Help Please - Aux Relays Not Working

[ogdento]

@81david when you checked each aux relay, only one was on at a time right? and have you checked the system transformer outputs? (unplug the 6-position power connector and test the center 2 pins with your meter set to AC volts... you should get 19-22ish)

@Jimrahbe any of three you suggested are possible... but if 81david had only one aux turned on at a time and still got 1.4 volts - assuming it's unlikely that all 4 relays are dead - then to me the most likely failures in order would be the board like @bradgray suggested (specifically the latches that control the drivers or the dc power chip - he said there was lightning), and then the transformer. The latches and DC power chip would be component-level checks on the board so we'll have him test the transformer first.

 

[81david]

When I tested I turned on all three aux buttons. I just retested using the top two terminals of each relay instead of ground bar and got 1.4mv on first two relays and 2mv on 3rd relays. They were all on though. Reading this after I tested and between client meetings. Will test again later one at a time like you said.

I have not checked the system transformer outlet - a bit of a novice when it comes to using the multimeter and testing. Can you provide a little more description or even a picture on where to locate? I know there are two transformers in bottom right of cabinet one larger than the other (I think one is for salt cell).

Thanks to all thus far for help in diagnosing and patience.

 

[ogdento]

the 24 volts that energizes the large omron relays - that you said none of which "click" when you enable them - also energizes the small on-board relays that run the heater and valves... so @81david one other thing you could do is see if the valve relays work.

you can do this with Valves A and B that you can configure in settings. we're not going to actually connect a valve, we just want to see if we can hear the relay energize. unplug all of your aux relays to rule out a shorted coil (take a pic or label them first!) and then set up the two Valves A and B so one is on Aux1 and the other on Aux2... then when you turn on Aux 1 or 2 you should hear a soft but audible click from the board when the relay energizes.

@81david i was typing this at the same time as your last reply so I'll get you some transformer test instructions... i think i need to snap some photos

 

[ogdento]

ok, so here are some transformer test steps... I've also added a link to Allen's additional transformer info from the wiki



The green circled connector comes from the system transformer... you've got a pair of blue, orange and red wires. If you pull that connector off, along the side you'll see the metal tabs that hold the individual connectors in the plastic housing. So do the following:
- power down the system (usually just a breaker you flip) and remove the system transformer connector from the board
- power the system back up (this will only power up the system transformer)
- Set your meter to AC volts and put the leads on the metal tabs for the two center orange wires (those are the 18vac wires). You should see 19-22 volts

more info about the transformer on the wiki page (and the relay driver info is above the transformer section):

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[81david]

the 24 volts that energizes the large omron relays - that you said none of which "click" when you enable them - also energizes the small on-board relays that run the heater and valves... so @81david one other thing you could do is see if the valve relays work.

you can do this with Valves A and B that you can configure in settings. we're not going to actually connect a valve, we just want to see if we can hear the relay energize. unplug all of your aux relays to rule out a shorted coil (take a pic or label them first!) and then set up the two Valves A and B so one is on Aux1 and the other on Aux2... then when you turn on Aux 1 or 2 you should hear a soft but audible click from the board when the relay energizes.

@81david i was typing this at the same time as your last reply so I'll get you some transformer test instructions... i think i need to snap some photos

Ok I will try your transformer test steps below when I get home.

Question about Valves A and B test you mention above: I already have two valves that automate the operation of spa and spillway. Will this affect those valves doing reprogramming?

 

[ogdento]

Well, I guess they could depending on what Aux 1 and Aux 2 are set to - I usually do it on a blank board and probably should have said to set the valves to an unused Aux, but let's just skip the valve test for now.

 

[81david]

ok, so here are some transformer test steps... I've also added a link to Allen's additional transformer info from the wiki

View attachment 643972

The green circled connector comes from the system transformer... you've got a pair of blue, orange and red wires. If you pull that connector off, along the side you'll see the metal tabs that hold the individual connectors in the plastic housing. So do the following:
- power down the system (usually just a breaker you flip) and remove the system transformer connector from the board
- power the system back up (this will only power up the system transformer)
- Set your meter to AC volts and put the leads on the metal tabs for the two center orange wires (those are the 18vac wires). You should see 19-22 volts

more info about the transformer on the wiki page (and the relay driver info is above the transformer section):

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

@ogdento rechecked the relays with one on at a time with my meter they red the same as before.

Tested the two orange wires for the transformer per your directions and they read 2.91 volts. See picture. Double checked that I was testing corrected by doing the other colored wire pairs and both 10volt and 24 volt read slightly above what they should be.

 

[ogdento]

Yeah, wow, the transformer is definitely bad.

Let's make sure you don't have shorted relay coils before you replace the transformer and blow the new one.

Set your meter to ohms (2nd to last setting on the right) and for each relay - with the relay not plugged into the board - put your leads on the screws where the wire going to the aux jack connects to the relay (polarity doesn't matter). You're looking for a non-zero reading, mine are around 300 ohms

I'll pm you an option about the transformer

 

[Jimrahbe]

David,

Sounds like the transformer is bad....

But... I suspect that something caused the transformer to go bad.. Basically sucking too much current through the 18 volt winding and damaging the transformer..

I would not want to replace the transformer and then just connect everything back up.. As that might damage the new transformer..

Let's see what Tom suggests... Calling @ogdento

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ogdento]

@Jimrahbe you reminded me we should check the rectifier too... I wrote a post on that a while ago, just gotta find it