Filter pump losing suction

[Fishy1234]

About a year ago my pump was losing suction from skimmer, after investigating I found the skimmer basket was out of alignment. The inner tabs were not inside the 3 slots. So now the problem is happening again only this time after fixing the basket, the pump still loses suction, but not constantly.
When I look inside the pump basket it is full prior to start, then sometimes starts and runs with good pressure. Then for some odd reason the water in pump basket disappears, and pump is sucking air, no water. The skimmer basket is full of water, normal level in pool but no when pump loses suction, no water flowing.
I switch the electric suction valve to spa instead of pool and the pump will prime and run normal again until going back to pool mode.
I cleaned the filters as they were dirty and that seemed to make a difference for 2 days, but now its back to losing suction when in pool mode. Sometimes it runs normal for hours, sometimes a few minutes. So now I need help.

 

[Texas Splash]

Sounds like you may either have an intermittent suction side leak or something impeding flow within the pool suction line(s). Do you have a main drain? If so, is there any difference when pulling from the drain only. How about posting a pic or two of your equipment pad so we can see the suction plumbing and valves? It may help us analyze.

 

[Fishy1234]

Sounds like you may either have an intermittent suction side leak or something impeding flow within the pool suction line(s). Do you have a main drain? If so, is there any difference when pulling from the drain only. How about posting a pic or two of your equipment pad so we can see the suction plumbing and valves? It may help us analyze.

No drain. Pipe goes from pool skimmer to a 3 way manual valve that ties into the line for suction side cleaner, which is not use because I have electic robot now. Then from there to a electric 3 way valve that ties into the spa suction. From there to the pump. I will try to get some pics however if you look on here i posted them about a year ago.

 

[Fishy1234]

Sounds like you may either have an intermittent suction side leak or something impeding flow within the pool suction line(s). Do you have a main drain? If so, is there any difference when pulling from the drain only. How about posting a pic or two of your equipment pad so we can see the suction plumbing and valves? It may help us analyze.

 

[mknauss]

Appears you have some kind of floating weir skimmer? I would check out the parts of that to see if it is all working correctly.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sounds "Fishy" to me...

It appears that you have a floating weir basket. Are you sure that it is not intermittently sticking up?

What does your filter pressure show when working and then when not working?

What indicates to you that you have no flow?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Fishy1234]

Sounds "Fishy" to me...

It appears that you have a floating weir basket. Are you sure that it is not intermittently sticking up?

What does your filter pressure show when working and then when not working?

What indicates to you that you have no flow?

Thanks,

Jim R.

My neighbor came over looked at the floatng weir skimmer. He said it was up too high in his oppinion with pump running normal speed 2200rpm, 11psi. In pool clean mode 3400 rpm. 20psi it gets sucked down almost all the way.
We put a hose in the pipe at pump to back flush and clear water came out at skimmer.
So I thought to raise pump rpm from 2200 to 2500. Now the weir basket seems to be sitting a bit lower, and so far pump is running good for 1 hour however, I do hear an air bubble every so often from the skimmer. Perhaps I should raise the rpms more?
My neighbor still thinks i should replace the basket because he noticed it sticking a few times. When the pump is off the basket floats to the top.
Also the new pressure is 13psi at 2500rpm.

 

[Fishy1234]

Appears you have some kind of floating weir skimmer? I would check out the parts of that to see if it is all working correctly.

Please read my reply to Jimrahbe.
Thank you both

 

[Fishy1234]

Pictures how the water is flowing now with raised rpm to 2500.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Fishy,

As the pump runs it draws water over the top of your floating weir. This is why they call it a skimmer, as it skims off just the surface water along with any floating debris.

I do not have the same kind of weir, but I can run down to about a 1000 RPM and it still works. It seems to me yours should work about the same.

Seem like your weir is floating too high. When the pump is running, water should be moving over the top of your weir on a constant basis.

Let's see if @1poolman1 has seen your type of weir before... and if he as any ideas..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[1poolman1]

Fishy,

As the pump runs it draws water over the top of your floating weir. This is why they call it a skimmer, as it skims off just the surface water along with any floating debris.

I do not have the same kind of weir, but I can run down to about a 1000 RPM and it still works. It seems to me yours should work about the same.

Seem like your weir is floating too high. When the pump is running, water should be moving over the top of your weir on a constant basis.

Let's see if @1poolman1 has seen your type of weir before... and if he as any ideas..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Yes, I have seen many of those floating weirs. I usually removed them from pools and installed a regular, usually spring-loaded, weir in the throat as the skimmer was engineered to have. For my regular customers (when I was doing service), I wouldn't even charge as it made my life much easier, a pool with a working skimmer is easier to maintain so I just considered it a business cost. Never had a customer complain about the change back. They were very inexpensive, maybe $3.00 at most through wholesale, not like the crazy costs today. Most of the time the problem was that they would get stuck in the "up" position and starve the pump for water.

Some came along with their own skimmer basket as an assembly. There were slots in the inner diameter of the basket top that accepted the small tabs on the floating weir to keep it from rising too far and getting stuck "up". The baskets themselves were very brittle and broke so people would just get a regular basket and put the floating weir in it, creating problems.

In the pictures Fishy1234 sent, you can see a vortex. Air is being pulled in along with water. Most likely that is his problem. I've seen that happen with these as well. Always considered them an idea that seemed good but didn't work in practice. I would never sell them, but people would find them online and get them anyway. Pentair still makes them as well as Aladdin and Pool Tools, that I know of. I haven't seen them at a distributor for many years.

 

[Fishy1234]

Fishy,

As the pump runs it draws water over the top of your floating weir. This is why they call it a skimmer, as it skims off just the surface water along with any floating debris.

I do not have the same kind of weir, but I can run down to about a 1000 RPM and it still works. It seems to me yours should work about the same.

Seem like your weir is floating too high. When the pump is running, water should be moving over the top of your weir on a constant basis.

Let's see if @1poolman1 has seen your type of weir before... and if he as any ideas..

Thanks,

Jim R.

I found the original paperwork. Its a pentair Admiral S-20 Skimmer.

When my neighbor came over he told me the skimmer basket had a whirlpool and that air is being sucked in with water because of the whirlpool. The basket was close to the surface and to me its always been that way, but I never measured how deep. So to get the basket lower I raised rpms. and now its about 1 inch deep. With the wind im seeing it bobbing up and down alot.

 

[Fishy1234]

Yes, I have seen many of those floating weirs. I usually removed them from pools and installed a regular, usually spring-loaded, weir in the throat as the skimmer was engineered to have. For my regular customers (when I was doing service), I wouldn't even charge as it made my life much easier, a pool with a working skimmer is easier to maintain so I just considered it a business cost. Never had a customer complain about the change back. They were very inexpensive, maybe $3.00 at most through wholesale, not like the crazy costs today. Most of the time the problem was that they would get stuck in the "up" position and starve the pump for water.

Some came along with their own skimmer basket as an assembly. There were slots in the inner diameter of the basket top that accepted the small tabs on the floating weir to keep it from rising too far and getting stuck "up". The baskets themselves were very brittle and broke so people would just get a regular basket and put the floating weir in it, creating problems.

In the pictures Fishy1234 sent, you can see a vortex. Air is being pulled in along with water. Most likely that is his problem. I've seen that happen with these as well. Always considered them an idea that seemed good but didn't work in practice. I would never sell them, but people would find them online and get them anyway. Pentair still makes them as well as Aladdin and Pool Tools, that I know of. I haven't seen them at a distributor for many years.

I see in the Pentair Admiral S20 manual it came with both a basket and weir gate, and the floating weir. So the pool builder chose to use the floating weir, probably easier. The picture you see are with pump running at 2500 rpms. It was 2200rpms. Should I replace the floating weir baskets, with the same? Im not sure how to install the other option.

 

[1poolman1]

I found the original paperwork. Its a pentair Admiral S-20 Skimmer.

When my neighbor came over he told me the skimmer basket had a whirlpool and that air is being sucked in with water because of the whirlpool. The basket was close to the surface and to me its always been that way, but I never measured how deep. So to get the basket lower I raised rpms. and now its about 1 inch deep. With the wind im seeing it bobbing up and down alot.

Originally came with a weir door as shown. You may want to get one and replace that floating weir.

 

[Fishy1234]

Originally came with a weir door as shown. You may want to get one and replace that floating weir.
View attachment 458621

So now I have a few questions.
1. Does the flap snap in place? I found replacement flap on Amazon.
2. Will I need to get the original basket that came with it? I found replacement on Amazon.
3. When it is windy (most of time here) will the waves cause a problem with suction?

 

[1poolman1]

So now I have a few questions.
1. Does the flap snap in place? I found replacement flap on Amazon.
2. Will I need to get the original basket that came with it? I found replacement on Amazon.
3. When it is windy (most of time here) will the waves cause a problem with suction?

Yes, weir will snap into place.
Basket you have may be fine, most skimmers no longer have OEM baskets in them.
The weir door won't be affected by wave action other than it might make a "clicking' noise if it is really windy as the weir hits the little stop at the top of the skimmer opening. Happens if swimmers are very active as well. Weir doors usually only affect suction when they get stuck in the "up" position. That seldom happens with an OEM door, can happen more easily with a spring-loaded one.

 

[Fishy1234]

Yes, weir will snap into place.
Basket you have may be fine, most skimmers no longer have OEM baskets in them.
The weir door won't be affected by wave action other than it might make a "clicking' noise if it is really windy as the weir hits the little stop at the top of the skimmer opening. Happens if swimmers are very active as well. Weir doors usually only affect suction when they get stuck in the "up" position. That seldom happens with an OEM door, can happen more easily with a spring-loaded one.

Thank you and everyone else for all the help. I am going to take your recommendation and order the gate, and basket.

 

[Fishy1234]

Yes, weir will snap into place.
Basket you have may be fine, most skimmers no longer have OEM baskets in them.
The weir door won't be affected by wave action other than it might make a "clicking' noise if it is really windy as the weir hits the little stop at the top of the skimmer opening. Happens if swimmers are very active as well. Weir doors usually only affect suction when they get stuck in the "up" position. That seldom happens with an OEM door, can happen more easily with a spring-loaded one.

Sorry to bother you again but i noticed a weir rubber stopper is recommended on amazon. Do i need that? If so where does it go?

 

[1poolman1]

Sorry to bother you again but i noticed a weir rubber stopper is recommended on amazon. Do i need that? If so where does it go?

If you look at the picture, it appears to be located right at the top of the throat, dead center. Don't remember ever seeing or replacing one. Check your skimmer before buying.

 

[Fishy1234]

Got home late and needed to add chlorine before starting the pump I checked and the floating basket was above the water line, the pump basket was full. When Pump started the water in pump basket got sucked out, then it lost suction. I checked and weir basket was still up above water line so I pushed it down however the water was not moving, and basket just popped back up. I went back to pump and saw some water going into basket as it was still trying to prime. So I held the weir basket all the down and within a minute the pump ran normal.
So does this still sound like a bad weir basket?
I ordered the weir flap. basket. and rubber bumper thing.