Hardness issue

[bnd063011]

I’ve officially had the pool running about 3-4 months now. I’m still learning how to
Properly maintain my levels but one issue I still can’t seem to get in check is my CH. According to my testing kit I’m at 200PPM. It never budges. I’m staring to notice some crystal type hardness on the plaster and it is so rough on my feet. They were raw the last time I was in the pool. And the spa has a lot of loose scale on the floor I keep vacuuming up but next day comes right back. All my other levels are within range. How can I control the scale/CH? I bought a product called scaletec on Amazon but I have not used it yet. Any info would be great. Pool is 15x33 with 15x7 sunshelf and 5x7 spa approx 15k gallons.

 

[ajw22]

What test kit are you using?

Are you using PoolMath and having it calculate your CSI?

Post a complete set of test results from your own test kit in the format below or share your PoolMath

 

[bnd063011]

What test kit are you using?

Are you using PoolMath and having it calculate your CSI?

Post a complete set of test results from your own test kit in the format below or share your PoolMath

I just downloaded the app, I’ve never seen it before. I’m going to do a test today. I mostly use my 5-way test kit, a chem strip tester for hardness. And when I can remember I’ll take the water to punch a penny as well. Lots of loose scale in the spa floor

 

[Newdude]

You need a reliable test method thats even more importantly, repeatable. Test strips and store tests have proven time and time again to almost be random number generators. The path to TFP is well paved from people trying to make both of the others work for them. You are relatively new to us, but believe me, we've seen it thousands of thousands of times. Unlike the pool store, we have nothing to sell you but goodwill once we are all on the same testing page.

Test Kits Compared

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If you are seeing scale in your pool then your saturation index is too high which points to high pH, high TA, and/or high CH. Whatever you are testing with is giving you bad results. Cheap 5-way testers almost never have CH tests in them. Test strips often report total hardness instead of calcium hardness and they are usually wrong especially when the CH is very high. Pool store testing is mostly worthless as they are either incompetent (kid working a summer job), could care less, or they are using a digital tester which often gives erroneous results.

Once you gets proper test kit and can report reliable test values, we should be able to get to the bottom of the scale issue. Do not add any ScaleTec at this point, it will just mask the problem and not fix the issue.

 

[bnd063011]

PoolMath Logs

 

[bnd063011]

If you are seeing scale in your pool then your saturation index is too high which points to high pH, high TA, and/or high CH. Whatever you are testing with is giving you bad results. Cheap 5-way testers almost never have CH tests in them. Test strips often report total hardness instead of calcium hardness and they are usually wrong especially when the CH is very high. Pool store testing is mostly worthless as they are either incompetent (kid working a summer job), could care less, or they are using a digital tester which often gives erroneous results.

Once you gets proper test kit and can report reliable test values, we should be able to get to the bottom of the scale issue. Do not add any ScaleTec at this point, it will just mask the problem and not fix the issue.

Yea I just did some home testing and the results above are what I got. I need to order a better tester so I can figure out what’s happening here. I feel like I’m on a wild goose chase.

 

[Newdude]

I just did some home testing

With what method/kit ?

The 240 CYA is suspect. With a drop based kit you do a diluted test and multiply the result for an estimate. If the 240 is even close, you'll be draining the pool.

But we need to confirm with a reliable test method first as that's a big ordeal.

 

[proavia]

I need to order a better tester so I can figure out what’s happening here.

Test Kits Compared
Until you have and use a reliable test kit, providing you advice is just a guess.
I'd recommend the TF-100 Salt with the addition of the Smart Stir or the TF-Pro Salt (Smart Stir included).

 

[bnd063011]

Yes I definitely need to order the TF-prosalt kit because mine might be garbage. I went 2 different pool stores and they both tested the water twice. These were the results

TC: 0
FC: 0
CC: 0
pH: 7.8
Acid demand: 2 drops
Alkalinity: 220
Calcium hardness: 500
Stabilizer: 80
Salt: 3500

 

[bnd063011]

my SWG is at 75% right now. I’m not sure why it’s reading 0. The store told me it could be that my finish did not cure properly. Below is a photo of the scale I see daily in the spa even after I remove it.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Turn your SWG on at 100% output for a little bit and watch the water coming out of the returns. My guess is you are seeing “SWG snowflakes” being formed and blown into the pool. That happens as the cell ages but it is exacerbated by positive saturation index.

If we can even believe those pool store numbers, then the saturation index for your POOL water is +0.7. That’s calcium scaling territory. Inside your SWG cell is a different story as the pH is much higher inside the cell when it is generating chlorine. Assuming no borates, your pH can easily go up 10 or higher inside the cell. That would make the saturation index well above +2.0 which would create calcium carbonate snowflakes.

 

[bnd063011]

So the real question is how do I fix this mess? Should I be hiring a professional in the mean time to help sort this out? I am so out of my league with chemistry I can help you put out fires and diagnose heart attacks but water chemistry still very new to me

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Step 1 - purchase a high quality test kit.

Step 2 - use high quality test kit.

Step 3 - post results of your pool water and your fill (spigot) water.

Complete those three steps and then we’ll add some more

In the mean time, read this article -

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

^^^^^^^
Step 4 : earn your place here : How Clear is TFP Clear?

(And we will guide you every step of the way )

 

[JoyfulNoise]

One can also use the standard Southpark master planning process -

PHASE 1 - Buy and use one of the recommended high quality test kit …

PHASE 2 - Garden Gnomes

PHASE 3 - Float in Sparkling TFP Clear Pool

It’s a Cartman-Approved project plan …

 

[bnd063011]

One can also use the standard Southpark master planning process -

PHASE 1 - Buy and use one of the recommended high quality test kit …

PHASE 2 - Garden Gnomes

PHASE 3 - Float in Sparkling TFP Clear Pool

It’s a Cartman-Approved project plan …

That’s fantastic! Ok so I think another issue could be I live in a rural area and fill my pool with untreated well water (per the contractor) that water is very hard and may be adding to my issue. I’m going to fill it now with my treated water from the salt softener. I will order one of those test kits. I need to make this right.

I saw a video with someone having similar flakes and they said it was a phosphate issue. Could that also be a culprit?

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I saw a video with someone having similar flakes and they said it was a phosphate issue. Could that also be a culprit?

Please stop guessing. TFTestkits.net is near you on the east coast and has fast delivery. Get your test kit ASAP and post a full set of results. Then you'll get worthwhile advice from the knowledgeable folks on this site.

 

[mgtfp]

I saw a video with someone having similar flakes and they said it was a phosphate issue. Could that also be a culprit?

Very high phosphate levels in combination with high CH (you still need that) can lead to formation of calcium phosphate scaling. It's not very common, usually scaling is plain old calcium carbonate as a result of high CH, TA (which is a measure for carbonate) and pH (the higher the pH, the higher the carbonate portion in TA).

Best to test the water with a good test kit (Test Kits Compared), then we can work with facts rather than guesses.

 

[Hal3]

I hope bnd is doing OK.

It reminds me of going to one of those meetings.
"I have a problem. What should I do?"
"We know how to help you. Just do these steps in order."
"What about this? What about that? I saw something else over here!"
"We know how to help you. Just do these steps in order."
"I think my situation is special!"

etc