Does our pool/spa return plumbing make sense?

[CA_Tallguy]

Hi folks - hoping to get some input on our old pool/spa return plumbing as we are updating some items. The system is labeled in the attached photo, to the best of my ability. We do have a spillover from the spa.

Does this look reasonable or would updates/changes be suggested? We realize we can do a heater bypass by adding a diverter valve after the filter and then routing directly to the SWG (after a heater return tee).

In particular....

• REALITY CHECK -- is this a normal setup for pool/spa mode plumbing (with spa spillover)? The crossover pipe was confusing to us until we realized only one goes to the jets. When in spa mode, it makes sense not to return hot water to the floor inlet, so as not to have the floor suction immediately remove the heated water just returned. But this does not look like the example pool/spa plumbing plans I have reviewed on sites like Inyo.
• PIPE HEIGHT -- the "cross pipe" for pool mode is likely below spa waterline. Would we benefit from raising that or other pipes up? I thought maybe we'd not even need a check valve if it were higher but that might not matter unless there were some kind of air gap/vent on the loop to break any suction.
• VALVES -- how important are the individual valves on the pool/spa returns? Can we eliminate one or both? Since we can in theory drain the spa without much effort, it seems like that is unnecessary (and a leaking seal on it is one reason we are undertaking repairs).

Thanks in advance for any advice and suggestions.

 

[Jimrahbe]

T-guy,

Take two steps back and show us a couple more pics. From a couple of different angles.

In the spa mode water is sucked out of the spa drain then sent through the heater and back to the spa. Having the floor inlet working won't make any difference at all.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

@Jimrahbe we have already torn out most of what you see but let me try to find some pics that can make sense of the whole thing.

As for the spa -- it seems like it might be less than optimal to suction directly adjacent to an inlet/return, before there has been much chance for mixing. No? I'm just trying to guess as to why they have split the spa into two returns, and only one is being used in spa mode (the jets, not the floor). Feet may get superheated too!? Just trying to understand why they did it this way. Otherwise, perhaps we should combine the floor return with the jets? (Combining was my original thought until I realized the floor inlet/suction proximity.)

 

[Jimrahbe]

T-guy,

I can't tell for sure, but I suspect that the floor return is what causes your spa to overflow into the pool and that the jets only come on when the system is in the Spa mode. That is one way it is done. If you are replumbing everything, then you can just make it how you want.

Some spas have what is called a makeup line. This line takes some of the water that would normally go the pool, when in the pool mode, and sends it to the spa. This water sometimes is plumbed to the spa jets, or sometimes to a separate spa return line. It is best if this line has a valve so you can adjust the amount of spillover, but sometimes it is just plumbed direct without a valve. Another way is to not have a makeup line at all, and just offset the Return valve so that some water always goes to the spa, when in the Pool mode.

Check out this link.. https://i8.amplience.net/i/lesl/jandy-schematic1

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Here is the current state of the system. We will prob put it back together mostly the same as in original post photo unless there are ideas for improvements.

The return side looked like the original post photo before we cut it all out to this. We just re-did the suction on the filter pump. The filter is disconnected and turned while we ponder running pipes above the other pumps rather than underground.

For the "spa booster" -- we are not sure how this fits in and if it is sharing suction/return lines. I guess a booster pump is supposed to be assisting in another plumbing circuit rather than it's own? If so, then maybe it is tee'd from the spa suction and back into the spa return.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Anyone use these Versa Plumb kits? I got a deal on the VPK-CVSLR (solar) model so picked it up as it has three valves in it.

But oddly the specs do not say what size they are (I am hoping/assuming normal 2/2.5 valves).

I'm also wondering how assembled/disassembled the fittings are and ability to customize. Again, the instructions do not say. For example, is the "solar loop" valve/tee/sweep assembly going to be all glued/molded together, or can it be modified? Perhaps all the fittings are also 2/2.5 inches so I could make some cuts and put it back together with a 2.5" slip coupling. Anyone know?

Thanks in advance.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Hi folks - I am trying to learn if it is a good idea to do a partial bypass of SWG to prolong life, similar to the Pool Pilot system (we are using Hayward right now). Anyone have any tips on how to go about learning if this is a good idea? Seems like others probably have thought of and perhaps tried this.

I can think of a few basic ways to do this...

• Manual proportioning between the SWG path and a bypass with a valve
• Create resistance on one path or the other (check valve, bends, pipe restriction)
• Remove resistance on one path or the other (put favored path in direct line, tee out/in a secondary path)

Pool Pilot keeps the SWG on the secondary loop and that seems like a good idea. Marketing info says "The spring check valve in the manifold allows excess flow, over 20 gpm, to by-pass the cell. The water in turn flows at a controlled rate through the cell where it is super chlorinated. The in-line strainer on the inlet side of the manifold protects the tri-sensor and production cell from debris that might bypass the filter."

 

[ajw22]

There is no reason or benefit to doing that with an Aquarite or most other SWGs.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Thanks Allen. Care to elaborate? I thought the same reasons might apply -- such as less debris in the cell, less wear on the cell from less flow. I'm barely learning how these things work so I'm no expert and would love to learn.

 

[CRAD_oz]

CA
The life of a cell is reduced by the time it is on and producing FC not from the flow past the cell.
Bad chemistry can also be a reason for a reduced life due to calcium build-up and using acid to clean it.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks Allen. Care to elaborate? I thought the same reasons might apply -- such as less debris in the cell, less wear on the cell from less flow. I'm barely learning how these things work so I'm no expert and would love to learn.

A SWG cell does not wear from flow. It has titanium plates with a coating of rare earths. The rare earths are consumed only when the cell is generating.

That Autopilot stuff is marketing gibberish with little engineering basis.

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[CA_Tallguy]

I guess that's what I get for looking at youtube videos instead of coming here -- I cleaned ours a few months ago with acid, I'm sure that I blindly followed the people demonstrating the method on youtube. It had failed so it was a last ditch effort anyway.

What about two other supposed benefits to the Pool Pilot system....

(1) less debris getting caught -- I could see a number of ways this might work. For one, less water throughput on the SWG loop should = less debris getting combed out by the SWG, all other things being equal. And by extension, whatever % of water goes direct on the main pipe can't catch debris as there is no SWG on that path. (But maybe there is a check valve that could catch some). I also like the idea of some screen entry to the SWG loop that can be kept clear by water flow on the main pipe.

(2) Don't these plates create a flow restriction? Or do most SWG have increased diameter to offset that? Having SWG on a side loop, maybe even closing off the loop with a valve, could eliminate that if it is indeed any issue (which I am starting to doubt).

 

[ajw22]

1 - The SWG is after a skimmer basket, pump basket, and filter and maybe a heater r. There should be no debris where the SWG is.

2 - no it does not create a restriction.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Guy,

I have three SWCG pools and I have NEVER seen any debris caught in the SWCG fins. How could it possibly get there? It would have to get through the skimmer basket, then through the pump basket and then through my filter. If you have debris in your SWCG, you've got other serious issues.

SWCG's do not cause any serious restriction to water flow. Maybe you might see a minuscule amount with the pump running at 3450 RPM, but what idiot would run a VS pump at full tilt?? The whole point of have a VS pump is to run it at a low RPM. My filter pressure at 1200 RPM (where I run my SWCG) is about 1 lb.

When you go to magic shows, do you really believe that the girl gets cut in half.

If you want a SWCG by-pass, go ahead and install one, but you will not see any positive results from doing so. In fact, in my mind you will have to run your pump faster just to make your SWCG work.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[1poolman1]

Those are 2" X 2.5" valves. How they are plumbed is going to require an experienced pool plumber or someone who can draw you a detailed diagram. As every pool is, essentially, a custom item, more info is needed.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Thanks @1poolman1 -- I'm familiar with plumbing of the valves, but I'm mostly wondering if in this kit that one is already glued together with the other fittings as shown. That would make this kit less useful for designs that don't exactly match their expected layout. I really hope they are not glued otherwise it could be tricky to actually make use of that third 3-way valve.

I think they may be glued as they are probably designed for rapid standard install on site by crews. Perhaps part of the value proposition of this product -- pay Jandy for assembling the fittings instead of the site crew. Well, I'll know for certain on wednesday when the box arrives.