Electrical Panel Woe

[Brtuffli]

I don’t know if this matter has come up before, but I wanted to get some thoughts. We have an outdoor area where all the pool equipment is located, including the electrical panel for the equipment. In the past three years we have experienced two breaker failures, one in the 220v pump circuit, and one in the 110v pool light circuit. Both were discovered when opening the pool up for the new season, and both were repaired by replacing the breaker. Someone suggested to me that I cover the panel in plastic during the winter months to keep it dry.
My concern is that covering it in plastic may provide an even greater wet and humid environment because of condensation formation and losing the ability of the panel to dry out after a rain or snow.
Maybe a small plastic or wooden piece directly over the panel which would act as a roof? Or is the plastic-wrap option a good one?
Another issue just occurred to me: there are many large ants that have accumulated and congregate in the bottom of the box in the beginning of each season. I spray ant killer and repellent and they don’t appear any more that season. Can insects affect the operation of breakers?
Any thoughts or solutions are appreciated, especially from an electrician with knowledge on this subject.

 

[JamesW]

Pictures?

 

[Brtuffli]

Here’s two shots showing the location of the equipment. The pool is above the equipment. You can see the steps to the pool level at the left of the photo and the retaining wall at the right. The electrical panel is unfortunately not sheltered by the walkway above.

 

[newdude]

It looks like it seals well enough. What condition are the guts behind the breakers ? Any chance they're old/weathered and tarnishing the new breakers ?

Ants on the bottom of the panel won't matter so long as they aren't shorting out any zappy parts.

 

[JamesW]

Ants can get into the electronics and cause problems.

Is there water getting into the box?

Is the box outdoor rated?

 

[JamesW]

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[JamesW]

Can you remove the panel cover plate and show inside?

Note: Do not do anything you are not sure you can do safely.

Can you also show the label on the door?

Are the lights on a GFCI?

 

[Brtuffli]

When I removed the defective breakers to replace them, the area behind them was perfectly clean.
The box didn’t appear to be wet at all inside, but by the time I inspected it (maybe weeks or months later) it could have dried out.
The whole system was installed in 2015 by certified electricians who do a lot of work for pool companies. How do you know if a box is outdoor rated? I can’t imagine a reputable electrician installing an inappropriate box.

 

[ajw22]

Does the label on the inside of the door say that box is NEMA 3R (outdoor) rated?

 

[newdude]

When I removed the defective breakers to replace them, the area behind them was perfectly clean.
The box didn’t appear to be wet at all inside

Ok GREAT. The inside could have been various shades of green/brown accelerating the decay of the new breakers. Or old green ends of the wires reused without stripping back to fresh.

Do you leave it powered over the winter or do you shut the house breaker feeding it off. I see no reason to leave mine energized when it's not in use.

 

[Brtuffli]

Here is a photo of the innards of the box. The red ellipse on the left is the pump breaker that I replaced two years ago, and the one on the right is the pool light breaker I replaced this year. The other photo is the label on the cover that says “rainproof” and has the “3R” designation that one of you asked about.

 

[JamesW]

The ants can be a problem.

The door label looks damp and moldy, which can indicate the presence of excessive moisture for some reason.

In the past three years we have experienced two breaker failures, one in the 220v pump circuit, and one in the 110v pool light circuit.

What was the exact failure of the breakers?

 

[Bill1974]

I think I have the same panel and breakers and have had a GFCI (120v 20A) fail after a few years too. It too, did not have signs of water getting in it and no signs of bugs either. Might just be are more susceptible failure in an environment where condensation is likely. I don't see any signs of corrosion and the wiring looks well done.

If any of your conduit goes to a pool lights you may want to seal the conduit with duct seal to limit water vapor from it. The reality is a lot of outdoor and buried conduit get water in it from condensation.

Putting a bag over probably isn't a great idea as it might seal in the moisture. Putting something over it to shed the water away shouldn't hurt it.

My breakers rarely get toggled, and are left on year round. None are used to turn anything on or off, everything powered from this panel has separate switches.

 

[DrewLG]

My concern is that covering it in plastic may provide an even greater wet and humid environment because of condensation formation and losing the ability of the panel to dry out after a rain or snow.
Maybe a small plastic or wooden piece directly over the panel which would act as a roof?

Roof is a good idea. You could use strong magnets, epoxied to the roof, to securely fasten it to the box without needing to drill holes.

Whether you build that roof or not, a properly sized desiccant pack or two inside will prevent condensation. These are nice because they change color to indicate when they're saturated (after which they can be easily dried out and reused):

https://www.amazon.com/Dry-Silica-Indicating-Packets-Desiccant/dp/B07WK6HYNH

 

[Brtuffli]

Roof is a good idea. You could use strong magnets, epoxied to the roof, to securely fasten it to the box without needing to drill holes.

Whether you build that roof or not, a properly sized desiccant pack or two inside will prevent condensation. These are nice because they change color to indicate when they're saturated (after which they can be easily dried out and reused):

https://www.amazon.com/Dry-Silica-Indicating-Packets-Desiccant/dp/B07WK6HYNH

I never considered desiccants before and think it’s a brilliant idea. I would probably have to check on a regular basis to confirm they’re not saturated, and we’re gone for 7 weeks in the winter, so that’s problematic. Thanks, Drew, for the suggestion. I’ll give it a try this winter.