Homeowner Pool Build - Looking for some equipment guidance

[n4trombl]

New member to this forum, looking to get some advice and guidance on pool equipment for my own personal homeowner pool build. Slated for Gunite currently Sept 7th though I know we may slide depending on weather. That said, we are doing a freeform pool/spa with a few basic details that include:
-9' round spa with 4' spillover
-Currently deciding between 12 or 16 jets
-Pool is ~42' long x 15.5' wide with ~3.5' x ~5.5' sport pool
-Tanning Shelf with 3 LED Bubblers
-3 Waterfall Sheer Descents on Raised Beams (2 @ 24" ; 1 @ 36")
-2 Skimmers
-3 Lights total (2 Pool / 1 Spa)

Attached are a couple items that share more complete details.

But back to the reason for the post...I was looking to get a better idea of necessary equipment to properly support our designed setup. I know everyone has their preferences over brands, but was looking currently at either Hayward or Jandy. The below table includes mainly Hayward which was my initial list, but I have another friend who has mostly Jandy and is very pleased. Ultimately, I want to keep most everything same brand that I can for obvious reasons, but main concern surrounds Pumps.

Given that I am looking to do between 12-16 spa jets, 3 sheer descents, 3 bubblers, racer cleaner, do I have a fair start below (regardless of brand)? List does not include spa jets, returns, valves or drains, but should capture most everything else. But like I said, overseeing this build myself and have a pretty good start but any guidance is most appreciated.

Category	Item	Qty
Cooler	Glacier Pool Cooler	1​
Heater	Hayward H250FDN Heater	1​
Filter	Hayward C5030 Filter	1​
Pump	Hayward TriStar VS Variable Speed Pool Pump	1​
Secondary Pump/Booster Pump/Cleaner Pump	Hayward 3/4HP Booster Pump	1​
Blower	Hayward Spa Blower 2HP	1​
Pool Light	Hayward Color Logic 4.0	2​
Spa Light	Hayward Color Logic 4.0	1​
Bubbler	Pentair Colorvision LED Bubbler	3​
Waterfall	Hayward Sheer 500 2' or 3' (1" lip)	3​
Automation System	Hayward Omnilogic HLGBase	1​
Automatic/Racer Cleaner	Hayward TigerShark Inground Robotic Pool Cleaner	1​
Pool Skimmer Box	Hayward SkimmerMaster SP1072S2	2​
Auto Filler	Pentair Auto Filler with FlowMaster	1​
Auto Chlorinator	Hayward Auto Chlorinator	1​

 

[n4trombl]

Brand new to this site but looking for some good guidance related to doing my own homeowner pool build. We are scheduled for Gunite on Sept 7th (pending weather) and I have already gone through the design using Pool Studio, scheduled my Excavation & Rebar in prep for Gunite. In addition to that, I have also completed the layout based on the measurements and dimensions from Pool Studio. Was wondering for those who have done their own homeowner pool build (or those who may do excavation on here), is it enough for me to have the layout complete in the yard and provide you with basic detail on depths for certain parts including pool, benches, tanning shelf, and spa? I was starting to create a Page Layout in Pool Studio specific with dimensions and skimmer locations, etc, but wasn't sure if that would be fully necessary or not.

Furthermore, once we get to rebar, we will have ~18' of raised beam at 2 different heights for sheer descent features...is it as easy as me pre-identifying those or would plans be required for that work as well? I know it may seem silly because of course plans would make anyone's life easier, and I have no problem providing, was really just looking to see if they absolutely expect or not. I am currently working from home 100% given the current state and so I will be here when these activities take place which is why I was thinking I could direct them myself. But any previous experience that could be shared is appreciated!

 

[rcerf]

Looking at your equipment list , a few things jump out. For the heater I would upgrade from a 250,000 btu to a 400,000 btu. In the colder months it will heat the spa more efficiently. You don’t mention how many returns you’ll have , with a pool that size I would think a minimum of 4 returns are needed. With all your water features, decent s , bubblers , and spa jets , I wonder if one vs pump will be sufficient. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in on that. The other thing I would add is a swg that’s rated for twice the volume of your pool.

Ron

 

[n4trombl]

Ron,

Thanks for the reply! On the heater, this is definitely something I went back and forth with. But having your response makes that decision a little easier. Definitely would like to maximize usage and being that we are going 9' round the faster to heat the better. As for number of returns, apologies I did not include. So I know that the general PB standard is 4 for your average size pool. I was considering somewhere between 4-6. I am going with 2 skimmers, and while I am no expert when it comes to pool building, the additional plumbing cost associated with adding 1 or 2 returns (for a grand total of 5 or 6) surely cannot be that much. I'm essentially trying to get the most for my money since I am choosing the owner builder route. Also I am absolutely OK with having to go with an additional pump given the features we are including, in addition to the 4-6 returns for the pool.

Regarding the SWG, I have begun reading more and more about the debate between chlorine & SWG. I see from your signature that you are running SWG...any chance you could share your decision making process on that versus chlorine? I also see you are in Bastrop so you are dealing with mainly the same climate we've got over here north of Houston. Some of the pros that I've read and like include the obvious like the chlorine smell, somewhat simplified maintenance, skin feel. I think the only other concern(s) I have surround pool interior longevity going that route versus Chlorine.

Thanks again,
Nick

 

[rcerf]

Hi Nick ,

Unfortunately I found TFP when my build was almost complete. I made a lot of mistakes, but putting in a swg was not one of them. My sister has a pool with an swg , so she convinced me to put one in. My pb had speced a puck dispenser, with an option to upgrade to a swg integrated into my automation. I will tell you , I have two and a quarter inch Lueder stone coping around the spa that is starting to pit and degrade ; while the flagstone coping around the pool has not. Both were sealed with deckoshield from the start. Is it degrading from the salt , I have no idea , but what I will say is if I had to do it over again I would definitely go with the swg and use some other product around the spa. Remember, even if you go with chlorine ,over time you are going to have some salt buildup in your water. Just from a convenience factor, let alone how the water feels , makes the swg a no brainer in my opinion. As an example of the convenience factor , I went to buy some chlorine yesterday because I like to have some around “ just in case “ , and ended going to 3 different places before I found any , and they were almost out. Anyway, hope this helps.

Ron

 

[guinness]

OmniPL is the latest automation from Hayward and has a bundle including SWG, you might want to price that up versus the OmniLogic.

New Product: Hayward OmniPL HLBPLUS4W and HLBPRO4SW

Has anyone heard of this yet? The brochure is new and the only trace of its existence I can find: https://hayward-pool-assets.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/literature/omnipl-sellsheet-LITOMNIPL20.pdf It sounds like an updated but simpler Omni Logic. UPDATE: As of 5/11/2020 it appears to be...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[n4trombl]

Hi Nick ,

Unfortunately I found TFP when my build was almost complete. I made a lot of mistakes, but putting in a swg was not one of them. My sister has a pool with an swg , so she convinced me to put one in. My pb had speced a puck dispenser, with an option to upgrade to a swg integrated into my automation. I will tell you , I have two and a quarter inch Lueder stone coping around the spa that is starting to pit and degrade ; while the flagstone coping around the pool has not. Both were sealed with deckoshield from the start. Is it degrading from the salt , I have no idea , but what I will say is if I had to do it over again I would definitely go with the swg and use some other product around the spa. Remember, even if you go with chlorine ,over time you are going to have some salt buildup in your water. Just from a convenience factor, let alone how the water feels , makes the swg a no brainer in my opinion. As an example of the convenience factor , I went to buy some chlorine yesterday because I like to have some around “ just in case “ , and ended going to 3 different places before I found any , and they were almost out. Anyway, hope this helps.

Ron

Thanks for sharing Ron. That is very good insight for sure. The more and more I read, especially here on TFP, I am thinking that SWG is the way to go. Sounds like PBs generally seem to want to steer you in a different direction, but being that I'm acting as my own, with what I'm reading, I think I'd like to give the SWG a go. I can absolutely imagine that Chlorine would be tough to get hands on given the current environment.

 

[PoolBrews]

Have you thought about not putting in the chiller, and instead adding a screened enclosure? I've actually been amazed at how well that has reduced the water temp on my new pool here in FL. My last pool was in GA - no screened enclosure. Water temps would hit mid to high 90's in July, August, and September making the pool unusable for me. We ended up adding shade sails, and that helped quite a bit.

Fast forward to FL - we had our pool put in last year with a big screened enclosure. To date, the pool has never gotten over 89 degrees... mostly stays at 87-88 which feels perfect when it's 100 out. In addition the pool stays cleaner, and we have no bugs attacking the pool at night when the lights are on. In GA, the pool was a nightmare at night with hundreds of bugs attracted to the light.

The screen is an upfront cost, but then no ongoing cost. Just a thought!

 

[n4trombl]

Appreciate the insight @guinness. Any specific preference you have from an overall equipment perspective? Jandy, Pentair, Hayward? Just curious. As you saw from my list above, I built out with Hayward, but was also looking at Jandy.

 

[n4trombl]

Hey @PoolBrews thanks for the recommendation. Haven't actually thought about the screened enclosure actually...I'm not quite sure if the HOA allows it to be honest. We do have quite a few folks around here with pools but I don't believe I've seen anyone with a screened enclosure. The other thought I had which got me leaning towards a Chiller is the fact we get direct sun pretty much morning to night, and because apparently its way easier to just clear cut an entire area for building houses rather than leave trees, we've got zero shade. My decking/concrete guy did his own pool and he added on an AquaCool after the fact because he was having a similar issue (lives in the same neighborhood) which was what put me on this path to begin with. However, I was reading that this Glacier Pool Chiller is suppose to be much more efficient (and more affordable) versus something like the AquaCool because of how it actually cools the water.

 

[guinness]

Appreciate the insight @guinness. Any specific preference you have from an overall equipment perspective? Jandy, Pentair, Hayward? Just curious. As you saw from my list above, I built out with Hayward, but was also looking at Jandy.

That's a tough one to answer, it depends but I went w/ Pentair. I would say from an equipment perspective they're all good manufacturers so price and warranties factor into the decision. From an automation perspective, I would say Pentair & Hayward have more modern offerings than Jandy which is lagging behind, but I stand to be corrected. The problem is that when it comes to automation and the proprietary nature of the equipment you're mostly locked into a single manufacturer especially when it comes to VSP & SWG control, but not so much for heaters/coolers, features and lights (unless it's of the color changing variety).

 

[jark87]

I’m no equipment expert, but I can pass along some of my experience from the past 13 years. SWCG has been fantastic for us - no issues with any degradation from salt. I’ve learned from this site that it’s less of a concern than I originally thought. I can’t emphasize enough how enjoyable the low maintenance aspect is. Other than brushing and occasional filter cleaning, my only maintenance task is adding muratic acid 1x per week. That’s based on testing the water frequently, of course, which takes about 5 minutes.

We also “reclaimed” our pool during the hottest part of the summer when we added the Glacier chiller. Our water temp would hit mid-90s by this time of year and we just didn’t enjoy it. Because the Glacier is so efficient, I run it every day, all summer. My pool temp has maxed out at 82 this year. Got down to mid-70s last week with our “cold” front! I probably should have shut the chiller off, but wanted to see how low I could get the water temp, as our weather was unusually “cool” for August. I think you’ll be happy with the chiller.

 

[n4trombl]

@guinness Appreciated it. I guess initially I built out my list with Hayward as a friend of mine had them...but prior to finding TFP I was looking at the Automation UIs and Apps for all and reading reviews, and some of the more recent ones were back and forth. I come from IT background, so I can absolutely appreciate UI and experience, and I know all have their own quirks, really what is most important to me is stability. I know that we are at the mercy of the developers on that one, but something that handles everything we need and doesn't break every couple of days would be comforting. I can't recall for certain, but thought it was the Pentair iOS App where there were reviews of folks having connectivity issues which would definitely be a downer. But recent ones on Hayward seem to be pretty solid across the board.

 

[n4trombl]

@jark87 That is so excellent to hear! Both on the SWG & the Glacier Chiller. I was doing some YouTubing and whatnot but didn't find a TON on the Glacier Chiller but a few other forums and postings that I have read seemed to be very positive. It's great to hear someone who has first hand experience though! The fact that it is efficient is huge for us too, as I mentioned above, we are in direct sun ALL day so I absolutely expect the water to be hot without it. I see you have the Hayward H400 and you've got the built-in spa with your pool. Had a recommendation earlier to go with the 400K vs 250K for obvious quicker heat up reasons. I was leaning on the 250K for a bit of cost savings since we are Houston and it is warm quite a bit of the year, but would you second @rcerf recommendation of just going with the H400? Looks like you've got about 8k more in volume than I will have but from a cost/efficiency perspective, any thoughts & insight is appreciated.

 

[jark87]

We’ve never heated the pool - only the spa. The H400 works great for that, as we’ll have the spa temp up around 100 in about 15 minutes. I don’t recall if the heater was sized to be used with the pool or not, so I don’t know if we could have gone with a lower BTU heater just for the spa.

 

[jark87]

One other note on the Glacier. While our pool gets direct sun most of the day, our equipment (including chiller) is heavily shaded. The installer told me that would really help to keep the water cool as opposed to having the chiller also in direct sun. If your chiller will also get direct sun, you may want to consider some type of cover, if allowed by your HOA. You can probably get by with a smaller chiller model than ours, which is huge!

 

[n4trombl]

That makes sense for sure. I doubt we'd be ever heating the pool as well, only the spa. As for the install location of the chiller, the good news is our equipment will be on the side of the house that does get shade from about 12:30PM on as the house blocks that side. So I think we should be in good shape from that perspective as well, though I'm sure if my wife would like some type of cover for the equipment in general regardless. HOA shouldn't be an issue since we would keep it under or at our 6' fence height. I do see the Glacier GPC-25 is rated from 12-25K gallons, so sounds like that should work just fine. Thanks again

 

[n4trombl]

Thanks for all the input thus far. So I think I've got my bearings around potential Automation, Heater, and Chiller, as well as heavily leaning towards SWG. That said, I also think I am pretty solid on the Cartridge filtration system, however, my only still unknown or lack of understanding surrounds pump selection.

Given the volume, pool/spa combo, 2 skimmers, 4-6 returns, 6 total water features (3 bubblers & 3 sheers), and between 12-16 jets for the spa would I be potentially looking at 3 total pumps plus 1 blower for spa jets? Listed in my equipment I did have a TriStar VSP for the main, a Booster Pump which I assume is necessary for the racer cleaner, and the Blower for the Spa jets. That said, as @rcerf mentioned earlier not sure if one VSP would be sufficient. Anyone have a somewhat similar setup that could chime in? Or know of someone with a similar setup I could reach out to?

And as an offshoot of that, if there was a separate pump for the water features, does that get tied into the filtration? I could have sworn I've seen setups where it doesn't appear that the water features run through the filtration. While I know it is pulling water that most likely has been filtered at some point, is that generally the way it should be configured? Or are both viable? -Newbie question I'm sure

 

[guinness]

@n4trombl The manufacturers are still finding their feet when it comes to smartphones, voice assistants and home automation as it's not their core competency. In the past their automation systems were standalone with wired/wireless remote controls and then they bolted on systems like ScreenLogic, AquaConnect & iAquaLink to access home networks.

Newer systems like IntelliCenter and OmniLogic have improved the situation by integrating this into the main system, but the apps are still lacking in terms of usability, like the Pentair IntelliCenter app as you mentioned. Haven't used the Hayward apps but I've read they're confusing and difficult to use. The Jandy app is slow when used remotely. So no clear winner, but they all do their job at the end of the day.

Personally I would avoid the older systems where you have to buy an add-on system for connectivity simply because it's another point of failure and expensive at that. Interestingly the IntelliCenter and OmniLogic only have Ethernet and Wifi is only available by using a rebranded EnGenius wireless bridge.