Flow light on Intellichlor 40

[mcleod]

First pool. I start in this forum 'cause I don't know where to go. In late February, we installed a new Pentair SWG and a VSF pump. VSF set to run at 1950 rpm 24/7. Within a week, the flow light glowed red. Only rpm above 2300 turned it off. Sometimes I would use the Quick Clean program which remedied the issue, for awhile. Suspicion that the SWG was improperly plumbed (per Pentair) led to replumbing it with a straight pipe run from the the filter to the SWG. Remedied the issues, again for a while. It has settled into sometimes working properly, sometimes not. In discussions with @Dirk I explored the suction side of the system, which has 3 valves (drain, two skimmers), by shutting off two of the valves to determine if the problem could be a pipe/valve issue. Shutting down the left skimmer (left) and the drain turned off the red flow light in minutes, and the system functioned properly. Currently the right side skimmer is the only open valve but the problem returns intermittently, notably when the booster pump is activated. By end of today the right side skimmer will be closed, the left side will be opened to observe the process of this side.

The pipes leading the suction side valves are 1.5"; the valves, manifold ,and pipe are 2". Some observations on the pump. When the quick clean cycle is complete and the machine returns to 1950 rpm, the water in the basket is gurgling just under the cap. When the malfunction occurs the water level in the basket is five inches lower, just below the suction side opening. Not sure what is normal. Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[ajw22]

Post your water chemistry from your K-2006C test kit...

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
SALT

Do a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

I suspect algae is clogging your filter and slowing your flow.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mc,

I suspect that you just have a dirty filter.

None of this is magic... Either you have good flow, or you don't. If you can stick your hand in front of a running return and feel a good flow of water, then the flow switch in the cell should be closing.

Backwash your filter and see if the problem goes away. If it does, but then the problem comes back in a couple of days, it means you have algae.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

Interesting. I did not suspect a chemistry problem, but I've had him clean his filter, and bypass the filter altogether. I've asked him to document the various setups to find a pattern: turning on and off the various suction sources, with and without filter in the mix. He's got a multiport valve, but may or may not have figured out how to bypass for troubleshooting.

I've been leaning towards suction side leak, due to the pump filling with air.

@mcleod, show them the picture of the suction manifold, and post one of the multi-port valve.

 

[ajw22]

Interesting. I did not suspect a chemistry problem, but I've had him clean his filter, and bypass the filter altogether. I've asked him to document the various setups to find a pattern: turning on and off the various suction sources, with and without filter in the mix. He's got a multiport valve, but may or may not have figured out how to bypass for troubleshooting.

I've been leaning towards suction side leak, due to the pump filling with air.

@mcleod, show them the picture of the suction manifold, and post one of the multi-port valve.

There a thread where you went through all of that?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mc,

I learned a long time ago, that when troubleshooting you do two things..

1. Ignore anything anyone else did before you.

2. Look at the obvious before moving on to the unlikely.


Your failure could be related to a number of things, but it never hurts to start over just to make sure we did not miss the obvious.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

There a thread where you went through all of that?

No, @mcleod is a friend, so over the phone.

 

[Dirk]

Mc,

I learned a long time ago, that when troubleshooting you do two things..

1. Ignore anything anyone else did before you.

2. Look at the obvious before moving on to the unlikely.


Your failure could be related to a number of things, but it never hurts to start over just to make sure we did not miss the obvious.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Excellent approach. Perhaps I will stay out of this for now, so as not to stifle any ideas. After all, if I knew how to better troubleshoot this, it'd be fixed by now! Thanks in advance to all for helping!

 

[mcleod]

Post your water chemistry from your K-2006C test kit...
As of this morning..
FC 7
CC 0
pH 8
TA 80
CH 0 vinyl pool
CYA 60
SALT 3600 ppm

Do a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test 7/7

I suspect algae is clogging your filter and slowing your flow.

Interesting. I did not suspect a chemistry problem, but I've had him clean his filter, and bypass the filter altogether. I've asked him to document the various setups to find a pattern: turning on and off the various suction sources, with and without filter in the mix. He's got a multiport valve, but may or may not have figured out how to bypass for troubleshooting.

I've been leaning towards suction side leak, due to the pump filling with air.

@mcleod, show them the picture of the suction manifold, and post one of the multi-port valve.

@ @Dirk your wish is my command...

 

[ajw22]

What is the history of the pool?

When was it built?

You the first owner or you inherit it with the house?

Any signs of flex PVC being used?

 

[mcleod]

To recap in one place for @Dirk, @Jimrahbe, @ajw22. I have recirculated and backwashed the filter in the last ten days and
will do this morning. The impact has been temporary. After 4 days of operating on the right side skimmer only (the problem persisted), switched over to the left side skimmer a few minutes ago, and the flow light went off. This morning's chemistry report, as requested ajw is below, as are picture of the manifolds (both sides).

FC 7
CC 0
pH 8
TA 80
CH 0 vinyl pool
CYA 60
SALT 3600 ppm
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test 7/7

 

[mcleod]

What is the history of the pool?

When was it built?

You the first owner or you inherit it with the house?

Any signs of flex PVC being used?

Came with the house. Moved in early December. Vinyl sport pool 18x36'. Depth varies from 3.5' to 5' in the center. Appears to be all pvc pipe. Above ground is 2". Below ground pipe is 1.5". Sent a picture in another post. Heavy algae lurked under the cover. Weeks of interface with @Dirk eventually restored the clarity. Installation date unknown but it's a small town so I will check around to see if I can locate the installer. Some of the decorative edging has faded from sun.

 

[ajw22]

You have the VSF pump that displays RPM and gpm flow and watts.

When you are adjusting things report what your pump RPM and flow and watts are as you make your observations about changes in water flow. Both when things are working properly and when they are not.

 

[ajw22]

switched over to the left side skimmer a few minutes ago, and the flow light went off. This morning's chemistry report, as requested ajw is below, as are picture of the manifolds (both sides).

So is the flow light on the Intellichlor green or red today and do you have all green lights??

What is your pump RPM, GPM and watts?

 

[mcleod]

Thank you will do. It will be a day or two.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mc,

Before Dirk got involved, what all did you add to your pool water other than Liquid Chlorine.

You may have some suction side air leak, but to me, the problem still seems to be filter related.

Does your MPV have a recirculate or by-pass mode? If so, what happens when you put the MPV in recirculate?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mcleod]

Mc,

Before Dirk got involved, what all did you add to your pool water other than Liquid Chlorine.

You may have some suction side air leak, but to me, the problem still seems to be filter related.

Does your MPV have a recirculate or by-pass mode? If so, what happens when you put the MPV in recirculate?

Thanks,

Jim R.

@Dirk was involved from the get-go. We've been friends a long time. Nothing added other than liquid chlorine
I have no by-pass mode. do have a recirculate mode (and rinse, winterize, filter, waste settings) which I used about a week ago before the backwash function. perhaps didn't run recirculate long enough.
Suction side air leak, hmmm. I don't know how to diagnose that but here are some observations. After installation of the new pump the fittings had water leaks, subsequently repaired when swg re-plumbed. The pool return closest to the equipment pad is always emitting bubbles and makes a great deal of noise. the bubbles according to @Dirk are typical of the swg system (if I'm recalling him accurately). Have videos of the phenomenon.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mc,

The recirculate mode basically bypasses the filter. If the flow switch works when in when in recirculate mode, but not in the filter mode, it is an indication that the filter has an issue. It would also be interesting to see what the water in the pump basket looks like when in the recirculate mode vs. the filter mode.

I admit that I don't know much about sand filters, as I have a large cartridge filter, but I have noticed that the bubbles under my pump lid get larger as my filter gets dirty.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mcleod]

@Jimrahbe. @Dirk. @ajw22 Recap. of today

6:30 am. Have turned off the swg, no salt %
Readouts at pump @ 9:15am: 11psi. 23-24 gpm. 346 watts. FC test: 7
Overnight FC readings were down 1.

4:30pm
SWG operating fine. Flow light is green. Readouts at pump: 11psi. 17-18 gpm. 315 watts

6:45pm
Only one skimmer open
SWG showing flow red light; Level of salt is good.
Filter set to recirculate. Flow light goes to green
Readouts: filter 8psi. 11psi. 16gpm. 318 watts.
Took an FC test: 5 (down from 7 this morning)

7:55pm
Only one skimmer open
Filter on recirculate
Flow light is green. Water level in basket up, just underneath the cap.
Filter 3psi.
Pump: 11 psi. 36gpm. 399-404 watts

 

[mcleod]

@Jimrahbe @Dirk @ajw22 Update
This morning:
SWG: 0% salt generation (was turned off 14 hrs ago)
Filter: set to recirculate. 3psi
Pump running: 1950rpm. 397 watts. 34-35 gpm. 11psi. Water level in basket is just under the cap. Some air bubbles (normal?)
Chemistry:
FC 5 (same as yesterday evening)
CYA 60
pH 7.8
TA 80
CH 0
Sodium: 3600 ppm
Temp 84

What to do next?
FIlter on?
SWG on?
Switch to other skimmer & record events?