Having a pool built and need advice

[ajw22]

1. It includes 1 pump, but with the water features and and slide it will require a second pump to make everything operate as it should.

So the ePump for the pool and the Stealth pump for the slide?

2. Chlor is short for Chlorinator

Thank him for that enlightening comment. Is that a Trichlor tablet chlorinator? You don't want it. You want a SWCG. Using Trichlor to chlorinate your pool will continuously add CYA/stabilizer. The only way to remove high levels of CYA is to drain your pool. So if you use Trichlor you will be draining water from your pool every few months.

3.The extra pump is for the water features and slide

OK. And what valves will you have to control the water features and slide? You want all diverter valves. No ball valves.

4. I believe the line your looking at says drain "pots" rather than spots. the drain pots are the main drain assembly. we use an extra one in order to remain compliant and for safety reason.

OK.

5. the 3/4 inch line is used as a fill line that will be connected to an automatic filler device

ok.

6. 1 1/2 lines are used as return lines for the pool and the suction will be 2 inch

OK

7. the spa is plumbed in 2 inch and reduced down for the jets.
the flow rate all depends on what you have your pump set at. with it being a variable speed pump you can adjust the flow rate.
these are no a jacuzzi with jet pumps, these are a spa which operates off a circulation pump.

Ask him what the maximum flow rate you can expect to get from each spa jet will be?

For a strong jet feeling you want it to be 12-15 GPM per jet.

8. were going to be going from a CL460 to a CL580

Good.

9. on the pool plans that i have im showing 2 LED lights in the pool and 1 in the spa. I would like for you to consider adding a third one in the pool since it's such a long pool

What model LED lights will be used?

10. All pools that i build, i make sure have an overflow drain, especially in this area. i do my best to hide them inside of a skimmer

Good.

11. i think the black would look great! However there are other options. We're somewhat limited in color choices. we have white, light gray, dark gray.

Coordinate the color with your plaster, tile, and coping colors.

 

[voidpointer]

Thank him for that enlightening comment. Is that a Trichlor tablet chlorinator? You don't want it. You want a SWCG. Using Trichlor to chlorinate your pool will continuously add CYA/stabilizer. The only way to remove high levels of CYA is to drain your pool. So if you use Trichlor you will be draining water from your pool every few months.

Does this mean I'm effectively moving to a salt pool? I had a discussion a while back about that here and honestly the whole chlorine vs salt discussion frustrated me. I ended up just going with what the builder suggested. Maybe this needs a whole discussion by itself, but if I change to SWCG doesn't that mean I need to change other equipment too? Or am I misunderstanding? Yes I know everyone here loves salt water pools and pool builders hate them. I was planning to stick to chlorine, as I figured it wouldn't be that bad. But it's probably one of those things where I won't know the repercussions of my decision until the pool is built and it's too late. So since this discussion is likely to open up again, I'll share what I learned from the last time this got brought up and sort of summarize the whole thing as it sits in my mind right now:

Pros:
- Less ongoing maintenance on the pool "Chemistry" (I don't know how much less, in terms of: How often per week will I be doing "pool stuff" and what that looks like)
- Water feels better, easier on skin/eyes, etc

Cons:
- Risk of corrosion, although after reading the pool school guide, seems to be low risk.
- More expensive equipment cost up front
- Cell replacement every 5 years (seems optimistic, what's a realistic number?) which is expensive (by how much?)

Thoughts:
- Pool builder discourages it and says "only 1 or 2 pools i built this year are salt". Yes, I know pool builders hate salt pools. A lot of smart folks here told me to expect this. But I don't know why.
- When I get out of my pool and water drips on my travertine pavers (which is what I'll be using for my decking), water evaporates but salt stays. If this salt builds up over time, will it erode or eat away at the decking?
- I'm not reading much about draining pools. So multiple times a year I'm draining my pool?
- If I tell my pool builder to switch to SWCG, what other equipment will change? What can I expect? The superintendent will likely pick the correct equipment for me when I switch, what will need to be reviewed?
- I feel like salt water pools might be worse or better in certain states. Is this true? And if so, does the harsh Texas summers cause an issue?
- Why does SWCG get so much flack? Why do pool builders hate them? Why is the decisions so hard?
- Can someone give me a day to day or week to week idea of what the maintenance is like for SWCG vs tablet? The superintendent mentioned a little kit you use to check the water (I think every day?) it changes color and you know something needs to be added.

Thank you SO much for the help!!

 

[voidpointer]

My SWCG questions are mostly for my knoweldge, I'm already planning to switch it. I trust the good folks here so I am not going to question the decision to change, I will only question to learn.

Here is the summary of the equipment changes I sent to my PB just now:

- Switch to non-SVRS pump
- Ensure pool drains are VGBA compliant / unblockable for safety and to allow removal of SVRS
- Remove OZone system
- Switch chlorinator to SWCG
- Upgrade cleaner to Polaris Quattro Sport

I'll admit I'm dumb about the SVRS / VGBA compliance stuff, but I emailed my city and they said they do not require SVRS, they said:

Short answer is they are not required, but they are a way to fulfill a requirement in APSP 7, which is part of the 2018 ISPSC (Texas Law), the Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act (Federal), and our upcoming adoption of the 2021 ISPSC which will go into effect on 1/1/21. So, I guess it depends on how your pool builder chooses to construct the pool, but we do need to see compliance with the Suction Entrapment Avoidance code requirements.

I think this lines up with what you all were saying about the compliance stuff. My basic understanding is that the focus should be on a safe, unblockable pool drain design so that I can move away from the SVRS pump.

 

[mknauss]

- Pool builder discourages it and says "only 1 or 2 pools i built this year are salt". Yes, I know pool builders hate salt pools. A lot of smart folks here told me to expect this. But I don't know why.

A SWCG is the easiest method to add chlorine to your pool. By far. Yes, you still need to use a proper test kit often to monitor your overall pool water chemistry. And you will need to adjust the FC creation parameters of the SWCG and pump several times per year.

- When I get out of my pool and water drips on my travertine pavers (which is what I'll be using for my decking), water evaporates but salt stays. If this salt builds up over time, will it erode or eat away at the decking?

Does it rain where you live? I suspect it does, and that will wash off your deck. But in reality, there is no effect. If you use the trichlor that your pool builder 'chlor' device was going to use, that adds salt to your pool water. The use of muriatic acid adds salt to your pool water. Using fill water due to evaporation adds salt to your pool water.

- I'm not reading much about draining pools. So multiple times a year I'm draining my pool?

If you use trichlor, and wish to maintain your FC/CYA ratio properly and thus never have algae and have pleasant, odorless, comfortable water to swim in, then yes, you would need to drain a large quantity of pool water often to be able to maintain the FC/CYA ratio. If you use a SWCG, it is likely you will rarely, if ever, need to drain your pool of water except for maintenance or a catastrophic event..

- If I tell my pool builder to switch to SWCG, what other equipment will change? What can I expect? The superintendent will likely pick the correct equipment for me when I switch, what will need to be reviewed?

None. You will not need the 'chlor' device. Your SWCG should be integrated into whatever automation system you will have.

- I feel like salt water pools might be worse or better in certain states. Is this true? And if so, does the harsh Texas summers cause an issue?

Sure. It will add the chlorine your pool needs every day. I live in S Nevada. Our summer high temperatures approach 130F. We rarely have clouds. My SWCG works wonderfully. And is in its 7th year of operation.

- Why does SWCG get so much flack? Why do pool builders hate them? Why is the decisions so hard?

PB's are not typically not up to speed with pool water chemistry. They typically rarely have a pool, and also expect all their customers to use pool services that charge way too much money to poorly manage your pool water chemistry.

- Can someone give me a day to day or week to week idea of what the maintenance is like for SWCG vs tablet? The superintendent mentioned a little kit you use to check the water (I think every day?) it changes color and you know something needs to be added.

Once you learn your pool water chemistry nuances and understand how your weather, fill water, and SWCG effects your pool water chemistry, you will test your FC and pH a couple times a week. You will test your TA when you need to lower your pH, and you will test your CH and CYA every month. You will likely need to add acid once or twice a week, especially when the pool is new.
With a tablet feeder, you will have to test every day for FC, add liquid chlorine to make up for the failure of the tablet to add enough each day to meet the FC/CYA ratio, test pH and TA every few days so you can add baking soda so the trichlor does not crash your pH and TA. Also drain about 1/3 of your pool volume each month from May to September so your CYA does not go too high.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pros:
- Less ongoing maintenance on the pool "Chemistry" (I don't know how much less, in terms of: How often per week will I be doing "pool stuff" and what that looks like)
- Water feels better, easier on skin/eyes, etc

Cons:
- Risk of corrosion, although after reading the pool school guide, seems to be low risk.
- More expensive equipment cost up front
- Cell replacement every 5 years (seems optimistic, what's a realistic number?) which is expensive (by how much?)

Thoughts:
- Pool builder discourages it and says "only 1 or 2 pools i built this year are salt". Yes, I know pool builders hate salt pools. A lot of smart folks here told me to expect this. But I don't know why.
- When I get out of my pool and water drips on my travertine pavers (which is what I'll be using for my decking), water evaporates but salt stays. If this salt builds up over time, will it erode or eat away at the decking?
- I'm not reading much about draining pools. So multiple times a year I'm draining my pool?
- If I tell my pool builder to switch to SWCG, what other equipment will change? What can I expect? The superintendent will likely pick the correct equipment for me when I switch, what will need to be reviewed?
- I feel like salt water pools might be worse or better in certain states. Is this true? And if so, does the harsh Texas summers cause an issue?
- Why does SWCG get so much flack? Why do pool builders hate them? Why is the decisions so hard?
- Can someone give me a day to day or week to week idea of what the maintenance is like for SWCG vs tablet? The superintendent mentioned a little kit you use to check the water (I think every day?) it changes color and you know something needs to be added.

VP,

All Saltwater pools are chlorine pools... And all Chlorine pools are saltwater pools... It is just a matter of degree..

With a saltwater pool, the Saltwater Chlorine Generator (SWCG) just uses the salt in the pool water to make the chlorine your pool needs. With a standard chlorine pool, you have to somehow add chlorine... You can manually pour in Liquid chlorine, or you can use chlorine tablets.. Once the chlorine is in the water, there is no difference between the chlorine that is in a saltwater pool and the chlorine that is in a standard chlorine pool.

Saltwater pools usually have a salt level of about 3,500 ppm.. The ocean has a salt level of about 35,000 ppm.. The level of salt, in a saltwater pool is almost unnoticeable. Standard chlorine pools build up salt from the chemicals used and after a year of so will have a salt level of about 1,500 ppm.

The idea that you have to drain your pool, if it is a saltwater pool is just not correct. I have three saltwater pools and they have never been drained. One has been a saltwater pools for over 10 years, one over 7 years and the one at my house is over 6 years old.. All with the same water..

The equipment at all three pools is identical to equipment at regular chlorine pools.. If someone is telling you that you need "special" equipment they are just lying. Just use a little logic and common sense... Would equipment manufactures make SWCGs if they could not be used with all their other equipment??

Saltwater pools are used all over the world... No state is better or worse.. They do not work once the water temps gets below about 52 degrees, so they are more popular in the South.

Pool maintenance is easy with a SWCG, because you don't have to buy and store chlorine or chlorine tablets. The reason it costs more up-front is that you are buying the chlorine that is going to be produced by the cell in advance. The main problem with tablets is that they contain CYA (Stabilizer).. It is what holds the chlorine in tablet form. The chlorine gets used up, but the CYA does not. The higher the CYA, the higher your FC will need to be to keep your pool sanitized. After a while, the CYA will increase to where the FC will no longer protect the pool from algae. The only fix is to drain the pool water and start over.

None of my three pools have any corrosion or corrosion damage of any kind. The original equipment is still in place and working fine. So far I have had to replace two SWCG cells.. One was almost 9 years old and the other was over 7 years old.

The test kit your pool builder will give you costs about $20 bucks and is not even worth that. The key to the TFP pool care method, no matter how you add chlorine to your pool, is routine testing with an accurate test kit.

If you want to make a short road trip, you are welcome to come down to Bedford (just West of the DFW airport) and check out my SWCG pool in operation.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[voidpointer]

Love the information about SWG. I already asked my pool builder to switch the chlorinator to SWG.

Based on my previous post which has a list of changes I requested from my pool builder, is there anything else I should ask to be changed?

 

[wireform]

Make sure he supplies you with a SWCG that's rated for twice the water capacity your pool has. It'll work more efficiently by not making you run the pump 24/7 and will last longer by not work it as hard. All in all its a win win.

 

[voidpointer]

Is turning the pump on/off a manual process? Or does it automatically turn on/off as needed?

 

[mknauss]

IQ Aqua Link 6 Funtion Cell Phone Only 1

The above you listed is Automation. You will program it to manage the pump, SWCG, spa, etc.

 

[voidpointer]

IQ Aqua Link 6 Funtion Cell Phone Only 1

The above you listed is Automation. You will program it to manage the pump, SWCG, spa, etc.

I'm sorry I don't understand. What do you mean by "IQ Aqua Link 6 Funtion Cell Phone Only 1"?

 

[mknauss]

I'm sorry I don't understand. What do you mean by "IQ Aqua Link 6 Funtion Cell Phone Only 1"?

That is the automation system shown on your list of equipment.

Jandy Aqualink RS - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

I'm sorry I don't understand. What do you mean by "IQ Aqua Link 6 Funtion Cell Phone Only 1"?

You will only have access to your pool control through your cell phone app. You will not have any other control panels.

 

[voidpointer]

Oh I'm sorry, I see now. Thank you. Learning a little bit at a time

You will only have access to your pool control through your cell phone app. You will not have any other control panels.

Is that enough? Or are you implying I need a control panel of some kind? I honestly never gave it any thought, but I think I'd be disappointed if there wasn't some non-phone way to control my equipment. I'm new to this so I don't really know what I need or want.

 

[ajw22]

Oh I'm sorry, I see now. Thank you. Learning a little bit at a time

That’s why I pointed it out.

Is that enough?

Depends who you expect to use your pool and spa and how they will have access to a device with the app.

Or are you implying I need a control panel of some kind? I honestly never gave it any thought, but I think I'd be disappointed if there wasn't some non-phone way to control my equipment. I'm new to this so I don't really know what I need or want.

Jandy has wired control panels so that you don’t need a phone or tablet.

Or you can have some tablets dedicated to pool control.

 

[voidpointer]

@ajw22 I wanted to share with you the PB's response to the second set of questions, which were:

1. So the ePump is for the pool and stealth pump for the slide?
2. I know we talked about tablet chlorinator. I'd like to switch to SWCG.
3. What valves will we have to control water features and slide? I'd like diverter valves, no ball valves
7. What is the max flow rate I can expect from each spa jet?
9. What brand/model LED lights will be used? I'm fine with adding a 3rd. Where would you put it?
11. For the eyeball colors, I just want it to be coordinated with the plaster / coping colors we picked. Should the eyeballs stand out when looking at them through the water? Or "blend" in more? If blended, wondering if it would be better to move to a dark gray? Hard to visualize. Let me know your thoughts.

And his responses:

1. The stealth is for the water featured and slide. They will both be running. The stealth will act as a booster pump.
2. I’ll make sure we have what we need for the salt system
3. You will have actuator valves. They are diverted valves that are motorized. We never use ball valves on final product.
4. Max rate is probably going to be 15gpm, possibly up to 18ish. These aren’t jacuzzi jets that supply a lot of pressure.
5. They will be the Jandy Nicheless hydrocool LED color changing lights. I would put a third on in the front of the tanning ledge.
6. I would think it would look better to keep them as blended in as possible. I would go with either of the gray colors. They says they’re dark and light gray but there is actually very little variation

So far, seems like everything is in line with your recommendations.

I should push him for a SWCG for up to ~40,000 gallon pool size, right? Mine is a bit under 20k gallons so double would be about 40... Just want to make sure. He said "I'll make sure we have what we need for the salt system" but I do want to kindly remind him that my only requirement is 40k gallons (if that's right).

Let me know if there's anything else I need to ping him on. Thank you once again for the guidance, this is extremely helpful!!

 

[wireform]

@ajw22 I wanted to share with you the PB's response to the second set of questions, which were:

And his responses:

So far, seems like everything is in line with your recommendations.

I should push him for a SWCG for up to ~40,000 gallon pool size, right? Mine is a bit under 20k gallons so double would be about 40... Just want to make sure. He said "I'll make sure we have what we need for the salt system" but I do want to kindly remind him that my only requirement is 40k gallons (if that's right).

Let me know if there's anything else I need to ping him on. Thank you once again for the guidance, this is extremely helpful!!

Yes to the SWCG capacity. Two X pool capacity it is.

 

[ajw22]

You want the Jandy Aquapure 1400 which is a 40K cell. Not the Truclear system.

 

[voidpointer]

So I have a change order from my PB with the following:

Credit for CL-468 Filter $835.95
Polaris 280 cleaner $594.51
Credit for Pure Bottle Ozone $461.85

Charge for CL-580 filter $1034.12
Polaris Quattro sport $1099.99
Additional light $384.22
1400 aqua pure swcg $673.72
14 bags of salt for start up $252.00


Total-$1,551.74

So I get some money back

non-SVRS pump isn't in the list because according to him the pump he has on the existing equipment list is not SVRS (which is different from my records, which I posted here, which *does* show SVRS). I've asked him for that updated equipment list and I will post it here.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[voidpointer]

Looking at the Prosper, TX water rates... at nearly $5 per 1,000 gallons of water, for a 20,000 gallon pool, am I right to expect it to cost roughly $100 in my water bill to fill the pool? I'm trying to prepare for any easy-to-overlook expenses from now until I jump into the pool for the first time.

 

[mknauss]

Your first 10000 gallons is $4.28 per 1000 and the next 10000 gallons is $6.41 per 1000.

Any water you use in Dec, Jan, and Feb is used in your Wastewater cost for the rest of the year.