Is a SWG switch worth it?

[mavrick6382]

I went out just now to increase the pump RPM to 1000, and noticed that the Generate light was not on. Not sure if it was because the RPM was too low (750 worked just fine this morning), or if it was in its resting period of the duty cycle. Nonetheless, I increased the pump RPM and the Generate light activated at 1,020; I increased it to 1,220.

As of this morning the Chlorine level was 7. I'll retest tomorrow morning and I'd assume that:
- If the level is >7, dial back the Chlorine Output Level, which is currently at 75%
- If the level is <7, dial up the Chlorine Output Level
* What is the standard % change recommended for adjusting? 5% increments? 10% increments?

@proavia - My PoolMath app has been updated to reflect tracking water temp, salt, CC, and CSI. I ran another test of FC and CC and here are the results:
FC = 9.5 (up 2.5 from about 4-5 hrs ago)
CC = 1.0

Looks like it is already producing too much. Should I reduce the Chlorine Output now or just wait until another reading tomorrow?

 

[jamesey]

I went out just now to increase the pump RPM to 1000, and noticed that the Generate light was not on. Not sure if it was because the RPM was too low (750 worked just fine this morning), or if it was in its resting period of the duty cycle. Nonetheless, I increased the pump RPM and the Generate light activated at 1,020; I increased it to 1,220.

As long as you didn't notice any errors or low flow light, then it's expected. Probably caught it during the 25% (assuming you still have it set to 75%) where it's not generating chlorine

As of this morning the Chlorine level was 7. I'll retest tomorrow morning and I'd assume that:
- If the level is >7, dial back the Chlorine Output Level, which is currently at 75%
- If the level is <7, dial up the Chlorine Output Level
* What is the standard % change recommended for adjusting? 5% increments? 10% increments?

There's no specific rule here. You'll have to do trial and error until you learn how it works with your unique pool. It'll take a few days to really dial it in and you'll get acclimated with how to adjust

Looks like it is already producing too much. Should I reduce the Chlorine Output now or just wait until another reading tomorrow?

Up to you. I'd personally wait the 24 hours to see how much chlorine the 75% really produced along with weather factors like exposure to the sun. That might help you with adjusting tomorrow

 

[mavrick6382]

As long as you didn't notice any errors or low flow light, then it's expected. Probably caught it during the 25% (assuming you still have it set to 75%) where it's not generating chlorine

No errors or anything, so probably caught it during 25%

There's no specific rule here. You'll have to do trial and error until you learn how it works with your unique pool. It'll take a few days to really dial it in and you'll get acclimated with how to adjust

Sounds good

Up to you. I'd personally wait the 24 hours to see how much chlorine the 75% really produced along with weather factors like exposure to the sun. That might help you with adjusting tomorrow

Great, I'll wait until tomorrow.

 

[mavrick6382]

All of this SWG setup got me thinking about my pump setup, especially since I am giving a go at running the pump 24/7 for the SWG. I've determined that the pump should be in the 1,000-1,200 RMP range for continuous use while generating chlorine via the SWG. However, my pool is older (built in the late 90's/early 2000's) and does not have pop up cleaners; I rely on a pool vacuum to clean floor debris. I have been using the Hayward Navigator XL that came with the house (I have rebuilt all of the internal parts at this point), but that is being replaced by a Hayward POOLCLEANER next week.

I ran a test and the current Hayward Nav vac will start moving at about 2K RPM (albeit very slowly). In order to use the vac, I will obviously need the pump to be running at a higher RPM for some period of time for the cleaning. Below are the existing settings I pulled from my Pentair (this was setup about 7 years ago by an installer, I have not touched the settings since):

Priming - Enabled, 0:11 max time, 0:20 delay (couldn't ID what the RPM setting was)
Antifreeze - Enabled, 1000 RPM, 40 degrees F
Min Speed - 450 RPM
Max Speed - 3450 RPM

Program 1 - 3450 RPM
Program 2 - 1500 RPM
Program 3 - 2350 RPM
Program 4 - 3110 RPM
*I can't figure out what these Programs are for

Speed 1 - Schedule, 3a-7a, 1000 RPM
Speed 2 - Manual, 1500 RPM
Speed 3 - Manual, 2350 RPM
Speed 4 - Schedule, 11p-3a, 3150 RPM
Speed 5-8 - Disabled

This would tell me that I am currently setup for a total of 8 hrs of pump run time & filtering. Looks like the first 4 hrs (11p-3a) are set at a higher RPM so that the vacuum can operate, and the last 4 hrs are set at a lower RPM for skimming.

Now that I have a SWG and plan to run that all the time, it seems I should have a setup like this:

Speed 1 - Manual, 1,000
Speed 2 - Manual, 1500
Speed 3 - Manual, 2350
Speed 4 - Manual 3150
*Idea here is to have these 4 speeds (which are accessible by buttons on the keypad) available as quick select options.

Schedule 5 - 11p-3a @ 3150 RPM (vacuuming)
Schedule 6 - 3a-11p @ 1220 RPM (to generate a little bit of chlorine all day/night)
Schedule 7 - Disabled
Schedule 8 - Disabled

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for a better setup?

 

[woodyp]

The RJ Plus can run in 5% increments.

 

[newdude]

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for a better setup?

I bet you can cut the vac schedule down a bunch, especially once all the spring crud stops falling. Try 2 hours a day, then 2 hour every other day and so on.

Full throttle for a little over 2 hours uses the same energy as 24 hours at 1200 RPMs, so you'll want to minimize the vac times.

As a pull it from my rear guess, the vac is costing you $40 a month in electricity. A $900 robot would only have to last 22.5 months of service to break even. With long AZ seasons, that's pretty much 2 years.

 

[jamesey]

What @Newdude said ^

Have you considered a robot?

 

[mavrick6382]

@jamesey - Yesterday you mentioned that you run your pump 24/7 at the lowest setting you can; I've had a couple of other people comment that they prefer this setup as well. The post above is recommending high RPM (what RPM btw?) for 1/4 of the time my pump currently runs. So what, run it from 3a-5a at 4,450 RPM? That's it?

I'm confused now!

I have not considered a robot. They seem pricy (well, pricier than a standard vacuum). I never looked into the benefits. I am like $3K into this whole SWG upgrade...one thing led to another led to another. I paved the pump area, had to have electrical work done to accommodate, bought the SWG, and replumbed the pump setup. I honestly didn't even want to buy the Poolvernuegen, but my Navigator has been acting up lately and I am tired of dealing with it.

 

[PoolStored]

The post above is recommending high RPM (what RPM btw?) for 1/4 of the time my pump currently runs.

Where do you read that? I don't read that...

I think we are all saying run 24/7 at low RPM. Even chlorination, less money than running high speed for a couple hours, and lots of filtering.

 

[mavrick6382]

Where do you read that? I don't read that...

I think we are all saying run 24/7 at low RPM. Even chlorination, less money than running high speed for a couple hours, and lots of filtering.

I misinterpreted this?

"I bet you can cut the vac schedule down a bunch, especially once all the spring crud stops falling. Try 2 hours a day, then 2 hour every other day and so on. Full throttle for a little over 2 hours uses the same energy as 24 hours at 1200 RPMs, so you'll want to minimize the vac times."

 

[mavrick6382]

What I am trying to confirm is how to manage schedules to accommodate both running the pump 24/7 at a low RPM, as well as needing to run at a higher RPM so that my vacuum actually moves.

It seems I need to have a Schedule that runs at higher RPM for the vac (maybe that is what they were referencing could be 2 hrs?), and another Schedule that runs at a lower RPM.

 

[newdude]

It seems I need to have a Schedule that runs at higher RPM for the vac

Correct. And the high speed vac program is expensive. 4 hours a day is probably much more than you actually need. So lower the vac time and/or frequency, to find the minimum time needed to vac. When you go too far and the pool is visibly dirty, add just a skootch of vac time back. Then run the low speed all the other times.

In a couple of weeks, try lowering the vac time again because less crud will be falling / blowing in the pool.

 

[jamesey]

The post above is recommending high RPM (what RPM btw?) for 1/4 of the time my pump currently runs.

I believe @Newdude is suggesting ways for you to save as much on your electric bill by minimizing the high RPMs in your schedule by slowly reducing or phasing it out. Are you getting enough debris in your pool every day to warrant 2 full hours of higher RPMs? If so, then yes, you can still run your pump 24/7 with a schedule like this:
Speed 1 - Low - 1000 rpms - 5am to 3am (22 hours)
Speed 2 - High - Enough rpms to efficiently run your vac - 3am to 5am (2 hours)

Full throttle for a little over 2 hours uses the same energy as 24 hours at 1200 RPMs, so you'll want to minimize the vac times.

As a pull it from my rear guess, the vac is costing you $40 a month in electricity. A $900 robot would only have to last 22.5 months of service to break even. With long AZ seasons, that's pretty much 2 years.

This is an extremely valid point that you should consider especially since you are about to upgrade to another cleaner for a pretty penny.

I am like $3K into this whole SWG upgrade...one thing led to another led to another.

Trust me, I feel you on this. I just went through this a month ago. Started with upgrading to a variable speed pump which led to a new SWG which led to a new robot vacuum, but for me, the convenience has been totally worth it.

 

[mavrick6382]

Correct. And the high speed vac program is expensive. 4 hours a day is probably much more than you actually need. So lower the vac time and/or frequency, to find the minimum time needed to vac. When you go too far and the pool is visibly dirty, add just a skootch of vac time back. Then run the low speed all the other times.

In a couple of weeks, try lowering the vac time again because less crud will be falling / blowing in the pool.

Makes sense, I'll give that a try. What RPM is recommended for the vac time frame?

 

[mavrick6382]

I believe @Newdude is suggesting ways for you to save as much on your electric bill by minimizing the high RPMs in your schedule by slowly reducing or phasing it out. Are you getting enough debris in your pool every day to warrant 2 full hours of higher RPMs? If so, then yes, you can still run your pump 24/7 with a schedule like this:
Speed 1 - Low - 1000 rpms - 5am to 3am (22 hours)
Speed 2 - High - Enough rpms to efficiently run your vac - 3am to 5am (2 hours)

Awesome, I'll give this a try

This is an extremely valid point that you should consider especially since you are about to upgrade to another cleaner for a pretty penny.


Trust me, I feel you on this. I just went through this a month ago. Started with upgrading to a variable speed pump which led to a new SWG which led to a new robot vacuum, but for me, the convenience has been totally worth it.

I am happy with how everything turned out and can't wait to reap the benefits of the new SWG. I have had FAR too many summer evenings of pouring more LC into my pool. It sucks.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I have the same pump you have, along with the same Poolvergnuegen 4x cleaner. It has been working flawlessly for about 7 years. Through a dedicated suction line, I run my pump at about 2500 rpm and get sufficient suction through the vacuum. I run the vacuum three to four hours every 2 to 3 days or so. It's not costing any additional money because I run my pump at 2500 rpm everyday for 3 to 4 hours in addition to the 3-4 hours I run at low speed.

I took a peek at the photo of your SWG install. Take a few minutes to flip your cell 180 degrees so the hump is facing down. This will help to prevent an air pocket from forming at the top of the cell exposing the plates. This is recommended in the instruction manual for VS pumps.

You've come a long way since your first post in this thread and have made the right decisions. Don't bang your head against the wall and second guess yourself.

 

[newdude]

What RPM is recommended for the vac time frame?

No two rigs are the same and it takes good old fashioned trial and (mostly) error to dial in. I'm not so much concerned of the RPMs, although any savings helps, but the runtime. 4 hours everyday is alot.

Find the lowest speed the cleaner works well and use that.

Then start dialing back the runtime until you prove the cleaner gets the whole pool well in 1.5 (?) hours. Even if it needs 3 hours, that's a 25% energy savings of full or mostly full throttle.

Then dial back the frequency. Every other day, twice a week, etc. Obviously everyone needs more for the spring, but it will taper off soon.

For reference, I manually vac my pool about once a week. Nobody is out there checking to see it's perfect at lunch on a Wednesday. Or 98.6% of the rest of the week. If there's some specs of sand and a leaf or two, the price of beer remains unchanged.

 

[mavrick6382]

Thanks all. I'll invert the cell (I had a feeling I needed to do that) and will play around with the pump speed and duration for the vac.

As for dialing in the SWG chlorine output, my chlorine went from 7 to 14.5 in the first 24 hrs; this is at 75% output. By how much should I drop that %?

 

[PoolStored]

As for dialing in the SWG chlorine output, my chlorine went from 7 to 14.5 in the first 24 hrs; this is at 75% output. By how much should I drop that %?

Drop it to 0. Let it come back down to top of target range for your CYA. Then try again with 25%. Wait a day and check. If it held, great. If not up 10%. If it rose, down 10%. Bracket until you get a fairly steady FC.

 

[newdude]

+1 step in immediately with LC if you find yourself anywhere near minimum while you dial it in.