Is it normal to get air in your skimmer/pump/filter circuit?

[discgolfdc]

Hi.

I've had a 24' above-ground pool now for a few years, and I'll never forget the day that I found TFP and the vast knowledge here, as that was when my completely-not-knowing-the-first-thing-about-pool-care rear got straightened out and haven't had problems since. So, hats off to this tremendous site!

For probably 2-3 years (that I can recall), I've noticed that I have a tendency to get air in my filtration circuit, and I'm not sure how or where it's getting in there. I can often open the air purge valve on the top of my filter housing and have it air out for a good 30 seconds before the water starts shooting out of it and close it.

It definitely has a tendency to do that when I connect the vacuum (just a simple Kontiki jammy with the little thing that goes in the skimmer basket that causes the "chugging" action), but even when it's not connected and we're just talking the pump running as a matter of routine.

The water level in the pool is definitely ample and sufficient, so there's no hiccups at the skimmer basket. I could definitely see how air would get in if it weren't.

I don't have any other wacky attachments to my circuit. Just skimmer basket --> pump --> filter --> return (photos included).

I am not noticing any water leaks anywhere, either.

If anyone has any insight as to how this might be happening or places to check or things that I could otherwise be doing to avoid or eliminate this, I'd be grateful.

Also, if this is normal behavior, it'd help me to know that, too!

Thank you all!! TFP rocks!

Jayson

 

[Texas Splash]

To a certain degree, a little air in the system is normal and expected. Since your waterline is well above the pump, water flows easily down to the pump itself. There is a chance however that that flex hose or connections may have a tiny air leak. It's also good to ensure the pump clear lid O-ring and drain plug seals are lubed as well. Other than that, a little air makes its way to the filter and we release it. As long as your pump doesn't lose prime and/or the water level in the pump pot doesn't drop significantly you should be fine. I typically "burp" my filter at least once a day.

 

[Pauls234]

Hey Jayson,

you are getting some air somewhere in the suction side, so check each of those connections. The hose and clamps are not ideal, I had similar l set up my first few years and when I switched to pvc and glued things together my very similar to your air in the system issues went away. I used flex pvc and added union ball valves so it was easy to disconnect things and bring in for winter.

A few other simpler things you can do that are easier than re-plumbing your system:

Remove pump lid, re lube o ring and wipe the surface area where o ring contacts pump in case something small is preventing a good seal. When you put the lid back on, give it a good tap around the edges which can help it seal better. Once I replumbed it was almost always the lid that was the culprit.

I haven't tried this myself, but have heard of others putting shaving cream around the union where hose goes into the pump, run pump on high then turn it off and see if you see any water shoot out (shaving cream supposedly makes it easier to see) and if not, then move to the next connection.

I've done this without the shaving cream, just looking for a little water to spurt out with naked eye.

Just be deliberate in checking that suction side and its connections.

 

[discgolfdc]

To a certain degree, a little air in the system is normal and expected. Since your waterline is well above the pump, water flows easily down to the pump itself. There is a chance however that that flex hose or connections may have a tiny air leak. It's also good to ensure the pump clear lid O-ring and drain plug seals are lubed as well. Other than that, a little air makes its way to the filter and we release it. As long as your pump doesn't lose prime and/or the water level in the pump pot doesn't drop significantly you should be fine. I typically "burp" my filter at least once a day.

I was thinking about putting some Molykote lubricant on the pump lid seal, and what you said makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Besides lubing orings, something to look at is the level of the pool's water in relation to the skimmer. It is possible that it is sucking in air from a low water level. I tend to not get issues when I keep the water at the top side screw on my skimmer, this is my 2nd pool and both pools act the same. 1/2 inch lower and I am hearing the sucking sound.

 

[discgolfdc]

Besides lubing orings, something to look at is the level of the pool's water in relation to the skimmer. It is possible that it is sucking in air from a low water level. I tend to not get issues when I keep the water at the top side screw on my skimmer, this is my 2nd pool and both pools act the same. 1/2 inch lower and I am hearing the sucking sound.

Yeah, the water level in the pool isn't in any danger of letting air down the skimmer. It's probably 1/2 to 3/4 of the way above the base skimmer line, so unless we have an earthquake here in Ohio , that's definitely not the issue, but I definitely appreciate your contributing.

 

[discgolfdc]

I've applied some Molykote 111 lubricant/sealant on the pump lid O-ring, the channel it sits in, and the lip that the O-ring mates to when the pump lid is secured, so I'll keep an eye on it and see if this helps with the issue or, at least, the amount of "burp" that has to happen. If not, I suppose I'll get it on some of the other seals (like at the discharge and at the filter housing drain), and rule those out.

The pump isn't running dry or anything. There's definitely water going into the pump bucket to be pumped to the filter, and the filter pressure isn't insane or anything (reads around 9-10). The pressure at the return is good and strong, so circulation is definitely happening. Just want to make sure I'm not putting my pump in danger of running dry or anything else.

Appreciate all the feedback!

 

[discgolfdc]

Hey Jayson,

you are getting some air somewhere in the suction side, so check each of those connections. The hose and clamps are not ideal, I had similar l set up my first few years and when I switched to pvc and glued things together my very similar to your air in the system issues went away. I used flex pvc and added union ball valves so it was easy to disconnect things and bring in for winter.

A few other simpler things you can do that are easier than re-plumbing your system:

Remove pump lid, re lube o ring and wipe the surface area where o ring contacts pump in case something small is preventing a good seal. When you put the lid back on, give it a good tap around the edges which can help it seal better. Once I replumbed it was almost always the lid that was the culprit.

I haven't tried this myself, but have heard of others putting shaving cream around the union where hose goes into the pump, run pump on high then turn it off and see if you see any water shoot out (shaving cream supposedly makes it easier to see) and if not, then move to the next connection.

I've done this without the shaving cream, just looking for a little water to spurt out with naked eye.

Just be deliberate in checking that suction side and its connections.

Hey, Paul.

Do you happen to have any photos of your pool's plumbing? I'd be curious to see how you did it with PVC and made it disconnectable.

If not, don't go out of your way to get them.

Thanks!

 

[Pauls234]

I'm out of town all this week, but happy to take/share pics when I'm home.

To get you started on thought process I used variations of these unions/valves - you glue pvc pipes in, and then when winter comes you just unscrew and break the union. May not look obvious from pics but that ridged looking circumference can just be unscrewed. With these also allows you to close valve right at skimmer/return/pump wherever you put them!

Pricey, they were more like $25 a few years ago, but they do the job and the next step up in quality will cost you like $70.

Amazon.com

 

[duraleigh]

A circulatory system operating properly should have NO air in it. Pool pumps move water but they don't move air.

EXCEPTION - In some low-speed VS pumps a single air bubble can form and stay (but not get bigger) in the clear plastic lid on the pump strainer. mas985 can explain why.

So, air in the system means you have a "hole(s)" in your system and should be fixed. This air leak is MOST often on the suction side but with the pump off, a pressure side leak can allow air in as well.

Air leaks are often difficult to find but normally easy to fix. An efficient circulatory system needs to have the "hole". sealed off.

 

[Decoy205]

When I had reg flex pool hoses I always had air in my pump. Once I hard plumbed it drastically changed. Those hoses stink and are failures waiting to happen.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

When I had reg flex pool hoses I always had air in my pump. Once I hard plumbed it drastically changed. Those hoses stink and are failures waiting to happen.

Funny, when I had flex hoses I never had air in the system but they used to become a fountain feature for my pool!

 

[Decoy205]

Funny, when I had flex hoses I never had air in the system but they used to become a fountain feature for my pool!

That happened twice to me too. That’s one of the aforementioned failures lol

 

[Pauls234]

Hey, Paul.

Do you happen to have any photos of your pool's plumbing? I'd be curious to see how you did it with PVC and made it disconnectable.

If not, don't go out of your way to get them.

Thanks!

Here are pics that should help. Put them on both ends of your suction and return lines and you have convenience to stop water flow at each place and then in winter just unscrew each side and bring them in. With your set up I'd just buy some flexible pvc pipe and use that to replace hoses.