Iron stains AA plus Metal Magic?

[mguzzy]

Yes its the same polyfill.... I used the guts of 10,000 stuffed animals that my dogs like to eviscerate, and it worked just fine.

hmm I would worry that poly fill wrapped cartridge filters would constrict the flow too much.. but maybe not. Give it a try. see what happens. And watch your pressure. When I did it I put it in my skimmer basket and removed the diverter so it didn't pull water from the bottom drain.

 

[setsailsoon]

Update:

• 9:00 am Reduced ph further to 7.0. FC still 4 ppm SWG has been off 2.5 days. We appear to lose about ~3 ppm FC daily.
• 12:30 pm Added .5 lb about hrs ago. Pump on with spillover running
• 2:00 pm Wow! What a difference. Stains are almost gone. PH did drop a little from AA addition and is down to 6.9. FC 1 ppm

Below is an "after 1.5 hr" treatment followed by before for the same area. The dark areas are shadows from the enclosure frame with shimmer effect.

 

[setsailsoon]

Update

5:30 pm Pool looks like new in 95% of the areas. Added another .5 lb AA. Continue to circulate

 

[sktn77a]

Ascorbic acid neutralizes the chlorine and vice versa. Keep an eye on the chlorine level.

 

[mguzzy]

Update

5:30 pm Pool looks like new in 95% of the areas. Added another .5 lb AA. Continue to circulate

Have you looked in your pipes (returns) and skimmer to see if they are clean? Did you have staining in there? I do on mine.

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks for the replies folks. Sktn, procedure requires I get down to less than 2 ppm FC. I ordered some polyquat 60 but didn't come yet... may need to get some at the pool store tomorrow. Mcguzzy, no staining in return pipes or skimmer basket. Seems it only stuck to the gemcoat finish. Amazing how quick this stuff worked just a few splotches that are not completely removed. I'll leave the pump running overnight then the big test is tomorrow to see if I can actually remove the iron in polyfill after adding the sequestrant. Fingers crossed! Below are photos after 5 pm. As with previous photos the dark squiggly lines are shadows of the frame enclosure.

Chris

 

[mguzzy]

You have me all excited to start dumping Fruit Fresh in my Pool!

 

[setsailsoon]

Update Day 2

• 3 pm Pool is 100% perfect. Looks brand new everywhere. PH still 6.9 added 35 oz 20 mule team Borax. FC less than .5 ppm
• 5 pm still looks perfect. pH 7.3 so added 30 oz more Borax. Finally Polyquat 60 came so I added 12 oz. Next step is sequestrant and Polyfill.

5 pm photos:

 

[revitup]

So I'm confused. I thought that if one was going to use polyfil to try to filter out iron, you could not use sequestrant. I thought if sequestrant was used to maintain the iron in suspension, the iron could not be filtered out. I thought that was the drawback to adding sequestrant, in addition to the bother and expense of having to continue to add it periodically. Am I mistaken?

 

[setsailsoon]

So I'm confused. I thought that if one was going to use polyfil to try to filter out iron, you could not use sequestrant. I thought if sequestrant was used to maintain the iron in suspension, the iron could not be filtered out. I thought that was the drawback to adding sequestrant, in addition to the bother and expense of having to continue to add it periodically. Am I mistaken?

Well sort of. There are two sequestrants on the market that claim the sequestrant will "crystallize" the iron so it can be trapped out in a 10 micron filter. There are lots of positive reviews indicating it works. But that could also be due to monthly maintenance additions of sequestrant. I'm doing this little test and documenting the results with photos here. If this works I should be able to trap the iron and not have to perform monthly maintenance dose. I can't find any independent test of the crystallizing phenomenon so I'm doing this test myself.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

Update Day 2

• 6:30 pm pH is 7.5. Ran for 15 min with spillover then added 32 oz sequestrant and added Polyfil to the skimmer. Will run overnight with pump on.

 

[setsailsoon]

So I'm confused. I thought that if one was going to use polyfil to try to filter out iron, you could not use sequestrant. I thought if sequestrant was used to maintain the iron in suspension, the iron could not be filtered out. I thought that was the drawback to adding sequestrant, in addition to the bother and expense of having to continue to add it periodically. Am I mistaken?

A little additional clarification. I've read a lot about polyfil for removing suspended iron particles that discolor the water. Seems to work great for that. In my case I have very low iron water from our municipal supply. I think through evaporation over the past 7 years and running generally high end of the pH range plus some excursions of high FC it seems to have precipitate and/or plated out on my pool finish. Not real unsightly but definitely visible. Scrubbing aggressively even with stainless steel brush wouldn't remove it. Vitamin C took it off effortlessly. So I followed a TFP "further reading" procedure to remove using AA followed by sequestrant and polyfil.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[markayash]

A little additional clarification. I've read a lot about polyfil for removing suspended iron particles that discolor the water. Seems to work great for that. In my case I have very low iron water from our municipal supply. I think through evaporation over the past 7 years and running generally high end of the pH range plus some excursions of high FC it seems to have precipitate and/or plated out on my pool finish. Not real unsightly but definitely visible. Scrubbing aggressively even with stainless steel brush wouldn't remove it. Vitamin C took it off effortlessly. So I followed a TFP "further reading" procedure to remove using AA followed by sequestrant and polyfil.

I hope this helps.

Chris

Jacks magic folks told me to use their filter fiber and the Pink stuff last time after the AA treatment and it would remove it. When I cleaned the filters a month later it looked like it caught a bunch of iron, had a lot of rust color junk
Just did another treatment 2 weeks ago, my pool was stained pretty bad, I used metal out and Jacks filter fiber and my pressure has started to climb after 2 week. Will take them out and clean them this weekend and see how they look

I think what brought mine back was letting my PH climb back up to 7.8 range, seems several people have said kee it around 7.2 or 7.4 but the pool looks a lot better. Still have a few spots and might do it again in the spring

 

[setsailsoon]

Update: Day 3

• 9:00 am Pool still looks crystal clear and brand new finish look in 100% of the area. Polyfil has trapped the morning surface bugs plus a lot of tiny reddish-brown specks. Looks like it could be iron oxide. Will keep watch and replace polyfil later today. May see if I can examine the specks a little closer and see if MA dissolves them.
• 6:00 pm pH 7.3 FC 1.5 CC 0.5

 

[setsailsoon]

Jacks magic folks told me to use their filter fiber and the Pink stuff last time after the AA treatment and it would remove it. When I cleaned the filters a month later it looked like it caught a bunch of iron, had a lot of rust color junk
Just did another treatment 2 weeks ago, my pool was stained pretty bad, I used metal out and Jacks filter fiber and my pressure has started to climb after 2 week. Will take them out and clean them this weekend and see how they look

I think what brought mine back was letting my PH climb back up to 7.8 range, seems several people have said kee it around 7.2 or 7.4 but the pool looks a lot better. Still have a few spots and might do it again in the spring

Mark,

Thanks for this info. I've had my pH in the high end of the range most of the 7 years since it was built. I'm sure it was a contributing factor. We had no staining until about 2 years ago which was also a year before I converted to swg. It was barely noticeable at first then gradually got a little more pronounced in the very shallow area top of the steps. So I think iron level increased somehow. Could have been evaporation or maybe from salt addition but I've only added Morton's and Diamond brand. Both seem to have good reviews here.

Chris

 

[markayash]

Mark,

Thanks for this info. I've had my pH in the high end of the range most of the 7 years since it was built. I'm sure it was a contributing factor. We had no staining until about 2 years ago which was also a year before I converted to swg. It was barely noticeable at first then gradually got a little more pronounced in the very shallow area top of the steps. So I think iron level increased somehow. Could have been evaporation or maybe from salt addition but I've only added Morton's and Diamond brand. Both seem to have good reviews here.

Chris

Interesting, I converted earlier this year and mine got a lot worse. Maybe due to PH, I learned here that tablets help keep the PH down so will have to watch it more.
I never added acid until this year either.

 

[setsailsoon]

Interesting, I converted earlier this year and mine got a lot worse. Maybe due to PH, I learned here that tablets help keep the PH down so will have to watch it more.
I never added acid until this year either.

Yep, tablets are about 50% CYA which is very acidic so were just adding a different kind of acid. I added borates to help stabilize the pH with great success but stabilizes at the high end of the range. Acid additions only required every 7-10 days and way less... about 30 oz at a time. pH runs 7.7-7.9 most of the time and never above 8.0. Also, I've had some periods where FC creeps up to 10 ppm recently.

Chris

 

[markayash]

I added some borates, maybe will look at adding more.
I will have to go back and look but bought a small bag and also since have learned my 18k pool is closer to 28k

 

[setsailsoon]

I added some borates, maybe will look at adding more.
I will have to go back and look but bought a small bag and also since have learned my 18k pool is closer to 28k

Wow! That's a big difference. Only thing I don't like about borates is there's only a strip test and it's pretty difficult to read for me. @JoyfulNoise has documented a way to test using commonly available reagents but I haven't tried it. I think anything over about 25 ppm works pretty well and I started with 50 (accidentally).

 

[markayash]

Wow! That's a big difference. Only thing I don't like about borates is there's only a strip test and it's pretty difficult to read for me. @JoyfulNoise has documented a way to test using commonly available reagents but I haven't tried it. I think anything over about 25 ppm works pretty well and I started with 50 (accidentally).

I will look for that..I added borox before I drained and lowered my CYA and had that problem..Threw the strips away because I had no clue what they showed