Howdy from Phoenix, AZ

[passthebandaids]

How much draining am I talking? The entire 25k? I looked at Phoenix city website and the prices for water in that volume seemed to be pretty low, like low enough that makes me think I'm doing my math incorrectly.

According to this link, we're in the "middle season", which reads $3.60. It doesn't indicate $3.60 for what though, so I'm thinking it's $3.60/unit. 6 units is 4,488 gallons. That said, I'm having a hard time making sense of the information.

What are the effects of calcium scaling? This plaster pool was built in 1973. I'm wondering if I'm going to be due for some plaster repair soon regardless. I'm considering hiring someone to drain the pool for so I don't accidentally destroy my yard/house/neighborhood/marriage. Dude who replaced the PSI gauge when I bought the place said he'd drain the pool for $160.

 

[proavia]

I think about 80%-90% of the total volume.

Ask what EXACTLY he will do for $160. If it's just provide the sump pump, drain/refill and babysit the project - I think that's a little much. If he's going to add chemicals after the refill, ask EXACTLY what he intends to add - or if you can pick and choose. Does this include an acid wash also?

Can you post a picture of your pool and the equipment pad? You can use Photobucket to upload the pictures - then copy/paste the IMG code to your post here. Seeing the equipment may help us determine if you can easily attempt a drain yourself or if you might need hands-on assistance or possibly a sump pump (either rented from HD or bought from Harbor Freight) to drain. A close-up of the filter, pump/motor and valves will help determine exactly what you have (try to get pics of any labels with model numbers on them too).

How comfortable are you with attempting the drain yourself? One of the biggest concerns is to not let the plaster surface dry out too much or be exposed to our dry Arizona Heat for extended periods - other than that, it's pretty straight foward. At least in Chandler, I can drain directly to the sanitary sewer clean out in my front yard (and without a permit) - not sure of the PHX regulations.

 

[passthebandaids]

For $200 he'll add chems as well; unsure which chems or whether i can dictate those. Pics to come.

 

[kimkats]

ptb we can walk you through what you need to do if you want us to. Just let us know and we will have someone on hand to make sure you are taken care of (LOL that is because someone always seems to be online).

Kim:cat:

 

[proavia]

Personally, I'd add my own chemicals - that way I'm sure of the exact chemical and quantity (since you are unsure of what he might add).

After you post up some pics, we will get a better indication of your system. And possibly we can also save you the $160 to have someone else drain/fill for you. Since its going to be mid to upper 90's from Tuesday to Thursday, might be best to plan to drain starting Thursday late afternoon or on Friday - when the temps in PHX will be a bit lower. This might be one of the last "low" temperature windows we have until fall.

I did find an online City of Phoenix source that indicates it is preferable to drain into the sanitary sewer. They do not want you draining into the street or into the storm sewer system.
City of Phoenix - Draining and Backwashing Your Pool

If you do choose to do the drain yourself, we will be here to assist. With a little bit of planning its pretty easy. As Kim said: "...someone always seems to be online."

 

[passthebandaids]

Awesome, thanks Kim and Gene. Attached, you'll see the pics. This is in my backyard. I think that little black bolt is covering up the desired input to sanitary sewer, but I'm not sure. I think I recall the previous owner telling me that.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[JoyfulNoise]

awesome. will do on the results and the powder/pucks. good to have on standby for those three day weekends/etc.

I'll let others help you on clearing the pool. But I did want to say one thing since you mentioned all of the stabilized (solid) chlorine you have - do not store it in your garage or any place that has metal (like anywhere near your motorcycles). All solid forms of chlorine emit a small amount of chlorine gas as they break down over time. The containers they come in are designed not to be air-tight as the manufacturers don't want chlorine gas to build up in them. So, if you store them in you garage (as most people make the mistake of doing), you will slowly find all of the metal in your garage beginning to rust.

If you can afford it, get a small to medium sized plastic deck box, like the Sun Cast Resin boxes, and store them in there outside near the pool equipment pad. Muriatic acid should be stored separately from any chlorine products.

Good luck with your pool,

Matt

 

[pooldv]

That definitely looks like a plug for a sewer clean out.

 

[proavia]

Yup, that's a sewer cleanout. You could use that to drain - if you used a sump pump and watch the flow. And chance there may be a sewer clean out in the front yard, in the ground (maybe not in a pre-1973 house though).

Can you post a pic of the pipe connections at the filter - can't quite see them in the one you posted. I'd like to see the backwash valve, backwash line and other plumbing.

+1 on what Matt said about storing the solid chlorine products (ask me how I know...) - and acid too.

 

[passthebandaids]

Matt - wow, great advice. Thanks for saving my motorcycles from my ignorance.

Gene - sent you some PMs. Having real difficulty with pics here, despite having used photobucket to post on forums many, many times. Let me know if this one shows up alright for you. Basically it's an old (oooold) sand filter, R2D2 lookin thing that sits in the backyard, about 12 feet from that sewer cleanout hookup, and just around the corner from it. Nothing in the front yard. Happy to go out and take more specific pics. Let me know what's needed.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[proavia]

Yes, I can see that pic now - thanks. Also, viewing on my computer makes it easier to see what I was looking for - instead of on my tablet.

Anyway - it appears you do not have a multiport valve. Instead you have a standard push/pull backwash valve. Since this is the case, I don't think you can drain (or backwash) using your pool pump for an extended time as it may cause some sand filter issues. With a push/pull there is no drain to waste setting - only backwash or filter. Instead, possibly the best course of action might be to rent/buy a sump pump to drain the pool. I think you can drain directly to the cleanout with a sump pump. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to confirm/deny those ideas.

You may also wish to post a closer pic of the filter, maybe someone can identify exactly what make and model it is..... could help if you ever need to do maintenance on it.

Have you determined if you are going to attempt the drain or hire someone to do it for you? When is the planned date to drain?

 

[passthebandaids]

I'll take a look for the filter make/model tomorrow, and attach better pics.

I think I'm down to try doing it myself. I will go rent a sump pump at Home Depot. It's like $60/day. I guess I can grab it on Friday morning and should be done by the afternoon right? Looks like Friday will be the best day to do it if I start early in the morning.

 

[proavia]

Way to go on the DYI... and saving that 160-200 bucks has already paid for your TF100 XL and SpeedStir - with a little left over for some refreshing pool-side beverages.

While it's draining, you may want to use the fresh water hose to hose down the exposed plaster about every half hour during daylight and a couple times at night to prevent it from drying out. You can also clean the waterline tile while it's draining. Rinse and/or brush any muck off the walls/floor as it's draining too. The more gunk you can get out, the quicker the SLAM will be.

It might also be a good idea to test your fill water for CH and TA so you have baseline to work from (no need to test fill water for anything else). After it's full, about all you'll need on hand is bleach/chlorine - and some muriatic acid to adjust pH prior to your SLAM.

 

[kimkats]

You can buy a cheap sub pump from Harbor Freight for about the rental amount BUT it might not be as big or fast so........

I am so glad you are trying it yourself! We are over cheering you on!

Kim:cat:

 

[passthebandaids]

Is it as simple as hooking up a hose or something to the pump and sticking that hose in the pool, then hooking up something else as an output that connects from the pump to the sewer connection, then turning the thing on? And just making sure to 1. keep the walls moist while draining 2. not empty faster than the drain can handle

 

[triptyx]

That's pretty much my plan this weekend. I'll be starting the drain late day Friday to minimize sun exposure, I'm just not sure how long it'll take to fill again right now.

Pima County's brochure (I'm in the county, outside of Incorporated Tucson) regarding pool draining quotes a 15gpm limit on the sewer cleanout to avoid backing up the sewer, and that's dependent on other people's usage. I'm hoping to dechlorinate enough to drain it into the street at 60gpm (the submersible pump's max) instead to again - minimize exposure. Right now, I'm not happy with how fast the FC is coming down (Pima County says it needs to be < 1ppm to drain into the street, otherwise it must go into the sewer) so I'm hopeful it'll make it by Friday evening.

Check your local city/county (county only if you're not in the City Limits) for their requirements regarding draining a pool.

 

[jblizzle]

That is interesting what they say the FC limits are ... I have not seen that brochure. I too am in the county. Funny because the chlorine is going to disappear so fast once it hits the street and debris.

Luckily I have a small wash on my property that can handle my water.

 

[proavia]

Is it as simple as hooking up a hose or something to the pump and sticking that hose in the pool, then hooking up something else as an output that connects from the pump to the sewer connection, then turning the thing on? And just making sure to 1. keep the walls moist while draining 2. not empty faster than the drain can handle

Most sump pumps are submersible. You hook the output/drain hose to it, lower the pump into the deepest part of the pool, route the drain hose to the draining location and then plug the pump in to a 120 volt outlet.

1. Yes, I'd keep the exposed plaster damp - not sopping wet and not totally dry. Just spray it down maybe every 15-30 minutes based on how hot and how much direct sun exposure. You can also rinse the gunk off the walls as the pool is draining - getting more stuff out as the draining progresses.

2. Yes, you don't want the water to back up in the house. If it's going to do this, the first places to look is the showers or tubs.

 

[passthebandaids]

Double checked; do not have a bigger sewer cleanout port. That 2" one isn't going to handle the volume from that sump pump, and I don't want to drain to street if I can avoid it. I'm considering RO.

I'm going to level with you experts and ask you to do the same with me:

I read Pool School - Calcium Scaling - is it viable for me to avoid draining or RO right now, and simply try to drastically reduce my pH (in an attempt to avoid scaling)? If that's a viable option, I'll choose that and proceed with the SLAM, and do an RO treatment later to reduce CH.

So far we've been talking in terms of a drain being the only option - if there's an alternative, let me know. Thanks everyone.

Jason and Gene, you've both been very helpful. Thanks for all your time.

 

[SunDevil1]

For what it's worth, I drained and refilled my 30k gallon pool in January, also located within the city of Phoenix. My water bill was $160 higher than a normal month.