IC-40 Communication Lost, but functioning properly

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B

beels

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2011
45
Plano, TX
Issue
IntelliChlor IC-40 is working properly, but ScreenLogic 2 is reporting “Chlorinator: Communication Lost.”

Equipment:
All Pentair, except Polaris 280 + Booster
IC-40
FNS Plus 60 sq ft DE filter
Master Temp 400K
i9+3 automation system
IntelliFlo variable Flow pump
Approx 15K gallons


Troubleshooting/Observations:
  • Power off/restart i9 twice.
  • Removed IC-40 cable from Load Center, and reinstalled. Cleaned cable pin contacts with wire brush and lubed.
  • Cleaned Cell. Wasn’t very dirty, but I acid-cleaned it anyway.
  • All lights on IC-40 appear normal. Good salt level, flow rate, two status lights indicating it’s operating at between 21-40% (I had set at 35% on Screenlogic).
  • Observed bubbles at closest pool return, which indicate it is chlorinating.

Please help me with some ideas. Thanks!
 
B,

If you use ScreenLogic and set your output percent to 100% does the IC40's lights change to indicate that the SWCG is changing in response to ScreenLogic's input?

If you then set ScreenLogic to 0% do the lights on the cell go to zero?

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
No, sorry, I forgot to mention that. I tried various setting on Screenlogic, such as different chlorination percentages and super-chlorination. The IC-40 does not respond and Screenlogic eventually resets to showing 0%.
 
B,

Assuming your pump is an IntelliFlo, go out and look at the display and make sure it says "Display Not Active"...

If the pump does not say Display Not Active, that means that the main com port on the EasyTouch is not working..

Also need to make sure you are not in the Service mode...

Tell us what you find..

Jim R.
 
Jim,
Thank for the responses. Yes, I have an IntelliFlo Variable Flow. It says Display Not Active, as expected, since IntelliTouch is in the normal "auto" mode, not "service" or "time out." Everything else about the installation is working normally. This system is about 7 years old.
Also, I have an IntelliTouch i9+3, not Easy Touch, if that matters.

Duane
 
Duane,

If you can control the pump from ScreenLogic, then that tells us that ScreenLogic is communicating with your IntelliTouch just fine and that the main Com port is ok,

That leaves the SWCG and the SWCG's power supply/surge card..

The surge card is what supplies the DC voltage to the cell as well as the communications link to the cell.

The surge card is plugged into the com port on the main card, so if someone has been in there messing around, they could have broken the connection...

How old is the cell?

The surge card is mounted to the back wall of the IntelliTouch and will look something like this..

New SWCG PCB.jpg

New SWCG PCB.jpg


I would make sure the surge card is connected to the com port on the main card..

If the cell is 7 years old, I would suspect it is bad, but there is just no way to tell for sure.

One other thing to check... Make sure the cell is enabled... See check box below..

Page 3 of 5.PNG

Page 3 of 5.PNG



Thanks,

Jim R.
 
HI Jim,

Yes, the IC-40 is enabled on the Screenlogic configuration.
The IC-40 is about 7 years old. I take it inside every year when not in use.
My surge card (how does it get that name?) wiring doesn't look disturbed. I am the only one who's been inside the load center since installation.
I removed the Com plugs and verified secure wiring.
I tried moving the IC-40 to one of the other Com ports; no change.

My card has a different part number (#521091). It has more status lights:
D6 pwr = green
D7 cell pwr = green
D1 = blinking out an apparently random red pattern with a lot of 6's. I watched it for awhile and got this (6,5,1,2,6,6,6,8,4,6,6,6,2,6,4,6,6,1,6....)
D2 = green
D3 = dead

[Edit: I did a Life Check on the cell and only the first light is lit, so only 2000 hours use after 7 years I guess.]

Duane
 
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Duane,

I have no clue why they call it the "surge" card unless it is a language thing... It is a power supply card with filters and regulators so I guess you could say it keeps any surges out of the voltage... :scratch:

I suggest that you call Pentair and see if they can decode the lights for you..

Please let us know what they have to say..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I called Pentair. First I spoke with an Automation guy, who had me move Comm connections around to troubleshoot the cable. I had already done this over the weekend, and also done continuity tests across all the Comm terminals. Comm ports seem fine.

Next, I spoke with an IntelliChlor person. She said since my IC-40 is still producing chlorine, it is most like a defective sensor on the flow switch, which communicates with the automation system. She said replacing the flow switch might solve my issue, but I may not want to invest that money due to the age of the cell (7 years).

I learned something about cell life. The actual usage is determined by hours that water travels across the blades. So if your pump is running, you are using hours on your cell. I always thought that you should apply the output percentage to the run-time hours (in my case 30-35% typically). She said this is not correct. While my cell life check is showing 2000 hours cell life used (actually, I guess between 2000-3999 hours since only the first light was lit), she was calculating closer to 8000 hours used. She said when cells get close to end-of-life, they've noted that the life check is not accurate.

My plan is to use the cell as is while it is still producing chlorine, but plan on replacing it next season.
 
beels said:
So if your pump is running, you are using hours on your cell.
Click to expand...
That is not true. If the cell is not producing chlorine, it is not consuming the metal on the plates. Cell hours are based on generating hours. Not pump run time hours.

There may be some degradation due to long term water flow but the primary reason for less generating hours is using acid to clean the cell.
 

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Well, as I said, it surely makes sense to me that the output percentage be taken into consideration to calculate Cell hours, but the Pentair "expert" said I had that wrong. I asked twice to ensure there was no misunderstanding. Sounds like they may have given me bad info.
 
If what that Pentair person said was true, many of our members whom run their pumps 24/7 365 days a year would have a SWCG failure each year. And that does not happen.
 
I was skeptical when Pentair tech support suggested replacing the IC-40 flow sensor since the unit seems to function properly in a stand-alone mode (detecting flow, measuring salinity, and producing chlorine), but I went ahead and replaced the flow sensor anyway. No improvement - the IC-40 functions the same as it did with the old flow sensor. So the IC-40 continues to function properly, but apparently cannot communicate with the IntelliTouch i9+3 automation system.

Is there any other troubleshooting I can do with this? Or do I just need to either replace the IC-40 or the surge card as my next step?
 
B,

I don't believe that Pentair has a real clue what the problem is.. They just know if you replace something in the circuit, you can often make enough difference to make it work.. The Initial part that seems to work about half the time, is the flow switch.. But, they have also had to replace the surge card (SWCG power supply) as well at the cell itself and the main board in the automation.

My "guess" is that the system is having race condition or a slight timing issue with the communication port, when reporting the salt level. Anything that effects the timing can "fix" the problem, even temperature, and often just rebooting the system.. I have ScreenLogic and find that if I watch the chlorination page, that the initial reading is zero (not blank) for about half a second and then the salt reading will show up. I've had it show zero two times in the past few years.. Both times cleared when I rebooted the cell.

View media item 1963
If Pentair sent you a flow switch, tell then it did not fix the problem and have then send you a new cell or whatever is next on their list.

If out of warranty it is just a pain, and I am not sure worth spending money on..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Thanks Jim. I'm out of warranty. This system has been working together for about 8 years.

I'm considering trying to replace the surge card, but I'm not sure what I need. Mine is #521091 and looks quite a bit more complex than the surge cards I see available. Will the #521593 or #521218 replace my #521091? They look much less complex. Here is my #521091; look at all that extra circuitry!

IMG_4016.jpg
 
Well, I finally resolved my IC40 Chlorinator communication issue!

I debated between rolling the dice on a new IC40 (now 8 years old, but still functioning just fine with the IC40 panel controls) or a replacement Surge card. The Surge card was the cheaper guess/attempt, though I felt a less likely culprit, given the age of the IC40. However, after seeing Jim's newer and simpler #521593 surge card, I started leaning toward pulling the trigger on one. Still not wanting to just throw new parts at a problem though, I thought I'd try doing a more thorough visual inspection on my existing #521091.

IMG_4947.jpg

Well! I put on my magnifying visor and in 2 seconds my attention was drawn to the northwest quadrant. What the heck is up with that variable resistor, RV4?! Well that certainly implicated the surge card. I briefly considered attempting to identify the failed component and replace it, but I didn't want to risk going down a rabbit hole of fixing that, then possibly having to perform additional troubleshooting if there was additional, invisible damage on a relatively inexpensive PCBA. For example, my old card has more complexity than the newer surge cards, with extra ICs and additional components, which may also be damaged. So I found an open box (or used) one on that popular auction site, popped it in and voila, I now have my IC40 comms and control back!

If you look at post #15 of this thread, there is another picture of my old surge card, but the red power cable is covering the view of the burnt resistor. This, and my weak eyesight, caused me to miss the burnt component initially. I will still look for a replacement component and see if that fixes it, just for fun, and I guess to have a spare.

It's so nice having the IC40 control back. My pool really requires about 32-35% on the IC40, but with the panel controls, I was having to run it at 40% for a week, then drop back to 20% for about a week to avoid over-chlorinating.
 
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B,

Good job on finding the burnt resistor... :thumleft:

I never worry about letting my FC go a little high... If my FC goes up because of a couple of cloudy days.. I just don't care. I'm just too lazy to adjust my output every week. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

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