Goodyear, AZ (EMR) O/B Pool Deliberations - UPDATE - Pool is Filled!

[thewolf56]

A few more updates.

Deck is finished as of Saturday, July 3rd! We're really happy with how it turned out. The crew was very meticulous. When they were spreading the polymeric sand Saturday morning, I watched the lead guy step around each tile to see if there was any noise or movement (we had noticed a few that made a noise on the patio, but figured the polymeric sand would lock them in) and if there was any issue, he popped them out, added more sand to the base, and used a mallet to place them. He did that in a few areas. After the sand was watered down, it made a big difference in how the deck looked. My wife wasn't a fan of the larger holes in some of the travertine pavers, and the sand did a good job of filling them in nicely.

 

[thewolf56]

And some pictures of the deck from the ground.



And they fixed my gate and wall on Friday also. I didn't expect them to stucco it (we had discussed it, but never finalized it), but I was even more surprised when I saw someone show up yesterday to paint it.



Now, I just need the mosaics, handrail, travertine curb, artificial turf, and plaster installed (still need to install the auto-closing doors (2 large sliders and the garage door) and make the gate auto-closing as well. I'll also need to decide which pool fence we are going with, but it is coming close to pool completion (landscaping is another headache I don't want to think about right now ).

 

[kimkats]

I am LOVING the soft sweep of the edge of the decking. That really adds to the visual appeal! Well done by the tile guys to do such a good job on it!

That wall and gate are NICE!

How do you auto close sliders? Man that is going to be BIG money I bet!

 

[gingrbredman]

That is a real nice looking decking right there! So much attention to detail, and pride in workmanship, its awesome!

 

[Nikilyn]

If you have a pool fence you shouldn’t need to do auto closing doors too. Here in Gilbert we only needed our gate to self close. We did that so we could get the pool done and then put our fence up after plaster and they added the acrylic to our deck. I don’t know what kind of fence you are looking at, but we have the pool fencing from Lowe’s. It’s black and I hate it. The black looks dirty all the time. I wanted white but didn’t want the hassle of ordering it so went with black that was in stock. I regret it so much. We had cream before and never had a problem with how it looked but it didn’t go with anything this time.

 

[thewolf56]

I am LOVING the soft sweep of the edge of the decking. That really adds to the visual appeal! Well done by the tile guys to do such a good job on it!

Thanks, Kim. We made some changes from the plan before the curved cuts were made. They first placed the travertine and drew out all of the curves in pencil to make sure I was happy with it. After seeing the pavers there, I hated seeing so much of it cut back, so we made some of the deck bigger and the turf area a little smaller. It was interesting to watch how they drew the curves. They held a piece of PEX tubing to shape the curve and would draw the line along the curve. They also did a really good job cutting the soldier row.

That wall and gate are NICE!

Thanks. We were very happy with how it turned out. I originally thought I was going to have to get a different crew to stucco it, and then I thought I was going to have to paint it. It was nice to see all of that done as they even matched the paint color pretty closely.

How do you auto close sliders? Man that is going to be BIG money I bet!

There's a few different types of auto-closers for doors. Some work off of weights, others are pneumatic, and I saw one that was a spring inside. Most consist of a long bar that goes on the back of the door with a cable that comes out the top with an end screwed into the upper track. Then, the tension has to be adjusted on the cable so that it closes the door all of the way. And the specialty latch has to be installed as well.

They are definitely pricey out here. I paid a little over $600 for the parts to install on my 2 doors (both are 8 ft tall, and 1 is a multi-panel slider) from a local company. Their price to install was over $800 each door.

 

[thewolf56]

That is a real nice looking decking right there! So much attention to detail, and pride in workmanship, its awesome!

Thanks. We've been very happy with the quality of their work. Even when we were making changes on the fly, they didn't seem too annoyed with the deviations from the plan. I'm hoping that keeping them full of cold water and Gatorades and a selection of snacks each day helped.

 

[thewolf56]

If you have a pool fence you shouldn’t need to do auto closing doors too. Here in Gilbert we only needed our gate to self close. We did that so we could get the pool done and then put our fence up after plaster and they added the acrylic to our deck. I don’t know what kind of fence you are looking at, but we have the pool fencing from Lowe’s. It’s black and I hate it. The black looks dirty all the time. I wanted white but didn’t want the hassle of ordering it so went with black that was in stock. I regret it so much. We had cream before and never had a problem with how it looked but it didn’t go with anything this time.

In Goodyear, we have to sign an affidavit at the time of permit application that indicates the type of barrier we will be using with our pool, but it can be changed as long as it meets one of the listed criteria. You are absolutely correct that I do not need a fence and auto-closers to pass inspection, but here if I do not use a pool fence, I have to have all windows and doors with latches over 54" high and all doors and gates with access to the pool have to be auto-closing. So, I have to make the garage utility door auto-closing with a doorknob over 54" (easy, just use self-closing hinges and switch the doorknob and deadbolt positions), the 2 sliders auto-closing (pain), and the gate auto-closing. I plan on using this for my inspection.

For the fence, we plan on using a removable mesh fence. We haven't decided on 5' or 4' yet (with self-closing gate), but from what I have read, many do not meet municipal codes due to the non-permanent installation. We also haven't decided on black or brown poles and mesh. Also, this way, I don't have to worry about the fence installation getting in the way of scheduling plaster. I know what you mean about the black fence looking dirty all of the time. We installed that black steel pool fence when my mother was having a pool installed. It was a pain to install (kept popping the screw heads off of when installing the brackets on the fence poles, so we ended up welding it all together). Had to repaint parts of it every year too as the rust would come through the black paint and it would show every single water spot.

With a 3 year-old (and this 3 year-old likes to climb much more than her older sister), I want to try to be as safe as possible. So, we will have the auto-closing doors, the pool fence, doors and windows already hooked up to an alarm, and the camera (currently used for timelapse photos) will have its settings changed to alert whenever a human enters the zone. Our oldest daughter has been in swim lessons since she was 16 months old (doing swim team now) and our youngest unfortunately was a little older when she started due to the COVID protocols (she was a little over 18 months when she started). Our youngest can jump in the pool, swim back to the wall, and pull herself out, but I still want to use every reasonable safety measure.

 

[kimkats]

to install was over $800 each door.

OUCH!!! Guess this is not a DIY job for most people!

Our youngest can jump in the pool, swim back to the wall, and pull herself out, but I still want to use every reasonable safety measure.

You cannot put a price on that! Well done!

 

[Nikilyn]

I agree about making the pool safe. That’s why we have a pool fence. Our youngest is 11 which would make many in our neighborhood not have a fence. But we also have grandkids. Plus, my son plays out back with his friends. Without a fence, one shove or tackle or stray ball can easily land someone in the pool. I want my kids/grandkids to be able to play outback without the fear of the pool. We’ve had people in our neighborhood ask for recommendations for someone to take down their pool fence because their kids are old enough and it’s not needed. I’m not sure if that’s ever true.

 

[thewolf56]

It's been a little while since I've last posted. Went to Flagstaff for a week so my oldest could attend space/physics camp at the Lowell Observatory and the rest of us got to escape the the Phoenix heat (which I think ended up being the hottest week out here so far). It was a nice 30-40 degrees cooler up there, but we still found time to go swimming.

The turf we picked out came back in stock while we our out of town, but our subcontractor was in communication with me so that I could purchase the material and they could start installing the day after we got back. We once again made a couple of changes to the shape, which allowed us to use a single piece of turf with no seams.



I think I will need to move that big rock farther away from the wall and closer to the grass at some point (it was moved during the deck phase for some reason and I was at first good with it moved there).

 

[thewolf56]

While I wait to get my final inspection (just a couple of items left to do), my wife has talked to a couple of friends that either swear that their pool builder told them that salt water destroys travertine, or they have a friend whose travertine was destroyed by a salt water pool.

I already did my research on here a long time ago and had not planned on sealing the travertine (although I do like the wet look of this travertine). Now, my wife is pretty set on getting it sealed. I already reached out to Laticrete and they recommended their Stonetech Salt Water Resistant Sealer. I would like the stain resistance (kids plus light-colored stuff do not mix well), but do not look forward to additional slipperiness from water beading up or the additional maintenance and cost of having to do this every 2 years.

Does anyone have any experience with this sealer? Does anyone know if you can add Shark Grip to a penetrating sealer for additional slip resistance (Q&A on the amazon page referred to generic "sealer" and I know that it would work with a clear coat-type sealer).

 

[kimkats]

That all looks awesome!

e once again made a couple of changes to the shape, which allowed us to use a single piece of turf with no seams.

Well done!

No help on the sealer

 

[Nikilyn]

What are all those pipes for sticking up by the boulders? The yard is looking great. I had a huge boulder left and a few smaller ones to put around the pool to tie in with the waterfall. I got push back from my husband and the waterfall guy because they thought it would look stupid. Now my husband says he likes how they look more . But at first they kind of looked like yours do, just sitting around the dirt not doing anything .

Good luck with the sealer. I wouldn't want it any more slippery. Our marble around our hot tub is super slippery. I think, from what I've read on here, the problem comes from bad chemicals and pool care than from the salt since chlorine adds salt to the water anyway.

 

[tommelton]

As to the Stonetech Salt Water Resistant Sealer - we used it on our travertine for our pool that was completed in mid-June this year. In my opinion, it is NOT an easy to install product. It does seem to work pretty well. We have lots of trees around the pool area, and they are always dropping some leaves. Prior to the sealer, the dried leaves would leave stains on the travertine in no time if they got wet, and it was difficult to get the stains off the travertine. After the sealer, they still leave marks, but they are easy to clean, basically just wipes away with water. The sealer did NOT change the color of the stone at all - just as we wanted.

The installation instructions say to apply the sealer, then let it set to soak in to the travertine for 20 or so minutes. Then wipe any remaining sealer off the surface of the travertine - do not let it dry on the surface, otherwise you may wind up with permanent white product on the surface of your travertine, that will take mechanical means to remove (sanding?). The sealer is milky white, and I can certainly imagine what happens if you don't get it off the surface in time.

We (wife and I) installed the sealer ourselves, as we did not trust the travertine crew to follow the instruction accurately (language barrier...). The job was tough. We have about 1000 sq ft of travertine around the pool, applied the sealer with a roller, then after 15 or so minutes wiped the surface dry using many many clothes. As I mentioned, it was June and it was hot outside here in Georgia, so the surface drying time was short, so we had to work fast. Wiping the stuff off was hard, it was not simply absorb it off the top. I used two clothes, one in each hand, the first to get most off the surface, the second hand to make sure there were no streaks remaining.

We did the work in sections, using painters tape to keep track of what had been done and what had not. We worked when there was shade on the deck, if trying to do in direct sun - it would have been too hot for us and the travertine.

We also used Stonetech Enhancer Pro Sealer on a different travertine deck (upper deck for a fire pit - different color travertine) and also on the coping around the pool. The upper deck and coping is Walnut (Noche) color ( http://www.stonesnature.com/walnut-travertine-tumbled-pool-coping/ ) and the pool deck is Cascade Blend color ( http://www.stonesnature.com/cascade-blend-travertine-filled-brushed-pavers/ ). The walnut/noche travertine was dull in color and we felt it needed enhancing to make the color better. The Enhancer Pro Sealer did exactly that - made it a little darker and enriched the color. The Enhancer Pro Sealer is a solvent based sealer, very easy to apply and very easy to wipe off the surface without streaks. Much much easier to apply than the Salt Water Resistant sealer that is water based.

Here is us installing the sealer on the pool deck...

 

[thewolf56]

What are all those pipes for sticking up by the boulders? The yard is looking great. I had a huge boulder left and a few smaller ones to put around the pool to tie in with the waterfall. I got push back from my husband and the waterfall guy because they thought it would look stupid. Now my husband says he likes how they look more . But at first they kind of looked like yours do, just sitting around the dirt not doing anything .

Good luck with the sealer. I wouldn't want it any more slippery. Our marble around our hot tub is super slippery. I think, from what I've read on here, the problem comes from bad chemicals and pool care than from the salt since chlorine adds salt to the water anyway.

Thanks, Nikki.

I've read so many different stories on travertine that it shard to know what the best course of action is. There is chlorine in a salt water pool and there is salt in a chlorine pool. Most of what I have read regarding natural stone is that if you start with a bad material, it's more likely to have issues and if your pool's chemicals are not balanced, that will also lead to degradation. At my old house, we had a a firepit and built-in benches topped with flagstone (no pool in that backyard). One of the flagstone pieces on one of the benches was flaking off in layers after about a year. It wasn't exposed to the sprinklers hitting it or anything, so it was just a bad piece of material to start.

The white pipes are for irrigation for plants and the grey pipes around the yard are mixed use for conduit for future use. Some are for landscape lights, outdoor speakers, HDMI and ethernet for a projector, conduit to run a line for misters at the planned gazebo/pavilion, and a couple are planned for future 120v outlets.

I agree on the slipperiness. I definitely do not want it to be more slippery from sealer.

 

[thewolf56]

As to the Stonetech Salt Water Resistant Sealer - we used it on our travertine for our pool that was completed in mid-June this year. In my opinion, it is NOT an easy to install product. It does seem to work pretty well. We have lots of trees around the pool area, and they are always dropping some leaves. Prior to the sealer, the dried leaves would leave stains on the travertine in no time if they got wet, and it was difficult to get the stains off the travertine. After the sealer, they still leave marks, but they are easy to clean, basically just wipes away with water. The sealer did NOT change the color of the stone at all - just as we wanted.

We also used Stonetech Enhancer Pro Sealer on a different travertine deck (upper deck for a fire pit - different color travertine) and also on the coping around the pool. The upper deck and coping is Walnut (Noche) color ( Walnut Travertine Tumbled Pool Coping – Stone Nature ) and the pool deck is Cascade Blend color ( Cascade Blend Travertine Filled / Brushed Pavers – Stone Nature ). The walnut/noche travertine was dull in color and we felt it needed enhancing to make the color better. The Enhancer Pro Sealer did exactly that - made it a little darker and enriched the color. The Enhancer Pro Sealer is a solvent based sealer, very easy to apply and very easy to wipe off the surface without streaks. Much much easier to apply than the Salt Water Resistant sealer that is water based.

Thank you very much for the feedback on your experience with it. I like the look of my ivory blend when it is wet, but don't want to add to the slipperiness at all. Can you feel a difference in slipperiness between the coping and the rest of your pool deck with the different sealers used, especially when both surfaces are wet?

We don't have any vegetation in the back yard, yet, but there are definitely other stains I want to avoid (including the flowers of the desert willow from my back door neighbor). If I do decide to go this route, I'm afraid I would have to be up before dawn in order to have any chance of it penetrating before drying as even right now with the rain, we will be lucky if the temp drops below 80 at the coldest part of the morning (5-6 am are the coolest part and tomorrow would be exactly 80 degrees at that time), so likely to be a fall project to do it correctly. Plus, I have around 1400 sq ft of travertine that would need to be sealed and most of it is in the sun by mid-morning.

 

[tommelton]

Thank you very much for the feedback on your experience with it. I like the look of my ivory blend when it is wet, but don't want to add to the slipperiness at all. Can you feel a difference in slipperiness between the coping and the rest of your pool deck with the different sealers used, especially when both surfaces are wet?

We don't have any vegetation in the back yard, yet, but there are definitely other stains I want to avoid (including the flowers of the desert willow from my back door neighbor). If I do decide to go this route, I'm afraid I would have to be up before dawn in order to have any chance of it penetrating before drying as even right now with the rain, we will be lucky if the temp drops below 80 at the coldest part of the morning (5-6 am are the coolest part and tomorrow would be exactly 80 degrees at that time), so likely to be a fall project to do it correctly. Plus, I have around 1400 sq ft of travertine that would need to be sealed and most of it is in the sun by mid-morning.

We have not experienced additional slipperiness with either sealer. But, I will say I believe the Enhancer Pro solvent based sealer would be less slippery than the Salt Water Resistant IF there was any error in installation where the Salt Water version was not completely removed before drying. On the upper deck (barely visible above the umbrella in the picture above) is the same stone as the coping, and we used Enhancer Pro there - and it is not slippery.

We started on the deck one morning, while that portion was in the shade. Worked until the sun interrupted us. Moved to a different area, worked there again until Mr Sun pelted us. We used small pieces of blue painters tape to mark off what we had done, vs what had not been done, and continued working as we could with shade, etc until complete.

Back to the tree leaves and staining. We had a decent storm come thru recently, and it dumped lots of leaves on the lighter colored pool deck and coping. We did not get to remove the limbs/leaves for a couple days - and when we did, there were marks from the leaves. We did not clean them at that time, just left them as we know they clean up easy. A couple days later, more rain. After that rain, the leaf marks were gone. No scrubbing at all, just the rain.

As to the Enhancer Pro sealer - it has been on the coping since 4/29/2022 - so 3 months. I think the richness that the enhanced sealer added has faded a little in those 3 months, but I just went back to a picture from 2 weeks post initial install and it does not appear much different:




We are happy with both sealers - the Enhancer Pro is certainly easier to install, adds richness to the darker stone. Before using either of the sealers, I purchased small bottles of each, and we experimented on the actual stone we had installed. We tried the Enhancer Pro on the lighter colored material, and it did not change the color much it at all. But with the Cascade Blend color, not all of it is light, as there are some darker colors in the "blend". So we did not want to take the chance of using the Enhancer Pro on the "blend" as we did not want a patchwork to appear if the Enhancer Pro worked to enhance the darker colors and not the lighter.

-Tom

 

[thewolf56]

Some good news this morning. I have passed the pre-plaster inspection.

Installing the sliding doors auto-closers and latches was a pain, but not enough of a pain to spend $800+ each for installation. Gate spring was a little bit of a pain to install because of where the frame was mounted on the pilasters (it left very little room to tighten the tension on the spring). Once I saw the idea to mount it upside down, there was plenty of room to increase the tension and it closed easily.

The garage utility door was easy to make compliant as well. I just had to switch the locations of the deadbolt and door handle, and I replaced the hinges with self-closing hinges (changing each one out at a time in order to avoid alignment issues).

Still need my handrail and mosaics installed, but that will be done while I wait for my plaster date.

 

[Nikilyn]

Yay!