Help me determine the right pool pump and SWCG combination

caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
First off. I am looking to convert my pool to a SWG pool. When I posted this last year I was told in this thread that I should consider a pool pump.
Totally New to and Curious about Chlorine Generators
Doing some research and calculations, for my area I would save $167 per year. My current pump is 1.5HP, my pool is ~20,000 and my pipe diameter is 1 and ½ inch. My average feet of head between all my skimmers and drains is ~68ft.
From here I am not sure what size or brand variable speed pump I would need. Can someone help?
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
12,783
Pleasanton, CA
$167 per year savings may not pay for a new pump if is a VS pump and you hire someone to install it. Were you planning to install this yourself?

My average feet of head between all my skimmers and drains is ~68ft.
How did you get to this number?

What do you pay for electricity?
 

caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
$167 per year savings may not pay for a new pump if is a VS pump and you hire someone to install it. Were you planning to install this yourself?



What do you pay for electricity?
Planning to install myself, we pay 10 cents per kWh
How did I get to this number? For my I calculated it by taking my current pumps wattage turning it to kWh multiplied by 6 hours a day times 180 days at 10 cents per kWh. For a VS pump I found a tool that calculated the monthly kWh rate of a VS pump for my size pool with 2 hours of vacuum time per day and 12 hours of other run time. from there i subtracted the two.

A 1.5 hp would pay for itself in 4 years. What I am trying to figure out is if that is even the right size.
 

caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
Ok, hold on, I just reviewed the other SWCG post and realized that IF i convert to SWCG I would need to run the pump for 8-12 hours a day which would significantly increase the cost of me running the current pump and a new VS pump would pay for itself in 2 years.

OK so with that out of the way, what brands and what size?
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
22,404
Laughlin, NV
A Pentair Intelliflo 011018 VS pump is the gold standard. But, if a warranty is important to you, it must be professionally installed to get the full warranty. A DIY install gets 60 days.

Another option would be a Pureline 2.7 hp from InyoPools. It is an off brand so buyer beware. It does have an 18 month warranty for DIY installs.

The reason I am pointing you towards the ~3hp VS pumps as you have a spa and it will take less electricity to run at normal flow rates.
 

caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
Sorry all, I prematurely posted. After doing more research I realized that my pool pump is probably ok for my current configuration, but not if i convert to a SWCG pool. Here is my question now... What combo pump and SWCG should I buy? Things I am thinking about...

1. What is a good VS pump and SWCG combo
2. In the winter I winterize my pool but can keep my Hot Tub open. Is it possible to use a 25000 to 40000 gallon SWCG system on a 600 gallon HT? or am I going to over chlorinate it?
3. If the VS pool pump has a timer on it, can the SWCG be run from that timer or does the SWCG need to have a dedicated timer?
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
22,404
Laughlin, NV
How do you isolate the hot tub from the pool system in the winter?

Unless you add automation, you will need a timer for the SWCG and the VS pump has an integral timer.

For your pool I would suggest one of the pumps shown above and a Circupool SWCG rated for 40K or greater.
 

caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
I isolate via a manual 3 way jandy valve. Water flows in and I can divert to either the HT, Pool or a % of both.

I currently have a timer I use for my current pump, I could just move it to the SWCG. The SWCG does not have its own internal timer, or does it not detect that the water is flowing and know to start chlorinating?
Can the SWCG run off of 230V?

I would not use the pump to run the spa jets, they run of a smaller pump, not sure it that matters to your response.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
22,404
Laughlin, NV
I still doubt you can completely isolate the spa and properly winterize the pool, but that is your issue to resolve. I assume you do as you say now?

You could use a smaller VS pump (~1.5 hp) if you are not using it to power the spa. It will take more electricity to pump the same rate as a 3 hp VS pump.

The SWCG's do not have timers built in. The flow switch in them is the secondary safety device. The primary is removing power from them when the pump is not operating. All SWCG's can operate on 230V.
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
12,783
Pleasanton, CA
So why is your pump not compatible with your SWCG? It can be wired in parallel with the pump power.

Also, above , my question was not on the wattage but on the head loss. How did you calculate the head loss?
 
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caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
I still doubt you can completely isolate the spa and properly winterize the pool, but that is your issue to resolve. I assume you do as you say now?

You could use a smaller VS pump (~1.5 hp) if you are not using it to power the spa. It will take more electricity to pump the same rate as a 3 hp VS pump.

The SWCG's do not have timers built in. The flow switch in them is the secondary safety device. The primary is removing power from them when the pump is not operating. All SWCG's can operate on 230V.
I can Isolate the spa because I seal off all returns, drain and skimmer on both ends.

Thanks on the 1.5HP, I only use the current 1.5HP to circulate the water in the pool and spa, it is not used to run the jets, that is a different smaller pump.

Thanks for the clarification on the SWCG, sounds like I would need to use the timer for that.
 
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caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
So why is your pump not compatible with your SWCG? It can be wired in parallel with the pump power.

Also, above , my question was not on the wattage but on the head loss. How did you calculate the head loss?
My current pump is compatible, however my understanding is that a SWCG requires 8 to 12 hours of run time. What I am not sure of is the pump speed, if I could use my current 1 speed pump with a SWCG and only run it 4 hours I think I would be ok.

Oh, head loss... I figured that out this way... each distance is estimated distance to the pump. Main Drain = 91 ft. West Skimmer = 77 ft, East skimmer = 58 ft. hot tub skimmer = 44 feet. Hot tub drain = 48 feet. Average is 67.5 feet leaving off the hot tub drain as I don't really use it. Actually its 75 feet because I just let the hot tub overflow into the main pool and usually do not use the skimmer or the hot tub drain.
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
12,783
Pleasanton, CA
A SWCG only requires 8-12 hours of run time if you get one that is too small for your pool. A T-15 Goldline will put about .34 ppm per hour in your pool. Most pools require 1-2 ppm per day, sometimes less. Right now I run for 4 hrs per day and the SWG is at 60%. At most you would probably need 6 hrs of run time. I put together some economics that compare the various pumps with 6 hours of run time. You can download a spreadsheet to do your own analysis with the link in my signature. I also put in your pump with a two speed motor change for comparison. Basically, the cheapest VS takes about 24 months (8 years) before it is more cost effective than the single speed. Going to a two speed, makes it 48 months (16 years) of operation. But this assumes your energy costs will not change.




Just for future reference, pipe length <> head loss. Head loss is dependent on the flow rate through the plumbing. The pipe lengths are part of the formula but there are several other factors. Also, it isn't just the pipe that causes head loss. Pipe fittings, filter, heater, valves, MD grates, skimmers, return eyeballs, etc. all come into play. Not simple to calculate.
 
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caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
A SWCG only requires 8-12 hours of run time if you get one that is too small for your pool. A T-15 Goldline will put about .34 ppm per hour in your pool. Most pools require 1-2 ppm per day, sometimes less. Right now I run for 4 hrs per day and the SWG is at 60%. At most you would probably need 6 hrs of run time. I put together some economics that compare the various pumps with 6 hours of run time. You can download a spreadsheet to do your own analysis with the link in my signature. I also put in your pump with a two speed motor change for comparison. Basically, the cheapest VS takes about 24 months (8 years) before it is more cost effective than the single speed. Going to a two speed, makes it 48 months (16 years) of operation. But this assumes your energy costs will not change.




Just for future reference, pipe length <> head loss. Head loss is dependent on the flow rate through the plumbing. The pipe lengths are part of the formula but there are several other factors. Also, it isn't just the pipe that causes head loss. Pipe fittings, filter, heater, valves, MD grates, skimmers, return eyeballs, etc. all come into play. Not simple to calculate.
Hey thank you... Question on the T-15 goldline and it putting .34 ppm per hour in your pool. Is that with my current 1.5HP pump?
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
12,783
Pleasanton, CA
The pump is irrelevant to the SWG.

Most all SWGs have some form of measuring salt level.

Yes, that is the SWG cell that I was referring to. Hayward makes multiple controllers for that cell. You can also get a full controller for the pump, landscape lighting, pool lights, etc that will also support the SWG. Pentair has similar products.

Pool Automation | In Ground Pool Automation - Hayward Pool Products

Pool Automation

Another up and comer getting a fan base:

CircuPool Salt Pool Systems, Chlorinators, Replacement Cells, and Parts
 
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setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
1,572
Stuart/FL
Cal,

One thing to consider is that you're going from a SWG sized for 40,000 gal and the output will quickly over-dose your 600 gal spa. There are a couple of ways to deal with this:
  • Run at very low power % and run time
  • Allow your FC to swing more than normal but with safe disinfection levels and run the SWG less than every day
  • Reduce the size from TFP recommended 2x (not recommended as this seems like the tail wagging the dog)
We have a smaller pool so the problem was not as dramatic for us but it was a concern since we use the SPA a lot at night and the pool a lot during the day. We have automation so we just control independently with a spare relay. Some form of 3rd party automation might be very helpful to you.

I hope this helps.

Chris
 

caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
The pump is irrelevant to the SWG.

Most all SWGs have some form of measuring salt level.

Yes, that is the SWG cell that I was referring to. Hayward makes multiple controllers for that cell. You can also get a full controller for the pump, landscape lighting, pool lights, etc that will also support the SWG. Pentair has similar products.

Pool Automation | In Ground Pool Automation - Hayward Pool Products

Pool Automation

Another up and comer getting a fan base:

CircuPool Salt Pool Systems, Chlorinators, Replacement Cells, and Parts
Thanks, what I meant when asking if the salt meter was important was, do I really need to buy it? Takes the price over $1000, what doe sit do?
Automation??!? Mind blown, I need to check into this...
Question on the cell, when it goes out, can you replace the cell part without removing pipe? Or do I need to install it in such a way that the pipe can be separated easily so the cell can be removed.
Thanks again!!
 

caliskier

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
329
Oklahoma City, OK
Cal,

One thing to consider is that you're going from a SWG sized for 40,000 gal and the output will quickly over-dose your 600 gal spa. There are a couple of ways to deal with this:
  • Run at very low power % and run time
  • Allow your FC to swing more than normal but with safe disinfection levels and run the SWG less than every day
  • Reduce the size from TFP recommended 2x (not recommended as this seems like the tail wagging the dog)
We have a smaller pool so the problem was not as dramatic for us but it was a concern since we use the SPA a lot at night and the pool a lot during the day. We have automation so we just control independently with a spare relay. Some form of 3rd party automation might be very helpful to you.

I hope this helps.

Chris
Thanks for verifying, that was what I was wondering, if I could just reduce the run time and / or power. I need to check into the automation that you and MAS985 are talking about. My pool is 30 years old and I just know about and how to use the equipment it has.
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
12,783
Pleasanton, CA
Most automation systems these days will have separate SWG settings for the spa and pool. That is one of the advantages of having an integrated system rather than a stand alone SWG.