Going through first winter with a pool & seeking advice to prevent damage

[Sport014]

Hi All. It's my first post, and I apologize for the length. I want to be thorough enough to solicit help and hope to help others who have a similar challenges. I tried like heck to find posts about similar setups in prep closing this fall, but I had little luck. Here goes nothing...

This is my first pool. It's an AG 18' x 33' with vinyl liner. I'm in CT with cold winters and frozen pools. I have an "Ultimate Winter Pool Cover" with a mesh stripe down the middle that allows water to drain through. I think what has me pulling my hair out a bit is that most of the winterization info I found applies to solid covers and very little mesh info applies to colder climates.

When I closed I drained to 6" below the lowest inlet/outlet (the skimmer opening) and put in two 4' x 8' pillows. I was careful about placing the pillows. Since the only permeable portion of the cover is the stripe running down the middle (the long way), I was careful not to obstruct the stripe and to make sure the cover would form a valley down the center under the weight of precipitation, allowing water to drain. I secured each of the pillows along the edge of the pool, at each of the far ends. I didn't plug the inlet/outlet, and left the valves open. My thought (right or wrong) was this would allow water to escape as it collected and prevent overfilling if we got lots of rain and snow.

Now, the pool has refilled almost to the bottom of the skimmer, one of the two pillows has deflated, and there is a solid layer of ice. The combination of these things are where most of my questions come from...

1. Does the pillow orientation that I used seem OK to others, or are they only effective when in the middle of the pool?

2. Should I be concerned that one off the two pillows has deflated? With the pool already frozen, I realize there's no much I can do about it, so I guess this is just more of a curiosity.

3. I'm second guessing my choice to not close up the inlet/outlet. I'm wondering if this might lead the components to crack. On the flip side, I'm not sure how I'd drain water from the pool if became overfilled. Seems like a Catch 22 to me. I'd love some advice.

For anyone who made it this far, thanks for sticking in there! I'll be truly grateful for anyone who is willing to share some wisdom with me. The conversations in this forum have been a lifesaver so far.

Cheers,

Kyle

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP Kyle.

Best to use a submersible utility pump to drain water when necessary rather then keeping to inlet/outlet open.

So you did not plug the inlet and outlet. Is the pump still connected? Did you remove the drain plug from the pump? You have flex PVC or hard PVC pipes? What is currently connected to the inlet/outlet?

 

[Sport014]

Allen, thanks for your reply. Everything is disconnected and packed away for the winter. Only the inlet and skimmer themselves are left. They are unplugged and their valves are open. The skimmer is covered by the pool cover.

How will use of the sub pump work when the top of the pool is already frozen? I was assuming that since ice is lighter than water any new water would find its way below the ice making it impossible to pump. Am I off the mark there?

 

[zea3]

Could you post a picture of the pool in its current configuration? I'd like to see how much pipe is still attached.

I think the submersible pump is advice for next time.

 

[ajw22]

Allen, thanks for your reply. Everything is disconnected and packed away for the winter. Only the inlet and skimmer themselves are left. They are unplugged and their valves are open. The skimmer is covered by the pool cover.

If the in and out pipes are open then water should flow out of them and ice would have room to expand in them.

How will use of the sub pump work when the top of the pool is already frozen? I was assuming that since ice is lighter than water any new water would find its way below the ice making it impossible to pump. Am I off the mark there?

Don't touch the water while you have an ice layer. The edges of the ice can tear a liner if disturbed.

The sub pump is for next year if you plug the inlet/outlet or if you get a thaw to drain some water out.

 

[Sport014]

Could you post a picture of the pool in its current configuration? I'd like to see how much pipe is still attached.

I think the submersible pump is advice for next time.

He's a pic of the skimmer and inlet. I suppose I was misleading by saying that I had the inlet valve open. I forgot there is no valve there.



And, here's a pic of the water level from the inside. I'm glad you asked me for the picture, because it forced me to look closer. It seems like the excess water is draining from the inlet as I had hoped. I'm guessing this will do the trick. Do you agree?

 

[ajw22]

You look fine. You don't have any water trapped in the pipe that can freeze and crack it.

 

[Sport014]

Thanks a ton! Just one more question about the pool pillow though... The one that is still inflated is sitting atop the ice. Is this typical? I thought it was supposed to help maintain an unfrozen portion of the water so that ice had a place to expand, but maybe I misunderstood.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks a ton! Just one more question about the pool pillow though... The one that is still inflated is sitting atop the ice. Is this typical? I thought it was supposed to help maintain an unfrozen portion of the water so that ice had a place to expand, but maybe I misunderstood.

Ice expands up. You don't need a pillow on the top of your cover for that. I think the purpose of the pillow is to create a tent in the cover so water runs down the sides and doesn't pool in the middle and submerge the cover.

 

[Texas Splash]

 

[Sport014]

Your last two comments mimic what I've found though all my searching. That is, half the crowd says the pillows just to make it easier remove water and leaves from the solid covers in spring time, and the other half says they're also needed to prevent damage from ice expansion. If the later is true, I would think that everyone in a colder climate who doesn't use a cover would fall victim to ice expansion. It's an expensive gamble, so I went with the pillow. I'd love to know if it's truly unnecessary though.

 

[ajw22]

Your last two comments mimic what I've found though all my searching. That is, half the crowd says the pillows just to make it easier remove water and leaves from the solid covers in spring time, and the other half says they're also needed to prevent damage from ice expansion. If the later is true, I would think that everyone in a colder climate who doesn't use a cover would fall victim to ice expansion. It's an expensive gamble, so I went with the pillow. I'd love to know if it's truly unnecessary though.

Let those who are selling air pillow explain the physics behind their claim that using the pillow prevents ice damage. It is an expensive placebo.

Do you need pillows in your ice trays to prevent them from cracking? No, because the ice expands up and the ice cube is higher then the water level was.

Ice does damage liners when the ice is disturbed and the edges tear into the liner. Pillows don't protect youf rom that. Not disturbing the water when there is ice in it does.

 

[borjis]

Don't touch the water while you have an ice layer. The edges of the ice can tear a liner if disturbed.

Interesting. We had a 24hr deep freeze recently, well 22 F overnight and an ice layer formed. It had
me thinking as it melted on the edges: Whoa! that is some potentially razor sharp looking ice I have there.

Not gonna touch that with a ten foot pole!

 

[Pool_Medic]

Just an FYI, the return and skimmer should be plugged because the water that will pour out of them, once thaws happen, will erode the substrate directly under them.

 

[Sport014]

Just an FYI, the return and skimmer should be plugged because the water that will pour out of them, once thaws happen, will erode the substrate directly under them.

Ha, there's actually a 4" divot in the floor of my pool right under the inlet. I bet this is where this came from. I never knew!

I think my window of opportunity for plugging things up this year has passed, but maybe I'll do that next year. I have a plug for the inlet and one of those winter skimmer plates, but the skimmer plate doesn't fit perfectly snug and still lets some water through. Is there something special I'm supposed to do to seal it up better?

BTW, thanks so much for all the info everyone. This forum and its members are extremely helpful.

 

[Pool_Medic]

Just jam your skimmer and the mouth of it with cut up noodles, nothing beats them for protecting from expanding ice.

 

[zea3]

I disagree. I would let the water drain out the open valve. You can get a cheap splash block like they use under gutter downspouts to divert the water away from the pool and prevent erosion under the pipe.
For example: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Creative-P...EqwdVRlU1dn7N5mxDoxoC1JYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds