Does an in wall Spa Check valve need a Jandy 2 way valve on the same line.

Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
I received only 2 posts to my first queries so maybe a more pointed question is in order? Pointed question is below if you want to skip the explanation!
So I'm getting to rebuild my pool pad and in all my research I couldn't find an answer to the above question. I have a pool that was built in the early 80's and I believe had a major remodel around 2005(Pebbletech, Ecomatic ESC 36 SWG, Hayward 30" sand, Heliocol Panels).

Right now, to control the force/flow of the Spa returns(4 of them) I have a Pentair 3 way valve that is after the Solar panel return and I can either send all flow to the Pool returns, all flow to the Spa returns, or a combination. Or if the Solar panels are closed then the water entering the 3 way is coming right out of the filter.
My normal running set up is 50/50 with the Spa drain open slightly so most Spa water is going over the spillway into the pool. As you can imagine, in this set up the water going to the Spa returns isn't getting fresh chlorine as it isn't going through the Ecomatic cell and this normally isn't an issue as the spa is getting enough water that it doesn't stagnate. Using the Spa is another story....yet we may only run it for 3 hrs at the most and usually far less...so I just switch back over to my normal running conditions and everything goes back to normal in an hour or so.

I think that before the previous owner put in the Solar panels and used the Pentair three way for flow control instead of an old 2 inch gate valve that must have directly fed the Spa returns from water coming out of the heater....right next to that, on a 1.5 inch line is a Jandy valve that must have replaced an old Gate valve that was leaking based on the way the Jandy is plumbed in. The original owner told me during a quick rundown when we bought the house that I never needed to touch the Gate valve for the 4 Spa returns or the Jandy valve and to only control the Spa return flow with the Pentair 3 way. He had the Gate valve for the 2 inch spa return open and the Jandy valve on the 1.5 inch check valve line closed.

So my questions are....since I'm repiping pretty much everything do I need to replace the Gate valve on the spa returns which would in effect give it two points of flow control? and does the Spa Check Valve need flow control from the Jandy 2 way valve? When I open the Jandy valve on the 1.5 in line that runs to the spa wall fitting, water comes out forcefully but why would a Check valve have that kind of flow?

Is the fitting in the Spa wall even a Check Valve.......?? What else would it be? Somebody at the local pool store supposed that's what it was when I explained where it was. Any Help would be appreciated.
 

ajw22

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Chris, your post is way too complicated for me to follow. You have two other threads with pics of your equipment. Below is one of your pics. Can you highlight what area you are asking about?

Where is the gate valve you are asking about?



Pump wishbone pic2.jpg
 

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Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
Sorry about the over explanation. Probably why I'm not getting many responses.
First off, I'm Derek and I was responding to a question about the Ball Valves so the second comment/question isn't mine.


That PIC is mine. That's my spaghetti pad.

So the gate valve I'm speaking of is the far left Red one on the 2" line..... it's open now but if closed the water to the spa will stop. The 3 way valve on the far right near the wall is what I use to control flow to the Spa or pool or both.

the Jandy valve on the 1.5" line is just to the right. It is closed right now but when it's open water flows out of a 5th fitting in the Spa. That fitting is lower then the 4 spa returns so it's not meant to be a return. Was told it could be a check valve but what is the purpose of the two way valve.

Thanks for looking.
 

ajw22

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Hi Derek, look at the pic above. I annotated it labeling every valve and CV I saw as well as some of the pipes. Lets see if that makes it easier having this discussion.

So the gate valve I'm speaking of is the far left Red one on the 2" line..... it's open now but if closed the water to the spa will stop.

That valve A?

The 3 way valve on the far right near the wall is what I use to control flow to the Spa or pool or both.

That valve E or F?

Where does pipe E! connect to? A1?

the Jandy valve on the 1.5" line is just to the right. It is closed right now but when it's open water flows out of a 5th fitting in the Spa. That fitting is lower then the 4 spa returns so it's not meant to be a return. Was told it could be a check valve but what is the purpose of the two way valve.

Which Jandy valve are you talking about?
 

Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
Yes! Valve A is a Turn off for the Spa returns. you can't see it but A1 pipe has a 45 degree fitting that takes it left toward the spa. It doesn't go as you indicated to E1.
E1 turns toward the bottom of the pic and goes about 10 feet underground then up onto the patio roof for solar. the solar return is the check valve #3

Valve F is the current way to control flow to either the pool returns though F3 to S1 or to the Spa returns going to Gate Valve A through the F1 line(that goes to the heater first then gate valve A and Jandy valve 1.

the Jandy valve I'm speaking of is #1. It controls water to a fitting in the Spa, not one of the 4 jets, a 5th opening. Not sure what it is or why it's there. I'll get a pic posted in a couple hrs.
 

ajw22

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Yes! Valve A is a Turn off for the Spa returns. you can't see it but A1 pipe has a 45 degree fitting that takes it left toward the spa. It doesn't go as you indicated to E1.
E1 turns toward the bottom of the pic and goes about 10 feet underground then up onto the patio roof for solar. the solar return is the check valve #3

Valve F is the current way to control flow to either the pool returns though F3 to S1 or to the Spa returns going to Gate Valve A through the F1 line(that goes to the heater first then gate valve A and Jandy valve 1.

the Jandy valve I'm speaking of is #1. It controls water to a fitting in the Spa, not one of the 4 jets, a 5th opening. Not sure what it is or why it's there. I'll get a pic posted in a couple hrs.

I updated your plumbing pic further. It is the only way I can follow the bowl of spaghetti you have. I think I now understand the flow around the SOLAR VALVE and the POOL/SPA VALVE.

From F3 the pipe goes into the heater. Where it comes out from the heater I am lost how things connect to A or 1.

And the heated spa water flow goes from valve A down to A1 and out to the 4 spa jets?

And the spa water flow also goes from valve 1 down that pipe to the mystery 5th opening?

E3 is your filtered water either going up through solar or directly to the POOL/SPA valve depending on the SOLAR VALVE?

We on the same page so far?
 

Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
From F3 the pipe goes into the heater. Where it comes out from the heater I am lost how things connect to A or 1.

Actually from F3 the pipe goes to the SWG and then directly to the pool returns via the 1.5" pipe right underneath and in front of the two gate valves labeled B(pool skimmer suction) and C (Spa drain suction)

The blower is hiding some heater piping but the 1.5" pipe just to the left of the pump lid and low to the ground is the heater exit pipe and runs behind the Blower piping and it's Hartford Loop and then comes up to meet up with A and 1.


And the heated spa water flow goes from valve A down to A1 and out to the 4 spa jets?
Yes!

And the spa water flow also goes from valve 1 down that pipe to the mystery 5th opening?
Yes! Pic of water flowing when valve opened below.


E3 is your filtered water either going up through solar or directly to the POOL/SPA valve depending on the SOLAR VALVE?
Yes!
Check Valve?  in spa wall .jpg
 

ajw22

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I got confused. I meant from F3 F1 the pipe goes into the heater. Where it comes out from the heater I am lost how things connect to A or 1.

I updated the pic a bit more.

Do you get water through valve 1 only when in SPA mode or in POOL mode?

That fifth jet looks like what is called a "spa makeup line". Usually it would get water when in POOL mode and let you have water flowing through the spa and spillover while the pool is running. But that is not the way it looks like it is setup.

Or you may have atone time had a separate pump for the four jets. Then heated filtered water would come through that fifth jet while a separate pump gave high pressure spa action to the four jets.

I think your pool and spa has gone through a few evolutions in its ownership.
 

Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
Do you get water through valve 1 only when in SPA mode or in POOL mode?
Well, through pipe F1 which is the only route for water to the spa.

I think your pool and spa has gone through a few evolutions in its ownership.
Agreed!!

That fifth jet looks like what is called a "spa makeup line". Usually it would get water when in POOL mode and let you have water flowing through the spa and spillover while the pool is running. But that is not the way it looks like it is setup.
Hmmm. Right now, the only pool/spa selection i have is through the 3 way valve labeled F
I'm guessing I need to keep a valve on the Mystery line/Spa makeup line since I can't remove it and can't cap it?


So the question becomes, with my pad rebuild in the very, very near future; what can I do to make things simpler...if thats even possible or necessary. Unfortunately, it's hard to visualize anything different with that jumble when I stand there looking at it.
The picture also shows the 2" backwash line, the booster pump in shadows on the right with the 1/2 " PVC, the Aerator 3/4" red gate valve. Without any direction I was probably just going to copy whats existing where I have to.


My goal is to remove the equipment and pour a new 4" pad 86" x 33" and install Pentair Quad 100, Hayward Echostar, and a 250k propane heater. the heater might be installed later due to cash flow issues but I'd like to plan the layout now if possible.

Thank you so much for taking the time to understand!! Just having someone else see what I'm seeing and getting most of it is progress.
 

ajw22

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The EcoStar pump has been a lemon and failure prone. Get the TriStar pump instead.

Show me the bottom of the spa with the suction ports in the floor.

When you replumb things you can move the fifth jet to be connected to the pool water flow side so you can have the spa spillover running with the pool if you want.

Do you intend to installl automation to make it easier to switch between pool and spa and control the heater?
 

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Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
The EcoStar pump has been a lemon and failure prone. Get the TriStar pump instead.
Alas, I wish I could. I purchased a used one that was really cheap; it runs, but after my research I have learned what so many already know. Oh well... if I only get a year or two out of it I'll be OK and then get a more reliable VSP.

Show me the bottom of the spa with the suction ports in the floor.
So the Spa has two Drains on the bottom floor about 18" apart. I always thought it was for suction entrapment which I also thought was a bit forward thinking for 1983 but also not helpful since they were only 18" apart.

When you replumb things you can move the fifth jet to be connected to the pool water flow side so you can have the spa spillover running with the pool if you want.
And leave the spa return/jets off? right now with my 50/50 valve F I already get flow to the spa from the returns and spill over to the pool since the spa drain is only slightly opened.

Do you intend to installl automation to make it easier to switch between pool and spa and control the heater?
no automation for those things....... but I do have the actuator on the solar valve E. Which is broken at this time. Not sure what I'm doing with it but would like to troubleshoot to see if it can get to a working state again.
 

Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
The Solar Controller is a Helio-Matic. HM4000C made in 2003. It has a water temp sensor and rooftop sun heat sensor. It stopped working a few years ago and now I manually turn the solar valve to send water to the panels when needed. The Helio-Matic was fine when it was working.
Solar controller.jpg

As far as the Ecostar goes, I paid 200 for it. 2018 model. After I read all the horrible reviews about it I realized I had probably made a mistake but the money's gone at this point. If it lasts a year or two I'll feel I got my moneys worth. Then move on to a new VSP.
 

ajw22

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A Pentair SolarTouch is inexpensive and good to get your solar valve working. Check eBay.

 

Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
That Pentair solar controller looks great and would def suit my nds. If I can't get the Helio-Matic working I'll be looking to get that. Thanks for the tip.

I researched Spa makeup line info and it seems that it's as you indicated....it was a way to circulate filtered, sanitized, and heated water into the spa to provide spillover when a separate spa jet pump was running. Could that possibly explain the dual drains in the Spa.....? one for the filter and one for a long gone pump for the return jets?

Any ideas on how to simplify my piping?? I'm not opposed to repositioning equipment and/or digging, however, I have limited room in the equipment area and based on the positioning of the pipes underground I might be restricted to what I can do with out major, major effort and since I'm DIYing this I can't have the pool down for more then a week or so I would think, for filtering purposes.
 

ajw22

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Does each drain in the spa have an independent line running into the equipment room?

You can have the pool down for as long as you need. Just stock up on liquid chlorine and pour 5ppm of LC into the pool daily and mix it with your pool brush. Your water will be fine for as long as necessary as long as you keep it chlorinated.

I think you can definitely simplify things. Can you draw a diagram of the space and show the location and function of each pipe that runs to the pool and spa?
 

Dawagonbus

Member
Feb 13, 2021
23
Phoenix, AZ
Allen, Sorry for the delay but here is my current equipment area diagram. I think it's 95% accurate as far as the dims go. Let me know what you think. I can also send as a pdf, if needed.
I couldn't get the 'return from solar' check valve and 2" line coming out of the ground onto the diagram but you can see them in the picture you were editing above.
pool equip diagram.jpeg