Do I even need a valve?

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Richie-Czech

Member
May 22, 2024
8
SW OH
Pool Size
22000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
AG, 22k gal.

Just bought Doheny's 24" filter and have a Waterway PD140 coming.

Just a simple single line from skimmer and one return. No chlorine feeders, heaters nor any water features.

Looking to hard plumb with 2" PVC. Cureenr setup (pic) is 1.5hp cartridge filter with crappy ball valves. Obviously all those and the flexible hose will go.

The question I have is should I even bother with valves?
If I need to isolate the system, I use the rubber stoppers.
The only valve I can think would be useful would be between skimmer and pump to easily clean out pump basket. But the filter itself has a "closed" on the multiport, so that's basically a ball valve.

Looking at Kaplan 2" valve. They're $40/ea so wanting to make sure I'll actually need 2?
 

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Richie-Czech said:
The question I have is should I even bother with valves?
If I need to isolate the system, I use the rubber stoppers.
The only valve I can think would be useful would be between skimmer and pump to easily clean out pump basket. But the filter itself has a "closed" on the multiport, so that's basically a ball valve.

Looking at Kaplan 2" valve. They're $40/ea so wanting to make sure I'll actually need 2?
Click to expand...
Ball valves should never be put in pool plumbing.
Kaplans bronze metal, they are ok and can be replaced, but CMP diverters are the same price.
Stopper are bronze medal. They work, but are a pain vs. just move a diverter.
DIVERTERS are gold medal. They can be rebuilt. Jandy, Hayward, Pentair and CMP make gold medal diverters.
The filter, being "closed," when you open the pump lid will do nothing.
Get a good CMP valve for the suction side (between pool and pump), and another for the return (between filter and pool).
Put Unions on the the input to the pump and return from the filter.
 
PoolStored said:
Ball valves should never be put in pool plumbing.
Kaplans bronze metal, they are ok and can be replaced, but CMP diverters are the same price.
Stopper are bronze medal. They work, but are a pain vs. just move a diverter.
DIVERTERS are gold medal. They can be rebuilt. Jandy, Hayward, Pentair and CMP make gold medal diverters.
The filter, being "closed," when you open the pump lid will do nothing.
Get a good CMP valve for the suction side (between pool and pump), and another for the return (between filter and pool).
Put Unions on the the input to the pump and return from the filter.
Click to expand...
By saying "medal" you're basically ranking them right?
The Kaplans are very well rated hence why I was looking at them.

And what I meant by the multiport, if it's in closed position then water from return shouldn't rush back into pump basket right?
 
Richie-Czech said:
By saying "medal" you're basically ranking them right?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Richie-Czech said:
And what I meant by the multiport, if it's in closed position then water from return shouldn't rush back into pump basket right?
Click to expand...
Post a picture of what you call a multiport. An MPV, or multiport valve is usually on a sand filter, which is AFTER the pump. So even if the multiport is closed, when you open the pump lid on an AGP, water will drain through the pump. I think we are just crossing paths on terminology Looks like you have a cartridge filter.

Maybe fill out your signature?

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PoolStored said:
Yes.

Post a picture of what you call a multiport. An MPV, or multiport valve is usually on a sand filter, which is AFTER the pump. So even if the multiport is closed, when you open the pump lid on an AGP, water will drain through the pump. I think we are just crossing paths on terminology Looks like you have a cartridge filter.

Maybe fill out your signature?

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...

Yes, my current setup is cartridge. That's all old stuff and is getting replaced this weekend.

I do mean multiport on the sand filter yes.
I'm talking about closing the multiport on the filter to stop the water from the return pushing back into pump basket.

Basically if I have a valve before and right after pump and close them both to clean the basket, it should limit additional pool water from coming in the same as a single valve + mpv in "closed" would accomplish, unless I'm misunderstanding what the mpv is capable of doing
 
Richie-Czech said:
I'm talking about closing the multiport on the filter to stop the water from the return pushing back into pump basket.

Basically if I have a valve before and right after pump and close them both to clean the basket, it should limit additional pool water from coming in the same as a single valve + mpv in "closed" would accomplish, unless I'm misunderstanding what the mpv is capable of doing
Click to expand...
The filter is before the filter. Closing the MPV on the filter will not stop water from pouring out the pump basket if you open it.

If you have a valve (I recommend a diverter) before the filter you will be fine. A diverter before the return, not after the pump before the filter, would be better to totally isolate your filter and pump would be best.

If you have one after the pump, before the filter, if you have to clean the filter or replace sand, you cannot stop the flow through the filter.
 
PoolStored said:
The filter is before the filter. Closing the MPV on the filter will not stop water from pouring out the pump basket if you open it.

If you have a valve (I recommend a diverter) before the filter you will be fine. A diverter before the return, not after the pump before the filter, would be better to totally isolate your filter and pump would be best.

If you have one after the pump, before the filter, if you have to clean the filter or replace sand, you cannot stop the flow through the filter.
Click to expand...
Okay yea that makes sense.
I've cancelled the order for the ball and got 2 Pentair diverters on order.

You're recommending 3 though, basically skimmer > pipe > valve #1 > pump > pipe > valve #2 > filter > pipe > valve #3 > return.
Am I getting it correct?
 
Let's call @Mdragger88 and @zea3 and see what they think...

Putting a third valve #2 between pump and filter would isolate the pump, allowing you to clear the basket. However, if the MPV has a "closed" position, this would be the same. If the new filter has a closed position, then you would only need the closed position on the MPV and on the skimmer (one diverter). That would isolate the pump.

The biggest risk to all of this is starting the pump the diverters/MPVs closed, dead heading the pump.
 
Last edited:
PoolStored said:
Let's call @Mdragger88 and @zea3 and see what they think...

Putting a third valve #2 between pump and filter would isolate the pump, allowing you to clear the basket. However, if the MPV has a "closed" position, this would be the same. If the new filter has a closed position, then you would only need the closed position on the MPV and on the skimmer (one diverter). That would isolate the pump.

The biggest risk to all of this is starting the pump the diverters/MPVs closed, dead heading the pump.
Click to expand...
Okay, I think we are finally on the same page. Sorry, 12am posting might have contributed to potential confusion.

Of course to clean the pump basket, I need to stop flow from both sides, i.e. from skimmer to pump (valve #1) and from return to the pump basket on the other side of the pump. For this I was going to use to use the "closed" position of the MPV, effectively stopping flow from return side.
I'm trying to get away with only necessary valves. To clean the basket, I do need valve #1 so I don't have to climb on the deck to put the stopper in the skimmer. And the close it from the other side via MPV.

If I do need to do bigger maintenance to the filter, then I don't mind climbing up and plugging the return with a stopper.

I think to keep it simple, valve #1 very necessary from convenience standpoint. Valve #2 likely overkill. Valve #3 would be nice, but also can be substituted with stopped. And of course being very careful not starting pump with valves closed/stoppers in place.

Unless the others suggest throwing valves #2 and #3 in anyway, I won't.
 
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At least One between filter & returns
( i have 3 - 1 three way at the filter that i never turn,
and 1 at each return near the pool wall so i can control my cleaner with one & fountain with the other this may not apply for you if you only have 1 return jet)
Then One between skimmer & pump so you can clean out the pump basket.

In 8 years I have never even undone the union between the filter & pump so I don’t imagine you need a valve there. A union would suffice for maintenance/replacement purposes
With one one each “side” of the pool you can effectively isolate your pool from your plumbing if necessary.
 
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