Help with complete equipment replacement and plumbing ID

hockeyrcks9901

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Sep 26, 2018
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Palm Harbor, FL
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Any suggestions?

It does look like choices might be limited.

I've purchased from Inyo Pools and had good experiences in the past but am open to other vendors as well.

I know VS Pumps are great for energy savings and will most likely be going with the Pentair Intelliflo when I upgrade the pool pump but not sure if that's a good option for the spa Jets.
Replying to myself here with another thought: since I'm redoing the entire pool and spa equipment, could I go with a larger VS Pump and just use valves when needed to run the jets only when using the spa?

I think I should be able to do that. Something like this:
IMG_20210817_212004__01.jpg
 
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mas985

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Out of the Inyo pumps, the Super II is probably the best choice albeit an expensive one. You are getting close to the cost of a VS.


As for plumbing for a single pump, it is possible but you have to take a few precautions. Here is what I would suggest if you want to go this route.

1) Choose a high head, high HP VS pump such as the Intelliflo.
2) Combine both suction lines from the spa into a single 2 1/2" line to the pump.
3a) After the pump, plumb a 3-way valve to select or partially select the spa jets or normal path through the filter/heater. This valve would be setup to direct most of the flow to the spa jets and part of the flow, to the heat pump and filter.

Optionally

3b) Have all the flow go through the filter and pump a bypass on the heater only. For this method, you want the lowest head loss filter possible which is a large cartridge filter.

Without knowing for sure what is underground in the plumbing, it is hard to say which is going to work better. The problem with 3a is that you may need to redirect all the flow to the spa jets to get them to work properly and there may not be enough for the heater at the same time. The same issue with 3b except since you are recombining at the output of the heater, that may be enough for both.

But as you can see, you must have at least a partial bypass around the heater, that is the worst in terms of head loss.
 

hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Out of the Inyo pumps, the Super II is probably the best choice albeit an expensive one. You are getting close to the cost of a VS. That's kind of what I was thinking and why the single pump option came to mind. Then I've also got the addition valve costs needed and not sure which would end up costing more and actually work better.


As for plumbing for a single pump, it is possible but you have to take a few precautions. Here is what I would suggest if you want to go this route.

1) Choose a high head, high HP VS pump such as the Intelliflo.
2) Combine both suction lines from the spa into a single 2 1/2" line to the pump. Makes sense.
3a) After the pump, plumb a 3-way valve to select or partially select the spa jets or normal path through the filter/heater. This valve would be setup to direct most of the flow to the spa jets and part of the flow, to the heat pump and filter. Makes sense. I had drawn out a filter bypass but a heater bypass with a control valve to limit flow through it to be just enough to get the heater flow switch makes sense. Minimizing head loss.

Optionally

3b) Have all the flow go through the filter and pump a bypass on the heater only. For this method, you want the lowest head loss filter possible which is a large cartridge filter. That was the plan either way just for minimizing the amount of cleaning I have to do but also makes sense for this reason as well.

Without knowing for sure what is underground in the plumbing, it is hard to say which is going to work better. The problem with 3a is that you may need to redirect all the flow to the spa jets to get them to work properly and there may not be enough for the heater at the same time. The same issue with 3b except since you are recombining at the output of the heater, that may be enough for both.

But as you can see, you must have at least a partial bypass around the heater, that is the worst in terms of head loss.

Comments above. Got some thinking to do. This new DOE rule for pumps has definitely made this hard.
 

hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
So I ordered a Super 2 Pump and will install it and see how the jets work. Decided to stick with the two pump design.

Next upgrade will be a Raypak heat pump, Pentair VS Pump, and automation after that.

I have solar panels I brought from my last house that I may install too. They easily kept our last pool at 88 degrees well into the fall.
 

hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Well the Super 2 Pump was out of stock. Placed an order for a Tristar that actually looks like it has a higher head so we'll see.
 

hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
On the topic of filters: this pool currently has a TINY Harmsco catridge filter. I haven't looked up the model number but it's very small. It has a leak at the lid which I assume could be fixed by the gasket but I'd rather spend that money on a new filter.

I know bigger is better and I've looked at the Pentair C&C Plus 520, the Hayward Swimclear 425, and then the Waterway Crystal Water 525.

My gut tells me that any of these will work and to save the money and go for the Waterway but I'm always hesitant when going with an "off brand". Does anyone have any experience with these?
 

mas985

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I would not consider Waterway off brand. They have been around for a very long time (1973). I think any of those would be just fine.
 
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hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
What was the model# for the TriStar?
Mas,

I installed the new pump today and it looks like the flow from the jets will be awesome. Only one problem, it shoots water out of the air intake line...I'm not worried about actually having air, so I'm wondering if the easiest fix would be to just plug that line at the pad?
 

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mas985

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Plugging that line will remove the bubbles which makes the jet pulsate. They won't feel the same.

Usually when water comes out of the air line, it is due to a blockage in one of the jets. Remove all the fittings and the internal nozzles and flush the lines.
 

hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Plugging that line will remove the bubbles which makes the jet pulsate. They won't feel the same.

Usually when water comes out of the air line, it is due to a blockage in one of the jets. Remove all the fittings and the internal nozzles and flush the lines.

What's needed to remove the internals? Ratchet extension and I'm guessing about 3/4" socket?
 

mas985

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BTW, all the jets had their covers removed, correct? With any closed, that will also force water out the air pipe.
 

mas985

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Also, in some of the pictures above, it looked like some of the nozzles were missing. That can also cause water to travel up the air line.
 
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hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
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Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Also, in some of the pictures above, it looked like some of the nozzles were missing. That can also cause water to travel up the air line.
Do you have a link to replacements by chance? I feel like I'm googling the wrong thing. Currently putting the kids down for nap but after they're asleep I'll go see if I can remove a few and check them out.
 

mas985

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There are several different sizes and types so you really need to remove one to find out what it is.
 
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hockeyrcks9901

Active member
Sep 26, 2018
25
Palm Harbor, FL
Pool Size
15000
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Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
There are several different sizes and types so you really need to remove one to find out what it is.
So this is what came out of 3 of the jets.

IMG_20210829_152313.jpg
IMG_20210829_152310.jpg

Interestingly I did some other troubleshooting steps:
1. With all eyeballs and these parts removed, I get no water out of pad pipe, and good air bubbles in spa out of all 6 outlets. However, there's no concentration of the flow so it's not forceful like a jet should be.
2. With eyeballs in place and these parts removed, I get no air bubbles and water flows out of pipe at pad.
 

mas985

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Is there a part number printed on the jet? What is the diameter of the jet orifice (nearest 1/16th)?
 

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