I'm a long time pool owner and at my wits end trying to get my pool in shape!

ImDudelin

Well-known member
Some background - 24,500 gal 40 year old in-ground pool. About 3 years ago part of pump system developed a crack/leak. Had to replace all including basket. Had a 1 hp single speed "forever"; bought a Pentair 1.5 variable. That's when my problems began! I considered a 3 hp, but read that cannot use with my 1.5" piping (= mistake). I learned fairly quickly that once my Nautilus 48 DE filter started to get a bit dirty, the pool filter pressure would rise and my Polaris 360 would slow down and water circulation would drop so much that i couldn't keep my pool clean. In the past, I would only have to clean the DE twice or so a year. No more. Now its doubled. I later learned what a med-head and a hi-head pump is. I've done nothing but struggle with this pump since then. It has no oomph, and Pentair is of no help; the dealer has closed long ago.
My problem is that it's gotten much worse!!! I've been having an associated issue for months. What happens is that I clean the filter and set my Polaris pressure at about 53 lbs. After a few days of running the pump a few hours a day. the water pressure on my 360 drops to below 40 lbs. I cleaned the filter, shocked w/3 gal on Saturday, June 29. Today is Wednesday the 3rd. (I had cleaned it two weeks before on 6-16). I went out and the sweep gauge was on close to zero I opened the Ortega diverter valve all the way; very little change. I turned off the pump. Did some other things for 20-30 minutes. Went back, turned on the pump, the gauge went up to almost 70 lbs. I halfway expected this; happens all the time, more so the past several months. But then, in 5 or 10 minutes, it starts dropping again. went down to about 55. One hour later, down to below 40 lbs. Tank pressure at about 16-17 lbs.
In most past years, when pool started looking green, tank at 20-24lb, I would clean the filter with hose. Reassemble, prime tank, gauge would read 8-9 lbs. add DE to skimmer, 9 lb. Turn on sweep. Diverter valve from 12:00 to about 8:30 to 9 (6=wide open); tank pressure = 11 when first cleaned.
What have I tried? I had to replace the Ortega diverter valve last year. I thought I was getting OEM. It wasn't. After a few tries, I was able to use outside cover only and make it work. Not the problem. I noticed the sweep hose metal screen clogged up a couple times. A tear in the filter grid? Couldn't find one. No. Not the problem. I have noticed sometimes, a lot of DE on the bottom of the tank. I've tried 8 and 7 lbs. I have noticed like fine sand laying on the steps. Its been in the pool for months, or more. Can't seem to get it all out
I don't understand. Water comes out of the tank to a tee (which has a diverter valve) goes to the pool outlets and the sweep. Why does sweep water pressure drop .to almost nothing when the tank pressure isn't that high? The pool is green, but not that bad. I've always been able to clear it up. Not lately.
 
Welcome to TFP! :wave: You are investing a lot of time and attention to the mechanical aspects of your water flow issues, and perhaps it is something mechanically related. But I would first encourage you to post a full set of water test results because we have found that in many cases, an excessive organic matter load in the water/filter can drastically effect the performance of your equipment.

Can you post a full set of water test results?
 
Somewhat difficult for me. I have a liquid test kit w/6 bottles. I've never had to do all the tests, for years. I do the chlorine level, and check/add muriatic acid as needed. My best bet is to go to Leslie's Pool with a water sample for a full set. I will try to do that this pm. Heat wave here - + 110 and the 4th. I'm thinking it the filter grids. DE falling off when idle, going back on grid when turned on. I will try to post test results later today if at all possible...
 
I'm back, with results 07-04-24 3:30 PT
Free chlorine: 0.22
Total chlorine: 0.22
pH - 7.7
Total alkalinity - 53 (drained my pool 1-2 years ago)
Calcium hardness - 140
Cyanuric acid - 65
Iron - 0
Copper - 0.2
Phosphates - 256 (I anticipated this; back fence lined - Italian Cypress full grown)
TDS - ? - 0
 
So let's discuss those test results. First we know they are from the pool store. If you haven't seen here at TFP our comments about pool store testing (and advice) let me just some it up in one word - unreliable. You would think they should be accurate (they're a pool store), but 99% of the time they are not.

To play along with those results, "if" they were to be trusted as accurate, your FC level is extremely low which is why we can assume you already have algae in the water. You may not see green, but the organics are taking a heavy toll on your chlorine and equipment. That explains all the work you've been going through with no progress.

If there is any one thing you should do right now, it's get yourself a TF-100, TF Pro Series, or Taylor K-2006C test kit. Stay out of the pool store unless you just want to buy a toy or brush, but avoid their testing and advice. I'm going to post some links in the next post to help you.
 
Take a look at the links below. IMO, the TF-series kits are a better value, but you choose. Either way, you must have one of those kits to properly manage your water. Also be sure to bookmark the Pool Care Basics page for lots of great advice.


 
Last, take a moment to update your signature that should be visible at the bottom of each post. We refer to each to provide you with accurate replies related to your pool type and equipment.

 
For now, I would add nothing to the water except a gallon of liquid chlorine each day until you can get one of those kits. Once received, post a full set of your own numbers and we'll be able to guide you properly to clear & sanitary water.
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I have updated my signature (and avatar).; I've also studied the test kits. I can readily see that they are much more sophisticated than my current one I will have to put a Taylor into my budget asap. Mine I purchased not so long ago and it appears to to be an upgraded standard one. One small, one large tube; tests chlorine, bromide, acid demand, total alkalinity, and CYA.
You also suggested putting in a gallon of liquid chlorine a day. My pool is shaded at about 3pm. I have a Pentair 1.5 hp variable w/3 timed settings, running at 2600 rpm, and a Polaris 360 not moving well <G>.
How many hours would you suggest me running the pump. Thanks....
 
Hi and welcome. All the above advice is pertinent to the last drop. Your pump wether it's 1.5 hp or 3 isn't your problem other then if you speak of efficiency and pump run time has nothing to do with the chlorination of the pool only if you have a chlorination system which is dependent on the filter pump which I haven't seen mentioned or did I miss it somewhere. If you had a salt (SWCG) system it be a figure dependent on the capability/ output X run time to achieve proper chlorination but then the rest of the pump time would be owner discretion to polish the water clarity. If you were using say liquid chlorine and had a perfect chemistry running it 30-45 minutes to mix it in would be enough chemically but not satisfactory possibly on clarity so to soon too debate that now. Firstly get the recommended kit, post a full set of test results and then the guidance here will lead you to how to bite the problem and keep it going but that's not to say you don't also have a mechanical issue along the line which will need to be determined as you move along.
 
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I am going to share a chart with you. Look at your CYA (Cyanuric acid - 65) to see what FC (Free chlorine: 0.22) you should have:
1720174771033.jpeg

Now that it is hoping the pool store got your CYA level any where near correct.

Any time your FC (Minimum & Target Range) gets below the minimum level for your CYA you risk algae.

Here are your steps to get your pool running trouble free and TFP clear:
-Your own test kit as seen above
-a gallon of liquid chlorine a day with the pump running to mix it in good.
-Reading all about how to do a SLAM as seen here: SLAM Process
-Brush the pool each day to help break the biofilm that forms with algae.

Let us know when your test kit gets there! We will get your pool TFP clear as seen here: How Clear is TFP Clear?

Kim :kim:
 
Thanks Wireform & Kimcats ! I've looked at the Slam and can understand a bit more re the Taylor kit. Unable to pull up the pool calculator re chlorine amount. Kit has moved to the top burner. Hoping they take PayPal...
I think its important to mention here - I have taken care of my pool for 35-40 years. The only things I have had to do was clean the DE filter when pressure too high, shock w/3 gallons, add acid as necessary. few minor repairs. Period. I have never had to add anything else for minerals etc. Algae controllers w/copper several times, years ago. That's it. Other than the problems I've mentioned, it's strange to me that I have two floaters in the pool with about 6 or 8 3" tabs, and one in skimmer basket, and why chlorine is almost nothing. (Shocked last Saturday.)
Thanks again....
 
You can put all the chlorine tabs in the world into a pool, but if your CYA is high enough, the FC is rendered basically useless.

Each tab is basically 3 parts chlorine, 2 parts CYA. The chlorine gets used up quickly (hours or a few days), but the CYA sticks around for many, many more months. "Shocking" as a regular step just helps to cover up the problem of not following FC/CYA Levels. Raise the FC significantly, knock back the algae a little, then rinse and repeat the problem.

It's a poor way of trying to take care of a pool, but that's not a slight against you. The "pool industry" has been pushing this BS method of pool care for a long time.
 
Hummm. I get that. I will say that prior to replacing pump with Pentair 1.5 2-3 years ago, I always used one floater w/tabs, shock two or three times a year. No big problems. My CYA was 100 +, which I've read when too high chlorine wouldn't work as well, but had to live with it. I'm comfortable with the Leslie's 65 CYA level. I check it occasionally. It's coming up; I drained the pool 1-2 years ago. Had to leave for 5-6 months and it got out of hand...
TF-100 test kit ordered - <G>....
 
TF-100 Kit finally arrived today, Saturday, late. My intentions now: DE filter/tank pressure is high = low water flow and Polaris 360 slow/no movement. I'm thinking that I will not be able to get a reliable water test in my green pool. Chlorine is low or almost none. Tomorrow/Sunday my plan is to clean/hose down the filter well again. It's somewhat of a job. I may do a quick test on the green water prior, but what for?
Clean filter, put together, prime. I bought 4 gal fresh 12% chlorine, DE, muriatic acid. I've became a bit unsure as I always used to add 9 lb DE. Past 2/3 years have reduced it to 7 or 8 (cans. I just now realize, years ! late, its not lbs, it is cans.) It's a Nautilus 48; manual says 4.8 lbs/10 1 lb coffee cans. I measured a small bucket out many years ago and fill it to marked line. I'm finding DE on the bottom of tank. Should there be any? OK +-7 cans de.
Shock w/3 gal check acid, run pump, Sunday ?hrs. Or do the Slam ??? BTW, by this time, pool is shaded....
Thanks ! Doug
 
-Check ph
If higher than 7.8 lower it with Muriatic acid. Target 7..2 or so
-Use Pool Math PoolMath to find out how much chlorine to add.

Here is the chart to use for a SLAM:
1720962270883.png

Test and keep at SLAM level as often as possible. Try to test and add chlorine at least every 2 hours when you are home.
 
I'm confused on the Slam chart. If CYA is 70, level = 28. Refers to how much chlorine to add I assume. How do I convert level ?
You are correct the FC needs to be "28" (using liquid chlorine) since your CYA is 70. There is no need to convert anything unless I misunderstood your original question.
 

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