Help with my pool lights......Wrong color showing!!!

[frankiecutz]

Ok so let me just run thru what's happening and then talk about my equipment (pics also provided) and what I've done so far to try and fix the issue. So first things first I'm using the Pentair Pool app to control my entire system. In the app I've got a "program" for my pool lights where I'm able to setup when they turn on and the colors being outputted. The issue is that the color I select from the app is not what is being outputted. The worse part about it is there is no pattern to this. It's not like when I select blue in the app the actual color outputted is always white. Or if I select green in the app the color outputted is always red. You get the picture. The colors are always just changing and basically outputting whatever they want. It's quite frustrating.
For equipment I'm running a Pentair Intelliflo 3 pump. This pump comes with 2 relays. There is a Pal Colortouch LED controller that is connected to Relay 1 (5 amp) via an electric outlet that is being supplied from the breaker. Now doing some quick reading of the manual, the way the LED controller is connected supports automation for clone mode. The lights themselves, only 2 at the moment, are connected at a junction box with the "main" wire going to the LED controller. The controller itself has dip switches to be used with different light manufactures. To make things even more frustrating I can't for the life of me figure out what lights I have installed. The contractor abandoned my project and won't even give me a part number and the local pool supply can't tell me what they are either. I know they are PAL lights but that's about it. A search of the part number on the lights themselves has given me nothing online.
So what have I done so far? Well I noticed the dip switches were not setup for PAL lights so I followed the instructions for changing them and set them up for PAL lights. This really did nothing for me and I have the same issue. Other than that I've just checked all my wiring and made sure everything is connected. I don't know if its correct, but at least it's connected. Next step will probably be to bypass the LED controller and connect one of the lights straight to the relay but I got a do some more research and make sure I don't mess anything up.

Any help will be appreciated.

Frankie

 

[ajw22]

Is this a new pool build?

Give us more history and the full story of how you got this pool and lights?

 

[ajw22]

Have you contacted PAL Lighting for support or a warranty claim?

Contact Us - PAL Lighting

pallighting.com

 

[ajw22]

You are in California. @Dirk has experience dealing with bad pool contractors. He may have some tips for you.

 

[Dirk]

Next step will probably be to bypass the LED controller and connect one of the lights straight to the relay but I got a do some more research and make sure I don't mess anything up.

That's what I would do.

The only thing I know about Pentair lights is how my light works. It's capable of a handful of colors and a handful of "light shows." Which gets selected is determined by a series of power on-offs. So, say I want blue, my system turns the light on and off X number of times. The red-white-blue show would be Y number of times, etc. (It's pretty barbaric, actually.)

Is that how your lights work, or does the LED controller communicate in some other way?

How long have the lights been installed? Are they under warranty?

You don't need for the contractor to be involved to get warranty service. So let's start with those questions first.

 

[frankiecutz]

Ok I'm going to try to answer all the questions and let everyone know where I'm at with this. So yes this is a new pool build. Didn't get too much into it, but basically my pool builder has abandoned my project and only installed 2 of the 4 lights promised, among all the other issues. The lights were installed about 6 months ago. He's been no help and I have no contact with him anymore. I'm currently going thru the CSLB and his bond company to recoup money I gave him and finish the project myself. As you could imagine it's been very frustrating and stressful. For controlling the lights I'm using my Pentair Pool app. The app indicates it's using the 5A relay on the pump and the builder created a "program" in the app to control the lights. I have the program running on a schedule but I can manually turn on. Going deeper into the program I'm able to Edit it and select single color or color show. (big ole pics below)
So where am I at currently? I've contacted PAL because I knew the lights were PAL and I was able to be helped in identifying what type of lights they are. Additionally, because I've got a controller that the lights are connected to via the pump relay, the tech was able to verify I have the controller dip switches in the correct position. Unfortunately I'm still having the same issue but now I'm suspecting the problem is between the pump's relay and the controller. According to the PAL tech, the Pentair pump relay must be programmed for Intellibrite or Globrite. I can't find anything online on how to program the relay and the app itself doesn't say anything about that either. Still doing some research and waiting for the PAL tech to get back to me.

 

[Dirk]

If you'd like some insights about how to deal with the contractor, let me know.

You missed my question about how the controller works the lights. Is it the ol' Pentair on-off-on-off-on-off scheme? Or something else?

Just know, that if you plan on working on the lights yourself, without giving the contractor a chance to fix them, you might lose the right to a claim against him. Again, if you want more details about that, let me know.

 

[frankiecutz]

If you'd like some insights about how to deal with the contractor, let me know.

You missed my question about how the controller works the lights. Is it the ol' Pentair on-off-on-off-on-off scheme? Or something else?

Just know, that if you plan on working on the lights yourself, without giving the contractor a chance to fix them, you might lose the right to a claim against him. Again, if you want more details about that, let me know.

The contractor has abandoned my project and is providing zero assistance. I've given him way too many chances to fix not just my lights but everything else with my project. I'm currently going thru the contractor's bond company to recoup some funds to be able to complete and correct my project. Additionally, we filed a claim thru the California State License Board. Both processes have been taking a while (about 6 months) but I feel like we're finally getting some traction. The CSLB sent an inspector over to check out my project and wrote up an "industry expert report" which contained photos of the work and an estimate of how much it would cost to complete/correct my project. I've submitted this to the bond company and I'm waiting on their response. The CSLB has told me this is the correct way to go about business and since the contractor has abandoned my project, I shouldn't let him try to fix anything, because it could affect my bond claim and the CSLB complaint. I'd definitely like a little more insight if you think there is more than we can do with the contractor.

So on to the lights. I'm using my Pentair pool app to control the lights. The lights themselves are connected to a PAL controller. The PAL controller is connected to the Pentair pump's 5V relay. I know what you're talking about with the off-on-off-on sequence. Yes I notice when I switch colors on the app, the lights will turn off-on a number of times and then go to the color. I've never counted how many times they cycle on and off before they settle on a color so I'll go check that out. The PAL tech emailed me back this morning and confirmed that the LED controller should be connected to the pump's 5V relay and that as long as all the wires are connected correctly it should work. The only thing they said is that the pump's relay itself must be programmed for lights. I've checked the app several times and the relay is setup for lights, so I hate assuming, but I'm guessing that means they are programed for lights. The tech did say that it could possibly be that the driver may not be properly programmed to accommodate the Pentair system. I'm still in talks with the PAL tech so I'll let y'all know how that goes.

 

[Dirk]

The contractor has abandoned my project and is providing zero assistance. I've given him way too many chances to fix not just my lights but everything else with my project. I'm currently going thru the contractor's bond company to recoup some funds to be able to complete and correct my project. Additionally, we filed a claim thru the California State License Board. Both processes have been taking a while (about 6 months) but I feel like we're finally getting some traction. The CSLB sent an inspector over to check out my project and wrote up an "industry expert report" which contained photos of the work and an estimate of how much it would cost to complete/correct my project. I've submitted this to the bond company and I'm waiting on their response. The CSLB has told me this is the correct way to go about business and since the contractor has abandoned my project, I shouldn't let him try to fix anything, because it could affect my bond claim and the CSLB complaint. I'd definitely like a little more insight if you think there is more than we can do with the contractor.

That's the opposite of what I think I know. I researched my situation and discovered that you need to write a "demand letter" to the contractor, informing him of what you want him to fix, and state he has "X" amount of time to fix it. You send that Certified Mail, to get a receipt of delivery. If he refuses, or ignores the letter, then you can sue him, and/or take action with the CSLB. Otherwise, he can claim you never gave him a chance to fix anything. If you've sent such a demand letter, and included in it all that needs to be stated, then you're fine, in that regard.

It was also my experience that the CSLB doesn't have authority to force the contractor to do anything. And I never got any sort of inspector from them. I had to get my repair estimate from a third party contractor. The bond company was of absolutely no help at all. I had to get my money from the contractor (which I did, eventually).

So your experience is completely different from mine (though the CSLB did have a hand in resolving my claim).

If this is a substantial amount of money, it's probably prudent to seek an attorney's services to determine if you're rights are fully protected using your MO. Otherwise, good luck, you're doing better with the CSLB than I ever did.

So on to the lights. I'm using my Pentair pool app to control the lights. The lights themselves are connected to a PAL controller. The PAL controller is connected to the Pentair pump's 5V relay. I know what you're talking about with the off-on-off-on sequence. Yes I notice when I switch colors on the app, the lights will turn off-on a number of times and then go to the color. I've never counted how many times they cycle on and off before they settle on a color so I'll go check that out. The PAL tech emailed me back this morning and confirmed that the LED controller should be connected to the pump's 5V relay and that as long as all the wires are connected correctly it should work. The only thing they said is that the pump's relay itself must be programmed for lights. I've checked the app several times and the relay is setup for lights, so I hate assuming, but I'm guessing that means they are programed for lights. The tech did say that it could possibly be that the driver may not be properly programmed to accommodate the Pentair system. I'm still in talks with the PAL tech so I'll let y'all know how that goes.

OK, sounds like you've got some good help from PAL. I don't know anything about your particular setup. Does the pump relay do the on-off-on-off switching? Or is that done with some other relay?

If the pump's relay is doing that, I was just going to suggest, as a troubleshooting step, to disconnect the lights from the pump relay and recreate the on-off-on-off manually. Then flip that new power source on-off-on-off to see if the lights respond correctly (you can find online how many on-offs are supposed to get you this color or that). If you can get the lights to color correctly like that, then you'd know it's the pump relay that is losing count. But if you get the same symptom on-off'ing manually, then you'd know it was the lights not responding correctly.

If it's not the pump relay on-off'ing, and it's some other relay, then you may or may not be able to troubleshoot this the same way by separating out that relay.

I hope that makes sense. That's all I can think of to try. Hopefully the PAL tech support will have a better suggestion.

 

[Dirk]

I have an IntelliBrite. It can run off my pool automation controller, which will do the on-off'ing, but it can also be controlled manually with a simple on-off switch. The owner manual supplied this table, for the manual switching. If your PAL light has the same option (the ability to be controlled automatically or manually), then maybe that can help your troubleshooting. This is from the IntelliBrite manual. I expect your light either uses the same scheme, or that its manual will have a similar table that depicts how your light responds to the on-off'ing: