Gas fire pit - How to automate?

[wgipe]

Hi folks!

We finally got our pool mostly finished, and today I am laying up a dry-stacked stone fire pit that will have a gas insert. I would really like to find a way to hook the fire pit to automation so that I can light it from one of my IntelliCenter relays. I see some kits for 24V control, but the kit alone is 1,500 or more. I can’t believe that’s what it takes, as there are gas fireplaces sold with remotes for $400 in total. Does anyone know how I could go about doing this without spending a fortune?

@MyAZPool’s projects then got me to thinking....wouldn’t it be cool if, when the code is entered to open the cover (I have a cover expansion board and rotary encoder for my IntelliCenter), it would check sunset time and auto light the fire pit if it was dusk or after? All of the brains and equipment are there to make it happen - I’m just wondering if there’s a way to programmatically make it happen.

 

[ajw22]

I view it as a safety risk to automatically light a fire pit remotely where someone has not checked that the pit is clear or people, animals, or stuff.

That said, you have link to the fire pit controls you plan on using?

 

[mguzzy]

oooh.. yeah say the wind blew your deck chairs into the pit.. and you hit the button to open your cover.. viola, its the Ohio version of poolside Burning Man. Unless that was your intention all along, carry on!

 

[mguzzy]

Beautiful pool BTW!

 

[NCMike]

I'm using a Grand Effects fire pit insert that is controlled by my jandy pool automation. Its probably one of the expensive ones you found but it works great. With that said, I would also have no problem with a manual one. I'm a tech nerd, have smart switches all over the house, home server, ect... But automating fire does scare me a little bit. And I guess its actually just a smart fire pit, not really any automation to it. I just turn it on and off by my phone. I would be scared to automate it or have it come on if X, Y, and Z conditions are met. I also check it to make sure nothing flammable has blown into it or my kids aren't near it when I start it with my phone.

 

[wgipe]

Hi guys. Thanks for the safety warnings - duly noted. I, too, love to automate stuff and have done so with almost everything else in our home. Here: Remote Control Fire Module Flame Master Standard Capacity LP is a link to the type of controller I’m looking at. I just can’t hardly accept that a valve and a sensor is 1,700. Seems ridiculous. Has anyone built their own? Are there other options I’m missing?

 

[wgipe]

Beautiful pool BTW!

Thank you!

 

[Katodude]

This is a project that I have been thinking about tackling for about a year now. The concept is fairly simple. You need to turn a valve to start the gas flow and then light the fire.

US Solid seems to make a series of valves that might work. The only problem is that all the valves that are rated for gas are solenoid valves, and I would prefer a ball valve for this.

ussolid.com: Online Shopping for Motorized Ball Valves, Solenoid Valves, Cryogenic Containers, Analytical Balances, Lab Equipments, Medical Products & more

U.S. Solid

ussolid.com

The ignitor part is a little more complicated. I have a spark generator that might work, but I think the better approach is more like something they use to light a heater with. Have not really completed my research yet.

You should be able to build this for a couple of hundred dollars.

 

[PoolGate]

If your firepit has an option to flip a switch to start it, then you can add that to your automation to control it. Simply wire the fireplace switch into a relay and let the automation control the relay. Jandy automation has a dusk to dawn timer but I really don't think I'd set up a fireplace on a regular timer.

 

[phonedave]

This is a project that I have been thinking about tackling for about a year now. The concept is fairly simple. You need to turn a valve to start the gas flow and then light the fire.

And one more thing - a thermocouple or optical flame sensor to make sure the thing is actually lit, and not just venting gas all over the place.

I mean, you don't NEED that, but then you don't NEED to bond a pool either.

 

[Katodude]

The OP is looking for the ability to have a switch light his firepit.

Also re read the post, I don think he wants the firepit to turn on at dusk, but only turn of if it is dark, and he has opened the cover on his pool.

 

[phonedave]

Hi guys. Thanks for the safety warnings - duly noted. I, too, love to automate stuff and have done so with almost everything else in our home. Here: Remote Control Fire Module Flame Master Standard Capacity LP is a link to the type of controller I’m looking at. I just can’t hardly accept that a valve and a sensor is 1,700. Seems ridiculous. Has anyone built their own? Are there other options I’m missing?

I suspect part of the cost is to cover potential lawsuits. Seriously. People lighting the thing when there are kids in it, or the family dog, or a pool float.

This is basically what you need

https://www.grainger.com/product/30PL25?ef_id=CjwKCAjw47eFBhA9EiwAy8kzNFRAd2tV4rdmJwEGTUot3FxUEPCLRG86Cp3BFG9jsqeqrW6uGGu78hoCLjwQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!264955916045!!!g!436862786866!&gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gclid=CjwKCAjw47eFBhA9EiwAy8kzNFRAd2tV4rdmJwEGTUot3FxUEPCLRG86Cp3BFG9jsqeqrW6uGGu78hoCLjwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Its a 24V burner valve with a hot surface ignitor. Instead of a thermostat trigging it by calling for heat, you have your automation call for "heat". Heck, you could probably cobble together something on a Raspberry Pi in about an hour to make it work.

 

[phonedave]

The OP is looking for the ability to have a switch light his firepit.

Also re read the post, I don think he wants the firepit to turn on at dusk, but only turn of if it is dark, and he has opened the cover on his pool.

He wanted the fire pit to automatically light if it is after dusk and he has opened his cover.

In that case anybody that wants to open the pool would need to realize that opening the pool after dusk triggers the firepit, and they would have to remember to check the firepit before opening the pool to ensure that everything is OK with the firepit.

It is not a normal thought process "I want to open the pool cover, I better make sure the firepit is OK first"

Or even worse, the cover is open during the afternoon, people are swimming, then everybody goes inside the house and nobody has covered the pool - the sun dips down and the firepit lights up.

 

[phonedave]

This is a project that I have been thinking about tackling for about a year now. The concept is fairly simple. You need to turn a valve to start the gas flow and then light the fire.

US Solid seems to make a series of valves that might work. The only problem is that all the valves that are rated for gas are solenoid valves, and I would prefer a ball valve for this.

ussolid.com: Online Shopping for Motorized Ball Valves, Solenoid Valves, Cryogenic Containers, Analytical Balances, Lab Equipments, Medical Products & more

U.S. Solid

ussolid.com

The ignitor part is a little more complicated. I have a spark generator that might work, but I think the better approach is more like something they use to light a heater with. Have not really completed my research yet.

You should be able to build this for a couple of hundred dollars.

A solenoid valve is a valve that is electronically mechanically operated. You can get solenoid operated ball valves - and you can get solenoid operated gas ball valves. Not all ball valves are rated for gas.

V4295A1023 - Honeywell V4295A1023 - Solenoid, Normally Closed Gas Valve, 3/4" NPT Pipe Size, 2 PSI Rated

Honeywell V4295A1023 - Solenoid, Normally Closed Gas Valve, 3/4" NPT Pipe Size, 2 PSI Rated - <b>Overview:</b><br> V4295A/V8295A are normally closed and V4295S/V8295S are normally open (vent) solenoid gas valve. Suitable for use on furnaces, ovens, atmospheric burners, commercial water heaters...

www.supplyhouse.com

 

[PoolGate]

The one thing I am confused about is if you paid for a firepit, why didn't it come with the on/off mechanism? Your pool looks quite expensive I can't imagine they left this out.

 

[jseyfert3]

US Solid seems to make a series of valves that might work. The only problem is that all the valves that are rated for gas are solenoid valves, and I would prefer a ball valve for this.

There’s a reason for that. In this type of gas application you want the valve to shut when if power is lost so the gas doesn’t keep running with no way to shut off. Hence the use of solenoid valves. The solenoid opens the valve by pulling against a spring. If power is lost the solenoid stops pulling, the valve shuts due to the spring, and gas flow is stopped.

A solenoid valve is a valve that is electronically mechanically operated. You can get solenoid operated ball valves - and you can get solenoid operated gas ball valves. Not all ball valves are rated for gas.

V4295A1023 - Honeywell V4295A1023 - Solenoid, Normally Closed Gas Valve, 3/4" NPT Pipe Size, 2 PSI Rated

Honeywell V4295A1023 - Solenoid, Normally Closed Gas Valve, 3/4" NPT Pipe Size, 2 PSI Rated - <b>Overview:</b><br> V4295A/V8295A are normally closed and V4295S/V8295S are normally open (vent) solenoid gas valve. Suitable for use on furnaces, ovens, atmospheric burners, commercial water heaters...

www.supplyhouse.com

That’s a spring loaded valve not a ball valve?

In particular a solenoid only operates in a linear direction, and can only pull or push, not both. While a solenoid could be used for a ball valve with a complicated mechanism, it would be far from ideal. Not all electrically operated valves are solenoid valves.

 

[Katodude]

Ok so this is getting interesting. I just need a valve like @phonedave suggested with a 3/4” connection?

I supply it 24VAC when I want to turn it on and it supplies the power to the hot surface ignitor? Or do I need to provide power to the ignitor separately?

I dont know why the gas company set up a 3/4” valve but thats what I have.

 

[PoolGate]

I have 2 gas fireplaces in my house and the gas supply to both of them is always on. They both have gas cutoffs like you show, but I rarely use those. Sometimes in the summer when I know I will not be using it anymore and turn off the pilot light. Both of my fireplaces are automatic with pilot lights. One is battery with a remote and one electric with a wall switch. Both will automatically turn off the gas supply if the pilot light goes out (thermocoupler). I doubt that gas switch you show is designed to be turned on/off for lighting the fireplace. I suspect you have a pilot light somewhere or an automatic pilot light. I am fairly certain all modern gas fireplaces have a thermocoupler like I describe above to shut off gas flow when no flame is detected.

 

[phonedave]

Ok so this is getting interesting. I just need a valve like @phonedave suggested with a 3/4” connection?

I supply it 24VAC when I want to turn it on and it supplies the power to the hot surface ignitor? Or do I need to provide power to the ignitor separately?

I dont know why the gas company set up a 3/4” valve but thats what I have.

I picked that valve at random. You have to look at the specs of your fire pit and how it ignites. Many hot surface ignitors are 120V but there are 24V ones as well. I am assuming that is what your pit has, and not a standing pilot. Or maybe you have a manual sparker. You need to find a valve that works with your firepit. Once you have that, wiring it to a triggering deceive is the easy part.

 

[phonedave]

That’s a spring loaded valve not a ball valve?

In particular a solenoid only operates in a linear direction, and can only pull or push, not both. While a solenoid could be used for a ball valve with a complicated mechanism, it would be far from ideal. Not all electrically operated valves are solenoid valves.

I think you are right. I did a quick search for a a gas rated automatic ball valve and it came up. I didn't look that closely. They do exist, but they are not cheap, because as you said the mechanism is complicated and it needs to have a safety return to off. I'm not sure why anybody would want one anyway.