Fresh fill - cloudy water?
- Thread starter TheCatLady
- Start date
Can someone explain the science behind cc a bit? Does fcl just bond to contaminants and then off gas as chloramines so you should be left with no Cc? When you have persistent cc does it mean that there are contaminants in the water and that fcl constantly bonds with contaminants and off gasses? This part is a bit unclear to me.
I've been also using MPS in the past but decided not to this time as it throws off the Cc measurement.
By the way, what should the MPS measure at? I can test for it but I don't know where it's supposed to be at (this is just as general info for me, I don't plan on adding MPS).
I've been also using MPS in the past but decided not to this time as it throws off the Cc measurement.
By the way, what should the MPS measure at? I can test for it but I don't know where it's supposed to be at (this is just as general info for me, I don't plan on adding MPS).
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,019
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Maybe this will help…
www.troublefreepool.com
Dunno about the mps level - its not on poolmath (i hate calculating the toilet paper math on containers) & I can’t test it’s level with taylor reagents so its a no go for me. It’s also a known irritant so I just stick with chlorine for my oxidizing needs.
As far as I understand mps it’s not really meant to have a residual like fc (even though it tends to hang around skewing tests) because it’s not a sanitizer it’s only an oxidizer so basically you use it, it’s supposed to do its oxidizing work, the end. Repeat when you need more oxidizing.
CC - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
As far as I understand mps it’s not really meant to have a residual like fc (even though it tends to hang around skewing tests) because it’s not a sanitizer it’s only an oxidizer so basically you use it, it’s supposed to do its oxidizing work, the end. Repeat when you need more oxidizing.
MPS can break down stuff chlorine leaves behind. Some people are sensitive to it, and it does skew CC readings unless you use a neutralizing reagent (which I bought but find too much trouble figuring out how to use).
When I say can, perhaps it's just as accurate to say might ... it's controversial, and as @Mdragger88 pointed out, not "supported" by TFP.
All I can say is, the more "unsanctioned stuff" you throw into the water, the more likely you will throw off your chemistry or create issues you might otherwise not have had. And you are soaking in it ... yeah, there's that too.
I only mentioned it for the sake of completeness. I've used it two or three times over the past year when CC seemed to be getting hard to knock down with extra CHL and recall it did the job at least once. This in an attempt to keep water longer than I probably should have. Here's the expert's take on that
. Obviously, I'm not an expert
When I say can, perhaps it's just as accurate to say might ... it's controversial, and as @Mdragger88 pointed out, not "supported" by TFP.
All I can say is, the more "unsanctioned stuff" you throw into the water, the more likely you will throw off your chemistry or create issues you might otherwise not have had. And you are soaking in it ... yeah, there's that too.
I only mentioned it for the sake of completeness. I've used it two or three times over the past year when CC seemed to be getting hard to knock down with extra CHL and recall it did the job at least once. This in an attempt to keep water longer than I probably should have. Here's the expert's take on that
. Obviously, I'm not an expert
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,019
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Fwiw- in my 10+ years of pool ownership & 5+ years of hot tub ownership I’ve never used or felt the need to use mps. I’m sure it has it’s place like in indoor pools for instance.
I usually purge & change my spa water every 6-8 months. That’s about the time persistent cc’s of .5-1 arise that aren’t abolished with quick dose of slam level fc. My last batch of water was 10 months old before I just decided it was time. I have been using Ahhsome’s aqua clarity for over a year which seems to help me stretch it out a little more than the standard 6 months. My purges have come out clean since I began using it.
I’m sure the fact that my tub is quite small helps too as a good bit of water gets replaced due to splashout.
I usually purge & change my spa water every 6-8 months. That’s about the time persistent cc’s of .5-1 arise that aren’t abolished with quick dose of slam level fc. My last batch of water was 10 months old before I just decided it was time. I have been using Ahhsome’s aqua clarity for over a year which seems to help me stretch it out a little more than the standard 6 months. My purges have come out clean since I began using it.
I’m sure the fact that my tub is quite small helps too as a good bit of water gets replaced due to splashout.
Well, I have MPS, I can reliably test it, but I have nothing to compare the measurements against 
I'm now trying to dial in the swg settings. It was at level 5 out of 10 (so 50%). I had 1.6 Fcl yesterday morning with 0.3Cc. Added 4g of dichlor to get the Fcl to 4 and set the SWG to 5.
This morning, with no usage yesterday, FCl was at 2.8 with Cc still at 0.3.
In theory, the swg should produce about 8.2ppm FCl at level 5, so that would give me a total of almost 10ppm over 24 hours. WHERE did all of that go?
Should I raise to shock level again?
I have difficulty measuring FCl over 8 because that's the max for my tester. Is it accurate enough if I combine spa water with 50% distilled water and measure like that to see how much it drops and how fast?
Ps: just me and husband using it, we both shower before.
I'm now trying to dial in the swg settings. It was at level 5 out of 10 (so 50%). I had 1.6 Fcl yesterday morning with 0.3Cc. Added 4g of dichlor to get the Fcl to 4 and set the SWG to 5.
This morning, with no usage yesterday, FCl was at 2.8 with Cc still at 0.3.
In theory, the swg should produce about 8.2ppm FCl at level 5, so that would give me a total of almost 10ppm over 24 hours. WHERE did all of that go?
Should I raise to shock level again?
I have difficulty measuring FCl over 8 because that's the max for my tester. Is it accurate enough if I combine spa water with 50% distilled water and measure like that to see how much it drops and how fast?
Ps: just me and husband using it, we both shower before.
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,019
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
If you were using the tub it’s not unusual for 8ppm of fc to be consumed. You have a choice- try to rely on the swg for all your fc needs (which means cranking it up) or just count on it for standby fc & replenish your bather load fc after use.Well, I have MPS, I can reliably test it, but I have nothing to compare the measurements against
I'm now trying to dial in the swg settings. It was at level 5 out of 10 (so 50%). I had 1.6 Fcl yesterday morning with 0.3Cc. Added 4g of dichlor to get the Fcl to 4 and set the SWG to 5.
This morning, with no usage yesterday, FCl was at 2.8 with Cc still at 0.3.
In theory, the swg should produce about 8.2ppm FCl at level 5, so that would give me a total of almost 10ppm over 24 hours. WHERE did all of that go?
Should I raise to shock level again?
I have difficulty measuring FCl over 8 because that's the max for my tester. Is it accurate enough if I combine spa water with 50% distilled water and measure like that to see how much it drops and how fast?
Ps: just me and husband using it, we both shower before.
I do the latter for a couple of reasons-
*If I set my swg high enough to cover all my fc needs I would need to constantly adjust it & if I happened to not use the tub as frequently fc would climb too high quickly as I have a small tub.
* there’s a finite amount of fc that will be produced over the cell’s lifetime, I want my cell to last as long as possible.
This doesn’t mean I always have to dose after use especially if it’s a quick soak with only myself & fc was at the top of target range when my soak began, but it’s a definite must if I use the tub for more than 30 minutes or if there’s anyone but me. Testing immediately after use will tell the tale.
My tub is only a little smaller than yours , bather load is very high in a small tub because there’s alot of people compared to the amount of water- its like having 50+ people in a pool. It tanks your fc.
The swg produces fc slowly over time, dosing with liquid chlorine (or dichlor if needed) ensures you will get all the fc you need, when you need it.
But that's just it: I haven't used it since Thursday evening, that's why I'm surprised that most of the FCl is gone...
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,019
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Yeah, I probably do. I'll SLAM it a little next week. It's Easter here and we're planning on enjoying the tub this weekend. Cheers and thank you for all the help!
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,019
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
FYI, It is safe to swim with fc anywhere between minimum & slam level for your cya. Fc doesn’t last long in people soup lol
Raising it to slam level once probably wont last very long anyway but will help get you on the other side of the coin instead of playing catch up with old funky stuff. I would use it @ target fc levels, then raise to slam level when you get out.
No to ozone and uv lamp, just the swg and a silver ion filter, but I doubt the latter has any influence on FCl.
Surprisingly enough, we were in the tub for an hour today and the FCl only went down 1.5 ppm (from 3.5 to 2, measured just before and just after). Added enough dichlor to reach shock level, we'll see what it looks like tomorrow morning.
Would it be fine to aim for the swg to maintain 3 ppm and just add some extra chlorine after soaking? That would leave 1.5 ppm residual FCl when we get out, assuming 2 people that are in for an hour (which is rare, we usually stay in about 30 min).
Surprisingly enough, we were in the tub for an hour today and the FCl only went down 1.5 ppm (from 3.5 to 2, measured just before and just after). Added enough dichlor to reach shock level, we'll see what it looks like tomorrow morning.
Would it be fine to aim for the swg to maintain 3 ppm and just add some extra chlorine after soaking? That would leave 1.5 ppm residual FCl when we get out, assuming 2 people that are in for an hour (which is rare, we usually stay in about 30 min).
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,019
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
You want the swg to maintain target fc & you never want to dip below minimum (1.5 is below minimum)
The idea is you get in at upper target or a scootch higher & never risk falling below minimum before you get out, then replenish to target range if needed after your soak.
Do not be scared of adequate fc levels- they are what keeps you safe as you & your family enjoy your spa (aka - bowl of people soup).
The idea is you get in at upper target or a scootch higher & never risk falling below minimum before you get out, then replenish to target range if needed after your soak.
Do not be scared of adequate fc levels- they are what keeps you safe as you & your family enjoy your spa (aka - bowl of people soup).
You do know every time you add dichlor it's bumping up the CYA, result being you now need higher CHL level to maintain sanitation?
Also, you mentioned testing fc immediately after using the tub. What you leave behind in the tub after a soak likely takes time to sanitize ... fc may be even lower an hour or three later.
I look at it the next day, noting a typical demand for the number of bather-hours and add that afer a soak...
But anyway, your question was important. If losing fc, its killing stuff. The thing to do is check cc so you know if you are winning that fight
I do know I'm adding Cya, only using Dichlor until I get to 30 CYA.
The FCl minimum for my current CYA (around 15) is 1, so I thought it should be fine as it would still be over minimum. I plan to adjust accordingly as my CYA rises.
Cc has been at 0.3 ppm.
I tested immediately after getting out so I could add some more dichlor, because I'm not sure of the actual demand with the swg on since I've been adjusting it over the last days.
The FCl minimum for my current CYA (around 15) is 1, so I thought it should be fine as it would still be over minimum. I plan to adjust accordingly as my CYA rises.
Cc has been at 0.3 ppm.
I tested immediately after getting out so I could add some more dichlor, because I'm not sure of the actual demand with the swg on since I've been adjusting it over the last days.
Sounds good. There are two good reasons for doing that.
Without any CYA there is a higher probability that chlorine will be harsh on the skin and "sensitivities" (I've never had an issue that I can recall so can't really describe). Secondly, a lower minimum level without the buffering from cya means when you get in it gets used up and there goes your sanitation.
Don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't aim for that minimum. (maybe I should repeat that for emphasis? )
Same problem, it WILL drop below minimum, hence climbing CC. (Did I mention it will drop below minimum?)
CYA buffers the CHL, higher will not effect you in the way thay even much lower would without that CYA. Aim for the upper range until you know what you can get away with, use readings as you indicator for successful sanitation.
Please pause reading here and consider what that last paragraph means before you read through?
It means more chlorine (higher level) is safer and with that CYA in there it will not negatively effect you, even at up to SLAM levels. Recommending SLAM level would (mostly) just be a waste of money, as sanitation is achieved above the minimum normal range.
Never allow it to go below minimum
CYA can take time to disolve. Sometimes it sits in the filter for hours or days so I like to confirm by weight (volume?) added and math - though Poolmath works for that too. You should know the water gallons, but converse is useful because it can als tell you the gallons...
Sorry for coming off preachy, I want you enjoy you hot tub without risk to you health
No worries, I'm not one to easily get offended and also here to learn
I've sort of have it ingrained that higher FCl levels are bad for you and it's hard to ditch that mentality. I'll aim for higher levels until I know the demand and what level is needed to keep a safe residual.
I've both been calculating the amount of CYA I've added and also measuring it and it's about on par. Should be around 20 now after I've added some extra dichlor.
I've sort of have it ingrained that higher FCl levels are bad for you and it's hard to ditch that mentality. I'll aim for higher levels until I know the demand and what level is needed to keep a safe residual.
I've both been calculating the amount of CYA I've added and also measuring it and it's about on par. Should be around 20 now after I've added some extra dichlor.
No worries, I'm not one to easily get offended and also here to learn
I've sort of have it ingrained that higher FCl levels are bad for you and it's hard to ditch that mentality. I'll aim for higher levels until I know the demand and what level is needed to keep a safe residual.
I've both been calculating the amount of CYA I've added and also measuring it and it's about on par. Should be around 20 now after I've added some extra dichlor.
While I don't recall the article detail, I do know I read, comparitvely, drinking water out of the tap can have higher "active" (unbound...) Chlorine ppm than the hot tub. Not necessarily will have, but allowably can.
Just remember that if you smell chlorine it's chlorimines, and that means you have not had enough chlorine to keep the water sanitized.
Don't fret, this all becomes second nature
Here's something really fun that I discovered my pool tester app has - an active chlorine calculator!
Pictures pretty much speak for themselves:
Guess I'll be keeping my Fcl at a minimum of 4.
Here's the compounds from the inner circle (Fcl of 4, CYA 30):
Link to the app if someone wants to play with it: LabCom - Apps on Google Play
Pictures pretty much speak for themselves:
Guess I'll be keeping my Fcl at a minimum of 4.
Here's the compounds from the inner circle (Fcl of 4, CYA 30):
Link to the app if someone wants to play with it: LabCom - Apps on Google Play