Getting ready for O/B Bicarbonate Startup
- Thread starter JamieP
- Start date
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I think this is pretty much on track now, but just to continue my records...
Tonight's numbers:
Water temp: 67
PH = 7.8 (right on target, so do nothing)
We got a little rain this evening from a thunder storm. We'll see where my numbers are in the morning.
Tonight's numbers:
Water temp: 67
PH = 7.8 (right on target, so do nothing)
We got a little rain this evening from a thunder storm. We'll see where my numbers are in the morning.
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
My PH testing is going well and I'm having no trouble keeping it on track, so for now I won't post PH/TA results until I have a question.
But, here is a chlorine question...
Water temp is now 69.
FC = 0.5
CC = 1.0 (1.5?)
Are these numbers of concern? I know to expect the FC to be low since the pucks dissolve slowly, but is a CC of 1.0 or possibly 1.5 ok? I don't have a solid grasp of CC yet.
Before testing tonight I added a 6th puck to the feeder. The original 3 are getting much smaller, and #4 and 5 are about medium. I really don't know what to expect with the chlorine, but since the water is getting somewhat warmer, I thought I would be proactive and check. Thanks for your help!
But, here is a chlorine question...
Water temp is now 69.
FC = 0.5
CC = 1.0 (1.5?)
Are these numbers of concern? I know to expect the FC to be low since the pucks dissolve slowly, but is a CC of 1.0 or possibly 1.5 ok? I don't have a solid grasp of CC yet.
Before testing tonight I added a 6th puck to the feeder. The original 3 are getting much smaller, and #4 and 5 are about medium. I really don't know what to expect with the chlorine, but since the water is getting somewhat warmer, I thought I would be proactive and check. Thanks for your help!
I'd imagine you have lots of debris and pollen falling into the pool this time of year. That may be the culprit but even so, the CC numbers you posted seem kind of high for that.
What was the deal the other night? Was the chlorine .5 or 2?
At this point, your best bet may be to raise the chlorine level to 3 and do an OCLT to be certain that you don't have anything growing. I don't like that the plaster is so new and you'd be exposing it to a relativity high level of chlorine.
I still stand by my original position and doubt you have something growing. Have you ever tested the tap water for CC?
What was the deal the other night? Was the chlorine .5 or 2?
At this point, your best bet may be to raise the chlorine level to 3 and do an OCLT to be certain that you don't have anything growing. I don't like that the plaster is so new and you'd be exposing it to a relativity high level of chlorine.
I still stand by my original position and doubt you have something growing. Have you ever tested the tap water for CC?
- May 23, 2015
- 25,707
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Hey Brian,
For completeness sake can you educate the rest of us on why you wouldn't advise adding CYA up to 30ppm (granular form) and then holding the chlorine at "normal" levels (FC/CYA ~ 7.5%)? I understand not wanting to chlorinate a newly plastered pool right off the bat, but after two weeks is it really necessary to not expose the plaster to chlorine? I'm actually really curious as to the thought process behind it as I am sure others are.
Thanks,
Matt
For completeness sake can you educate the rest of us on why you wouldn't advise adding CYA up to 30ppm (granular form) and then holding the chlorine at "normal" levels (FC/CYA ~ 7.5%)? I understand not wanting to chlorinate a newly plastered pool right off the bat, but after two weeks is it really necessary to not expose the plaster to chlorine? I'm actually really curious as to the thought process behind it as I am sure others are.
Thanks,
Matt
The main reason is to avoid piling too much on top someone that may already have their hands full. In my experience with startups, this is most people's first pool, first exposure to chemistry, acid fumes, pool equipment, water testing, etc...and add a pregnancy, a bus full of kids and an unconventional startup method on top of that!
The pucks are very easy. They slowly add chlorine, CYA and a little acidity. This prevents exposing fresh plaster to too much chlorine too early. The other issue is that many colored plaster mixes come from organic based pigments which are susceptible to being bleached out, blue being one of the most prone (which was also confirmed by OnBalance through testing).
CYA is somewhat complicated to add for a new pool owner, and testing may be even more difficult. I'd rather see the focus directed at maintaining the pH and TA since those numbers are so far on the high side of things during a bicarbonate startup and damage could occur if left unattended. I can't imagine getting scale on brand new plaster.
Rather than having Jaime raise the FC to 3 just to do an OCLT, I think it would be best for her to add enough liquid chlorine to get to 2 and maintain that for a few days since that is about what shock level would be. I still can't imagine that something could be growing in the pool since it hasn't ever been without chlorine and the CYA started at 0. Her tap water was also very high in chlorine if I remember correctly which makes this even more puzzling.
You are correct that now that two weeks have passed, it would be fine to add CYA and begin maintaining a more appropriate FC/CYA level.
The pucks are very easy. They slowly add chlorine, CYA and a little acidity. This prevents exposing fresh plaster to too much chlorine too early. The other issue is that many colored plaster mixes come from organic based pigments which are susceptible to being bleached out, blue being one of the most prone (which was also confirmed by OnBalance through testing).
CYA is somewhat complicated to add for a new pool owner, and testing may be even more difficult. I'd rather see the focus directed at maintaining the pH and TA since those numbers are so far on the high side of things during a bicarbonate startup and damage could occur if left unattended. I can't imagine getting scale on brand new plaster.
Rather than having Jaime raise the FC to 3 just to do an OCLT, I think it would be best for her to add enough liquid chlorine to get to 2 and maintain that for a few days since that is about what shock level would be. I still can't imagine that something could be growing in the pool since it hasn't ever been without chlorine and the CYA started at 0. Her tap water was also very high in chlorine if I remember correctly which makes this even more puzzling.
You are correct that now that two weeks have passed, it would be fine to add CYA and begin maintaining a more appropriate FC/CYA level.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,707
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks. Couldn't agree more with your analysis and recommendations.
And, if memory serves me correctly her tap water has both chlorine AND chloramines in it. I seemed to remember being surprised her water supplier used both.
And, if memory serves me correctly her tap water has both chlorine AND chloramines in it. I seemed to remember being surprised her water supplier used both.
Hopefully that's the reason for the high CC she's getting...
I must admit I'm a little relieved to have not gotten a chemistry
from you after all of that! I better hurry up an log off :gone:
I must admit I'm a little relieved to have not gotten a chemistry
from you after all of that! I better hurry up an log off :gone:
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks guys. The other night I'm pretty sure my pool FC must have been 0.5. I retested after that post and that's what I got. Not sure where the 2.0 came from the other time.
Yes, we do have plenty of stuff dumping in the pool from our oak trees. I've been trying to skim the pool and empty the skimmer socks regularly, so there is not a high amount of visible stuff still in there. I've vacuumed a couple of times and got the visible stray big leaves out. There is still brown dust coming off the bottom of the pool in some spots when I brush since using the manual vacuum with the brushes on it instead of wheels is so tedious and hard to move.
On 2/3 I tested my fill water and got:
FC= 2.0
CC = 0.5
On 3/14 it shows I tested again and got:
FC = 2.5
CC = 1.5
This morning I just tested our tap water and got:
FC = 1.0
CC = 1.0
Maybe all the discrepancy is testing error? I do recall in the beginning letting the sample sit, and when I noticed it had become pink again I added more drops and counted those. But I've subsequently read that that is normal and you don't keep adding drops.
This morning, I also tested the pool water and got: (pretty certain I'm following the directions right now.)
FC = 0.5
CC = 1.5
I don't know if it could be a problem but we have an autofill line that is not fully functional yet (since it isn't hooked up to a water line), but has water entering it from the pool. Before the pool was filled it had collected leaves in it, but those were vacuumed out with a shop vac before we filled the pool. I never did anything special to clean the autofill tub though. The skimmers also show residual dirt on some horizontal surfaces that has never been scrubbed from when leaves collected there before the fill.
So... In light of all that, how do I raise and maintain the FC at 2.0? I see how to make the calculations in Pool Math, but then how often do we test and add? One problem is that I am leaving today until Sunday, and my husband and kids will be gone all day tomorrow. Can we address the chlorine if we are not here the whole time?
I'm leaving in a couple of hours, so any help would be appreciated! I can leave instructions with my husband and we can get what he needs after I figure out how much what that is.
Yes, we do have plenty of stuff dumping in the pool from our oak trees. I've been trying to skim the pool and empty the skimmer socks regularly, so there is not a high amount of visible stuff still in there. I've vacuumed a couple of times and got the visible stray big leaves out. There is still brown dust coming off the bottom of the pool in some spots when I brush since using the manual vacuum with the brushes on it instead of wheels is so tedious and hard to move.
On 2/3 I tested my fill water and got:
FC= 2.0
CC = 0.5
On 3/14 it shows I tested again and got:
FC = 2.5
CC = 1.5
This morning I just tested our tap water and got:
FC = 1.0
CC = 1.0
Maybe all the discrepancy is testing error? I do recall in the beginning letting the sample sit, and when I noticed it had become pink again I added more drops and counted those. But I've subsequently read that that is normal and you don't keep adding drops.
This morning, I also tested the pool water and got: (pretty certain I'm following the directions right now.)
FC = 0.5
CC = 1.5
I don't know if it could be a problem but we have an autofill line that is not fully functional yet (since it isn't hooked up to a water line), but has water entering it from the pool. Before the pool was filled it had collected leaves in it, but those were vacuumed out with a shop vac before we filled the pool. I never did anything special to clean the autofill tub though. The skimmers also show residual dirt on some horizontal surfaces that has never been scrubbed from when leaves collected there before the fill.
So... In light of all that, how do I raise and maintain the FC at 2.0? I see how to make the calculations in Pool Math, but then how often do we test and add? One problem is that I am leaving today until Sunday, and my husband and kids will be gone all day tomorrow. Can we address the chlorine if we are not here the whole time?
I'm leaving in a couple of hours, so any help would be appreciated! I can leave instructions with my husband and we can get what he needs after I figure out how much what that is.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,707
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Clorox beach, no scent and no "splash less", just plain ole 8.25% Clorox bleach. Use pool math to figure out your amounts. Pour slowly in front of a fast moving return in the deep end. Give a quick little brush of the pool to help mix it all up.
Is this City water you are filling with? I'm sorry, I don't remember where you are. Meaning if you have well or city water.
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks, Matt. How often to we have to test and add throughout the day? My husband will be here much of today, but tomorrow will be leaving early and coming home late. I'm still going to have him fit in taking care of the PH those times, but will that me enough time to give attention to the chlorine?
Hi Patrick. We are on city water (not well water.)
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Most days have been mostly sun. Today is supposed to be mostly cloudy, although tomorrow is supposed to be sunny again.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,707
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Test in the morning and dose. If you want to or are able to, test again in an hour or so to see where you're at. Or, if time is short, just test and dose in the morning. You're aiming for 2ppm but it's not super critical at the moment. Your puck floater is providing you with a continuous (albeit small) dose throughout the day so I'm not all that worried. Keeping your startup regimen on track is the top priority at this point.
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thank you, Matt. That sounds pretty straightforward and we should be able to manage that. Can/should we keep the pucks in the pool while we do this?
- May 23, 2015
- 25,707
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Yup. No problem. Just don't pour bleach on the pucks, that's a no-no.
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Update:
This morning before I left, based on PoolMath my husband added 62 oz of 8.25% bleach to go from 0.5 to 2.0 ppm. (PoolMath says "weight" but we did it by volume. I can't figure out how to change it to volume? Also, FYI, the latest date code he could find on the bleach was 16078...)
After an hour we tested and still were only at 0.5. Thinking perhaps the pool wasn't circulated enough, we turned the pump on high for a long while, and then not long ago, because he had to go out, he tested again, and got an even lighter pink reading in the vial, which cleared up after one drop. So FC=0.5 or less.
He has just added another 64 oz (approx. since it was the rest of the jug) and will test in an hour.
I am gone now and checking in remotely. Is there something we are doing wrong, or something we need to change? He said there has been a little sun today, but it seems strange that the FC won't come up at all, and seems even less.
Thanks for your help!
This morning before I left, based on PoolMath my husband added 62 oz of 8.25% bleach to go from 0.5 to 2.0 ppm. (PoolMath says "weight" but we did it by volume. I can't figure out how to change it to volume? Also, FYI, the latest date code he could find on the bleach was 16078...)
After an hour we tested and still were only at 0.5. Thinking perhaps the pool wasn't circulated enough, we turned the pump on high for a long while, and then not long ago, because he had to go out, he tested again, and got an even lighter pink reading in the vial, which cleared up after one drop. So FC=0.5 or less.
He has just added another 64 oz (approx. since it was the rest of the jug) and will test in an hour.
I am gone now and checking in remotely. Is there something we are doing wrong, or something we need to change? He said there has been a little sun today, but it seems strange that the FC won't come up at all, and seems even less.
Thanks for your help!
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
My husband just tested again after the dose of 62 oz of bleach that was supposed to bring us from 0.5 to 2. His results were:
FC=1.0
CC=0.5
Based on the FC reading, we would add 41 oz of bleach to try to get it up to 2. Since the initial dose of 62 oz wasn't as effective as expected, is there something else we should be doing?
Also, does bleach lower PH? The PH was 8.0 this morning and we targeted 7.8 by dosing, but it is at 7.7 tonight. But maybe we just overestimated the PH this morning and overshot by a bit on the acid. I know the PH will come up, but I was just curious.
Thanks again for your help!
FC=1.0
CC=0.5
Based on the FC reading, we would add 41 oz of bleach to try to get it up to 2. Since the initial dose of 62 oz wasn't as effective as expected, is there something else we should be doing?
Also, does bleach lower PH? The PH was 8.0 this morning and we targeted 7.8 by dosing, but it is at 7.7 tonight. But maybe we just overestimated the PH this morning and overshot by a bit on the acid. I know the PH will come up, but I was just curious.
Thanks again for your help!