Anyone know how to get the IntelliPH working without an IntelliChlor attached (do have the controller for the IntelliChlor, but won't auto feed the IntelliPH without IntelliChlor).
Get IntelliPH working without InteliChlor?
- Thread starter dfattfp
- Start date
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
So lets get the equipment sorted out first.
You have a functioning IntellipH, right? With the IntellipH controller? Are they still under warranty?
What do you mean by the "IntelliChlor Controller?" Do you mean the external transformer? Or does your EasyTouch have the transformer built in?
Do you still have the IntelliChlor? And if so, what is wrong with it?
And just curious, why don't you just replace the IntelliChlor?
You have a functioning IntellipH, right? With the IntellipH controller? Are they still under warranty?
What do you mean by the "IntelliChlor Controller?" Do you mean the external transformer? Or does your EasyTouch have the transformer built in?
Do you still have the IntelliChlor? And if so, what is wrong with it?
And just curious, why don't you just replace the IntelliChlor?
I have the IntelliPH and yes, the IntelliPH controller (to which the IntelliChlor would connect - that's what I meant). So the IntellPH controller connects to the EasyTouch where the IntelliChlor would attach. I don't think I kept any of the IntelliChlors, I may have one, but using fresh water now. I don't use them because they only last a couple years, don't work in the winter, uses more acid, and still have to drain every couple of years. I like the fresh water for diving and exercise as you float less.
d,
I saw your question and said to myself.. "Of course you can use the IntellipH without the salt cell, what company would design an acid feeder that was not standalone?"
Then I read the manual and it appears Pentair engineers are not all that sharp... It appears to me that the IntellipH has no power supply so you would need the IntelliChlor's power supply to make it work.. But wait, that is not bad enough, you also need feedback from the cell showing the flow switch is closed and that the cell is operating.
I added the IntellipH to my list of things I do NOT want for Christmas...
I suspect that you were using an IC40 salt cell, which is way too small for the size of you pool.. When you say "Fresh Water" I assume you mean a regular chlorine pool and not a saltwater pool..
Thanks,
Jim R.
I saw your question and said to myself.. "Of course you can use the IntellipH without the salt cell, what company would design an acid feeder that was not standalone?"
Then I read the manual and it appears Pentair engineers are not all that sharp... It appears to me that the IntellipH has no power supply so you would need the IntelliChlor's power supply to make it work.. But wait, that is not bad enough, you also need feedback from the cell showing the flow switch is closed and that the cell is operating.
I added the IntellipH to my list of things I do NOT want for Christmas...
I suspect that you were using an IC40 salt cell, which is way too small for the size of you pool.. When you say "Fresh Water" I assume you mean a regular chlorine pool and not a saltwater pool..
Thanks,
Jim R.
That's correct. That's what some say, the IC40 wasn't the correct one the pool builder used. Yeah, you can use the IntellPH in manual mode, press the button to manual add, say continue when it warns no cell, then it runs for the short period it runs. What kinds of timer could I get to wire it up myself?
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yes, Pentair, don't get me started...
So I'm thinking two possibilities, neither of which I've tried myself.
If you still had an IC, it might be possible to use it to "fool" the IpH. If it was inline, even if its plates were shot, maybe you could manipulate its flow switch wires in such a way that the IpH would think the water warm enough and that the flow was happening enough, for the IpH to dispense. You wouldn't actually defeat the flow switch, you'd want that working, you'd just disconnect the temp sender, or replace it with a resistor that would fool the IpH into thinking it was 70° water. I know the IpH uses the flow and temp from the IC. It can also monitor and control the IC functions, so if the cell is dead the IpH might not work for reasons other than flow and temp. I know the IpH won't dispense if the IC is set to zero output, so there's that to contend with, too. So this solution would require some experimenting. If it worked, you'd still have your non-SWG pool, but you'd have your IpH back.
The other possibility is to "re-engineer" the IpH to be just a dumb acid dispenser. You'd disconnect the IpH controller, and replace it with a simple transformer. You'd have to determine the voltage type and amount (12VDC? or 24VAC? etc). Then you could wire that transformer into the ET and maybe use one of its feature circuits to control it. Or use an entirely independent digital timer. You'd have to work out some sort of flow protection. Then you just schedule the IpH motor to pump acid for x amount of seconds or minutes, y amount of times per day. The same way that Stenner pump users do it. And there are plenty of threads here that describe how Stenner users schedule their pumps and protect for flow sensing, etc.
Nothing "off-the-shelf" about these solutions, but one or both should be possible if you have the skills and motivation to pull them off.
It does remind me though, that I do have similar concerns about my IC. I haven't had one work for over a year yet, let alone the seven I should theoretically get based on chlorine need. And I'm not looking forward to losing it and the IpH come this winter. (I'm pretty sure my IpH will stop pumping when the water gets too cold for my IC, courtesy of more Pentair engineering brilliance). The excess acid demand is handled by the IpH, so I'm not concerned about that. And I am watching my salt level creep up, heading for a frequency of water exchanges I've yet to determine. I'm not sure how much the SWG or the IpH contribute to additional salt accumulation, that would happen at some rate anyway, so I'm not sure how fair it is to consider that a "fault" of either machine. But, yah, neither gizmo is without its own set of compromises. I just know I spent a summer not dosing anything into my pool, and the chem balance has been virtually perfect the whole time, with a bare minimum of controller adjustment. If I can get that for 9 or 10 months a year, I'm not sure how unreliable my IC would have to be before I give up that luxury. $100 a year towards SWG replacement? $200? $300? I dunno. I'm pretty lazy...
So I'm thinking two possibilities, neither of which I've tried myself.
If you still had an IC, it might be possible to use it to "fool" the IpH. If it was inline, even if its plates were shot, maybe you could manipulate its flow switch wires in such a way that the IpH would think the water warm enough and that the flow was happening enough, for the IpH to dispense. You wouldn't actually defeat the flow switch, you'd want that working, you'd just disconnect the temp sender, or replace it with a resistor that would fool the IpH into thinking it was 70° water. I know the IpH uses the flow and temp from the IC. It can also monitor and control the IC functions, so if the cell is dead the IpH might not work for reasons other than flow and temp. I know the IpH won't dispense if the IC is set to zero output, so there's that to contend with, too. So this solution would require some experimenting. If it worked, you'd still have your non-SWG pool, but you'd have your IpH back.
The other possibility is to "re-engineer" the IpH to be just a dumb acid dispenser. You'd disconnect the IpH controller, and replace it with a simple transformer. You'd have to determine the voltage type and amount (12VDC? or 24VAC? etc). Then you could wire that transformer into the ET and maybe use one of its feature circuits to control it. Or use an entirely independent digital timer. You'd have to work out some sort of flow protection. Then you just schedule the IpH motor to pump acid for x amount of seconds or minutes, y amount of times per day. The same way that Stenner pump users do it. And there are plenty of threads here that describe how Stenner users schedule their pumps and protect for flow sensing, etc.
Nothing "off-the-shelf" about these solutions, but one or both should be possible if you have the skills and motivation to pull them off.
It does remind me though, that I do have similar concerns about my IC. I haven't had one work for over a year yet, let alone the seven I should theoretically get based on chlorine need. And I'm not looking forward to losing it and the IpH come this winter. (I'm pretty sure my IpH will stop pumping when the water gets too cold for my IC, courtesy of more Pentair engineering brilliance). The excess acid demand is handled by the IpH, so I'm not concerned about that. And I am watching my salt level creep up, heading for a frequency of water exchanges I've yet to determine. I'm not sure how much the SWG or the IpH contribute to additional salt accumulation, that would happen at some rate anyway, so I'm not sure how fair it is to consider that a "fault" of either machine. But, yah, neither gizmo is without its own set of compromises. I just know I spent a summer not dosing anything into my pool, and the chem balance has been virtually perfect the whole time, with a bare minimum of controller adjustment. If I can get that for 9 or 10 months a year, I'm not sure how unreliable my IC would have to be before I give up that luxury. $100 a year towards SWG replacement? $200? $300? I dunno. I'm pretty lazy...
What is the best article or forum post for setting up the pump (I can probably just rewire the IntelliPH since that's the type of pump on the unit already)?
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I don't know I have the best, but I did write about my install here:
Being Held Hostage By My Pool!!! (aka Intelliph installation))
Skip ahead to #29 if you don't want all the background. But do read a bit farther on, where I describe what I did wrong.
I'm not sure I described the actual mounting. I screwed mine down to the concrete pad with SS screws.
Beware the o-ring on the lid. Either I or the original packer pinched it when putting on the lid. I had to order a replacement, because it's important that the lid seals well. That protects fumes from getting out and corroding nearby metal.
And later in the thread I discuss the venting. I'm not actually done with that yet, so I'll be updating the thread in a few days when I redo it.
Being Held Hostage By My Pool!!! (aka Intelliph installation))
Skip ahead to #29 if you don't want all the background. But do read a bit farther on, where I describe what I did wrong.
I'm not sure I described the actual mounting. I screwed mine down to the concrete pad with SS screws.
Beware the o-ring on the lid. Either I or the original packer pinched it when putting on the lid. I had to order a replacement, because it's important that the lid seals well. That protects fumes from getting out and corroding nearby metal.
And later in the thread I discuss the venting. I'm not actually done with that yet, so I'll be updating the thread in a few days when I redo it.
looking to actually just use the tank and pump, but need some type of timer/transformer for it?
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
That's what I'm thinking. You might look around in the Stenner threads here, as those folks have experience putting together the various parts you'll need.
d,
Since the IntellipH uses the SWCG power to run, then the pump must be running off of 30 to 40 volts DC.. The only voltage that goes to the cell is DC...
Jim R.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
From the front label on my IntellipH controller, verify yours reads the same:
Here's a couple on Amazon that would likely work, either less than 10 bucks:
With a standard AC plug:
Amazon.com: COOLM 24V 1A 24W DC Power Supply Adapter 100-240V AC to 24V DC Power Transformer AC/DC Power Adapter Charger DC Connector Size 5.5mm x 2.5mm with US Plug: Electronics
Perhaps one you could mount and wire inside your ET:
Amazon.com: Aiposen 110V/220V AC to DC 24V 1A 24W Switch Power Supply Driver,Power Transformer for CCTV Camera/Security System/LED Strip Light/Radio/Computer Project(24V 1A): Electronics
I'd be tempted to wire up a transformer to an ET circuit, which means I could schedule it, and set it up so that it could only run when the pump did. Though I'm not sure how fine a control you get with an ET.
I gotta hand that back over to Jim.
Jim - Can he schedule one of his relays for as little as a minute (assuming he has an available relay)? Maybe twice a day? And ensure it only goes off when the main pump is running? He'd be operating without a flow switch this way, which is a bit risky. That'd be a whole other level of circuitry needed. I guess he could add a flow switch and wire that in series somehow, so that even if the schedule fired, the pump wouldn't get voltage unless the flow switch was closed (flow on).
dfattfp - Do you have any available relays? Do you have one or more available schedules?
If your ET can schedule something for as little as a minute at a time, and you need more acid than that, you could split that up: one minute twice a day, three times a day, etc, to even out your distribution. If you need less than a minute of acid injection, then you'd either need a dedicated timer that could do that, or you could dilute your acid in the tank, as in:
1 minute of 15% (1:1 dilution) acid would = 30 seconds of 31%, etc.
You're supposed to dilute the acid in the tank 1:1 anyway, but you could dilute further:
1 minute of 8% would equal 15 seconds of 31%.
Just a matter of figuring out the scheduling and dilution that works for your pool. In my thread I discuss a couple ways to get diluted acid into the tank.
I would wire up the pump motor to the transformer, remove the injector from your system, then run it for a minute into a measuring cup (gloves, mask and eye protection in place, or course!), then measure what came out. Do that a few times to get a good average, then base my scheduling on that and the known amount you need for your pool (whatever you've been adding manually). Just a little math...
I did this at my last house with my IPH. The pool was too big for the acid pump to keep up with and all the crazy programming that the controller needed to have to dose made it pretty frustrating.
I dumped the controller and used a transformer wired through an EasyTouch relay to run the pump each day for a few minutes.
I dumped the controller and used a transformer wired through an EasyTouch relay to run the pump each day for a few minutes.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Brian,
What kind of motor does the IpH have? I was under the impression that it ran off of the SWCG power supply, which would be DC volts, so how does the transformer work? Just trying to learn more..
Thanks,
Jim R.
It originally had a Shur-Flo pump head/motor but I switched to the newer stenner style pump head that the pumps come with now.
I used the IntelliChlor transformer in the ET wired to a relay after the voltage got stepped down to power the acid pump.
I used the IntelliChlor transformer in the ET wired to a relay after the voltage got stepped down to power the acid pump.
Brian,
Was the SWCG transformer powering both the cell and your acid pump motor?
I am thinking about an acid pump, so is the Stenner the better set up?
Jim R.
Yes it powered both as it does when you have the iph working as intended as well. I don't know that I would recommend doing this but if I was in your shoes the Stenner Pump might be a better option and I believe it's less money as well.
You have to take in consideration though that I had a pool that was too large for the iph to keep up with and most of what you're hearing was frustrations with that. With a standard size pool I don't see why the unit out-of-the-box wouldn't work for you, but it will not dispense when the intellichlor is determining salinity, water temperature is too low, no flow is detected,or basically any other minuscule issue the salt cell has other than normal operation.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I won't argue the unfortunate way that Pentair married the two devices. But the stock IpH does have some niceties the Stenner doesn't (only based on what I've read here, I've never used a Stenner). The vent, which theoretically can be used to carry acid fumes away from its location. The tank is sealed from atmosphere (another acid fume protection). The way it bolts to the pad. It won't dispense while the SWG is producing chlorine. It solves for figuring out how to time the Stenner to the pump run. It solves for flow protection the Stenner doesn't offer. It has several layers of protection against overdosing. It can be used to run the SWG in a pinch (together, neither the IC nor the IpH need an ET to run). And it has that cool Pentair cost-doubling logo!!
I don't I don't think the tank is so much vented but more of a one-way valve to allow air in so it doesn't create a vacuum inside of tank when the pump runs.
I had the iph inside of a closed room and I never smelled any acid fumes at all when the unit was sealed. I also didn't see any corrosion on any of the metal items that were nearby so in my eyes the canister was well built and seem to do a good job.
I too have never seen or dealt with a Stenner so I have no idea how it Compares but I can't imagine it's a whole lot different.
I had the iph inside of a closed room and I never smelled any acid fumes at all when the unit was sealed. I also didn't see any corrosion on any of the metal items that were nearby so in my eyes the canister was well built and seem to do a good job.
I too have never seen or dealt with a Stenner so I have no idea how it Compares but I can't imagine it's a whole lot different.
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