Heat pump dealers for direct purchase?

[ajw22]

So. We are still throwing around propane vs electric. I went on the Pentair calculator and got these results. A little bias because they want to sell an electric heat pump?

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The math behind the Pentair calculator is honest. You need to provide your electrical cost/kWh and propane gas cost. Get those off and the bias is your doing.

 

[l1ltaral1l]

Thanks! The electric rate they provided ($0.13) was only off by a penny, so I let it go (mine came out to $0.12). The propane I let ride - not sure what it is but have a message to a friend who heats using it.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks! The electric rate they provided ($0.13) was only off by a penny, so I let it go (mine came out to $0.12). The propane I let ride - not sure what it is but have a message to a friend who heats using it.

That the fully loaded electric rate with distribution and other fees included?

 

[l1ltaral1l]

Propane was $0.29 off, so I adjusted. The only thing I wasn't sure of was the heat pump run time. It was at 16 hrs (which seems high? But not sure). I changed it to 8 and these were the updated:

 

[l1ltaral1l]

That the fully loaded electric rate with distribution and other fees included?

Yes (at least I think!) I took my total bill and divided it by the kWh. Our distributor is PP&L but our supplier is another company (we can chose the supplier now so I am always price shopping). But my brain is mush, so I could have this way wrong...

 

[ajw22]

The big difference in costs is in the shoulder months - April, May, October. This is also where the HP may not keep up with the heat needs.

You have to decide how much you are willing to spend to swim at those times.

 

[Newdude]

Take your total electric bill and divide it by the KW used to get your true price per KW. Supposedly the Pentair site is actually really good estimating how many KW you will need, but they can't possibly keep tabs on 20 electric companies' extra charges for the whole country. And the same goes for propane. Call a local company and get thier current price for propane and use that for comparison. Year over year it can change greatly with both energy markets so volitle. My heat pump would cost about 2/3 as much to use today thanks to all the people who went solar in my area. We have to buy less overall power from the midwest, and that power was outrageously expensive.

 

[Newdude]

And also, check the tier pricing that most utilites use. If the heat pump bumps you into the next bracket, the energy used in that bracket can cost alot more than your current mid-residential rates. This calculation may only be caught after the fact and may be a deal breaker. Conversley, propane *may* be cheaper to buy more at a time. My home heating oil has 2 prices, +/- 200 @ gallons. It costs the company Lot of time and fuel to make many small deliveries and sometimes they pass that savings along to the customer who has a big tank.

 

[wireform]

You can do what you want as you're spending your own money. All I can tell you is I have one pool 18000 gallon gunite that is currently heat pump and are converting to NG because as it has been said before. It's great at going from warmish to good and warm and that's basically summer months. In the shoulder season say mid April till beginning November outside the warm summer months it'll struggle. So now you have to run the pump more so you can run the heat pump more and at the end not be satisfied. NG and LP both have much better capabilities. Say you weren't going to spend sunday home in October and then plans canceled, you won't be able to use the pool if the water cooled too much because the heat pump will not chew it. NG and LP bite the cold water much quicker.

 

[Newdude]

Say you weren't going to spend sunday home in October and then plans canceled, you won't be able to use the pool if the water cooled too much because the heat pump will not chew it. NG and LP bite the cold water much quicker

This was exactly our struggle. When we were free it was unusually cold that weekend and didn’t work well. Or plans changed last minute either way and we either paid to heat a unused pool, or couldn’t warm it fast enough. Your kids are still little so your schedule is pretty routine. As they get older more things pop up on the fly and don’t allow you to adjust accordingly. Or the weather just doesn’t cooperate when you need it to.

 

[wireform]

Also ther may be peak and off peak pricing. Heating at night is one thing but heating peak changes the numbers alot.

 

[Newdude]

Insert any sport for comparison but let’s just use baseball and football as an example. In pee wee sports it is over at a set date and everybody gets a trophy. In middle school if they win, both sports get extended by a month of playoffs and those are weekends that will be harder to find the time to swim early\late in the season.

 

[wireform]

This was exactly our struggle. When we were free it was unusually cold that weekend and didn’t work well. Or plans changed last minute either way and we either paid to heat a unused pool, or couldn’t warm it fast enough. Your kids are still little so your schedule is pretty routine. As they get older more things pop up on the fly and don’t allow you to adjust accordingly. Or the weather just doesn’t cooperate when you need it to.

The conversion I mentioned isn't even from a $$$ stand point as the home owner could care less but it is rather upsetting to them and has happened on more then one occasion that the pool didn't reach the temps anticipated and when all set and done the pool was missing that 88° temps other people have and we know why.

 

[l1ltaral1l]

No tiered, bracket or peak pricing here (yet, anyway!) I guess I was just shocked at the cost to compare difference.

Another good point about the time to heat as well.

My husband works in the compressed gas industry (he fills high grade propane, go figure.) Now I'm wondering if he can get a propane tank at a discounted cost. The going monthly lease around here is about $9-11 / month it seems, with an outright purchase of around 1k.

We did wire/pour a pad for a heat pump (because that's what the PB rec). Is the connection stuff a lot difference for a propane heater?

 

[Newdude]

Tara, even with all this info both real and intangible, i very well may have gotten my heat pump anyway. But had i known i would have had many less coulda/woulda/shouldas and would have been much happier inviting you to come bowling with us on the weekends that we couldn't swim, with all that money we saved. And really that is all anybody is trying to get across, not that one is better/worse, but to have all the info to make your best decision that you will live with.

We did wire/pour a pad for a heat pump (because that's what the PB rec). Is the connection stuff a lot difference for a propane heater

You will still need the electric (some of it at least) to run the gas heater if you go that route. It was cheap in the grand scheme of things to run and smart either way being unsure of which way you would need later.

 

[l1ltaral1l]

Yes, def! I am def on board with a gas heater. I was actually hoping the calculator would show me better numbers to back my point. HA!

 

[PoolBrews]

If there are peak hours, it won't matter. During the colder months, the avg temp may be 50, at night it will drop below 50 and the heater either will not work or will be very inefficient. Heat pumps work better as the ambient air temp increases. Here in Florida, I don't run my heat pump at night - I wait until the temp is above 60 to run. If I do this, my pool heats in a couple of hours. When I tried it at night (for an experiment ) with the temp at 52 it took 4 1/2 hours to achieve the same degree increase in the pool.

You will have to run the heat pump during the warmest parts of the day to achieve your biggest bang for your buck.

 

[ajw22]

If there are peak hours, it won't matter. During the shoulder months, the avg temp may be 50, at night it will drop below 50 and the heater either will not work or will be very inefficient. Heat pumps work better as the ambient air temp increases. Here in Florida, I don't my heat pump at night - I wait until the temp is above 60 to run. If I do this, my pool heats in a couple of hours. When I tried it at night (for an experiment ) with the temp at 52 it took 4 1/2 hours to achieve the same degree increase in the pool.

You will have to run the heat pump during the warmest parts of the day to achieve your biggest bang for your buck.

Having a cover on the water makes a big difference in retaining heat at night and when pool water temperature is above air temperature. A cover can make the difference if a Heat Pump is effective or not.

 

[l1ltaral1l]

Thanks so much, everyone! We do have a solar cover that we plan on using.

 

[sktn77a]

Honestly, I don't think a heatpump will have the capacity to achieve your goals (20,000 gal pool in PA). The most common residential ones go up to about 120,000 BTU (commercial ones go higher but they're hard to find, especially discounted). For reference, a 250,000 BTU gas heater raises our NC 15,000 gal pool temperature approx 1 degree per hour with a solar cover in the summer.