Contracts signed on Long Island

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
Just signed contracts! Breaking ground on May 15. Electrician is coming to map out a plan to reroute some utility wires, then the designer will come and make up some plans. Attached is the contract, let me know what you think. Look forward to finally creating my signature!
 

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JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
16,116
Tucson, AZ
I grew up in Setauket, so I know how ridiculous electric rates are on Long Island. That said, you might consider a heat pump instead of a nat-gas heater or look at some online energy calculators to see which would be better (definitely depends on the cost of gas in $/therm versus your $/kWh electric rate). Gas heaters are great, but they are more "point of use" type heaters (like when you want to quickly heat a spa), you don't really run them 24/7. If you keep your pool covered with a bubble cover at night and run the heat pump on off-peak hours, you could easily maintain a comfortable water temperature and not use as much gas. Electric heat pumps take a long time to get the water temperature up but they can be very efficient at maintaining water temperature especially in your climate where there's typically a good amount of humidity in the summer time.

Do you have a SE facing roof line that could accommodate solar water heating panels or Heliocol tubes? Solar heating water is a great way to save on energy.

Since you don't have an exact design it's hard to know what your pool volume is and thus what size equipment your pool really needs. Based on the rough outline of 15x30 with a 4.5 ft average depth, your pool volume is in the 16000 gallon range. Your salt water chlorinator may not be spec'd properly without knowing the true water volume and TFP recommends always getting an SWG that is rated at 2X the volume of the pool. Most pool builders don't know the first thing when it comes to an SWG so they often just blindly follow the manufacturers specs which are not adequate for any realistic pool.

A variable speed pump is a good way to save money especially if you can pair it with an automation system that allows you to set and adjust schedules. Then run times and speeds can be programmed for when your electric rates are at their lowest assuming you have tiered rates and time-of-use pricing.

I don't much about vinyl liners but those that do have them always say the thicker the liner the better. If you can afford the premium in price, the lifetime will be a lot longer. Blue dyes in the print on liners are the most susceptible to UV and chlorine fading so pick your colors and patterns carefully. You'll get no end of opinions on that here.

Are your walls steel or polymer walls? Good thing they are doing an entire hard bottom (vermiculite) as sand bottoms can erode easily especially with LI's aquifer being so close to the surface. Again, it's insurance against the one-off chance it might happen but if you can install drainage and a dry-well with a submersible pump under the pool, you can avoid the headaches of a floating liner in the case of a severe storm. I was on LI during hurricane Gloria in '86 and my best friend had an in-ground pool. The deluge of water caused the liner to shift and they had wrinkles forever because of it. Keeping ground water away from your pool structure can only help you.
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
Wow thanks for the reply. I grew up in Setauket as well (small world). We have been back and forth on the heater vs heat pump. I really like the idea of the ease of use associated with the heater, but we're still deciding which way we will go.

The house is West facing, so I don't know that would work.

Yea we're estimating about 16K gallons and he's giving us the Autopilot RC-35 which is rated for 40K gallons. So that should be good.

Good to now about the liners. I'll have to do some more research when the time comes to choose one.

We're doing concrete walls. I have no idea what vermiculite is, but it sounds like a good thing LOL. Dry well with a pump is something to think about as well. Thanks for all the great advice. This is a big project and a little overwhelming.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
11,701
Northern NJ
Run your numbers through the Pentair Heat Pump calculator. It gives a pretty honest comparison of NG heater versus Heat Pump for a specific location.

We have other calculators for pool planning at Calculators - Further Reading and you may want to browse through Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
16,116
Tucson, AZ
You can use the Search tool at the top to search the forum for liners...just enter in search terms and press the "G" button (for Google) not the Search button...the Google search algorithm of the forum's threads works better.

Vermiculite is a porous type of cement used on the bottom of vinyl liner pools in areas where there might be high water. It allows the pool to have a solid foundation but also allows water to flow into and around the liner if the water table gets high. The other option is to just do sand on the bottom but that can be too soft and wash away over time leaving wrinkles. Concrete walls are a great option and avoids all the issues with rusting steel walls.

As for SWG's, bigger is ALWAYS better as it means they generate more chlorine in a shorter amount of time. The thing to under stand is that SWG's only generate chlorine when the pump is running (water flow) and they are turned on. So, if the SWG is smaller, it has to run longer to make the same amount of sanitizing chlorine that a larger cell can make. This means more pump run time which uses electricity. Again, having a variable speed pump is critical because you can run the pump at a lower speed (less energy) to generate chlorine.

Bigger filters are always better too because it means you have to clean them less frequently.

Lots to learn about pools and TFP is here to help. Fire away with questions and everyone will be happy to chime in. Now is a good time too because it's winter and most people are not on the forum except for us die-hard weirdos that like to type too much....

Good Luck to you!

PS - Ward Melville High School, Class of '92
 

YippeeSkippy

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 17, 2012
12,030
Evans, Georgia
Even though you have declined a handrail, I would suggest placing the cups in the decking to allow for one to be placed down the road. They need to be included in the electrical bonding so during the construction is ideal. While you think you don't need one..... one torqued knee or an elderly relative and you'll be wishing you had one to help. The cool pool water is ideal help for recovering knees and without a handrail you'll have a heck of a time getting in that pool. Ask me how I know! Oy!

Maddie :flower:
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
11,701
Northern NJ
You should confirm the manufacturer and model number for all equipment being installed to confirm it's suitability:

- pump - Jandy VS FloPro 1.65 HP VS
- filter - Jandy CV460 filter? I would get the larger CV580.
- heater - Jandy 260 TXI NG heater?
- SWCG - the Autopilot does not have a great reputation here. Why is he using an Autopilot SWG instead of a Jandy Aquapure PLC1400 since it looks like he is using all other Jandy equipment?
- lights
- automation, timers, and controls
- all valves should be Jandy diverter valves. No ball valves should be used.
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
Run your numbers through the Pentair Heat Pump calculator. It gives a pretty honest comparison of NG heater versus Heat Pump for a specific location.

We have other calculators for pool planning at Calculators - Further Reading and you may want to browse through Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

The calculators were helpful thanks. Looks like electric will be a little cheaper to run but I think I am leaning towards the NG heater just because I will be guaranteed to be able-to get the pool heated easily whenever I want.

Wish I had read the construction best practices prior to getting bids but it's still very helpful now. Lots of interesting information thank you.
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
You can use the Search tool at the top to search the forum for liners...just enter in search terms and press the "G" button (for Google) not the Search button...the Google search algorithm of the forum's threads works better.

Vermiculite is a porous type of cement used on the bottom of vinyl liner pools in areas where there might be high water. It allows the pool to have a solid foundation but also allows water to flow into and around the liner if the water table gets high. The other option is to just do sand on the bottom but that can be too soft and wash away over time leaving wrinkles. Concrete walls are a great option and avoids all the issues with rusting steel walls.

As for SWG's, bigger is ALWAYS better as it means they generate more chlorine in a shorter amount of time. The thing to under stand is that SWG's only generate chlorine when the pump is running (water flow) and they are turned on. So, if the SWG is smaller, it has to run longer to make the same amount of sanitizing chlorine that a larger cell can make. This means more pump run time which uses electricity. Again, having a variable speed pump is critical because you can run the pump at a lower speed (less energy) to generate chlorine.

Bigger filters are always better too because it means you have to clean them less frequently.

Lots to learn about pools and TFP is here to help. Fire away with questions and everyone will be happy to chime in. Now is a good time too because it's winter and most people are not on the forum except for us die-hard weirdos that like to type too much....

Good Luck to you!

PS - Ward Melville High School, Class of '92
I've been reading a lot about the vermiculite. Sounds like its a good thing I'm getting that. Definitely looking to see that all of my equipment will be sized correctly. Waiting for the final design and exact gallon size to make any final decisions on that.

Class of 2000!
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
Even though you have declined a handrail, I would suggest placing the cups in the decking to allow for one to be placed down the road. They need to be included in the electrical bonding so during the construction is ideal. While you think you don't need one..... one torqued knee or an elderly relative and you'll be wishing you had one to help. The cool pool water is ideal help for recovering knees and without a handrail you'll have a heck of a time getting in that pool. Ask me how I know! Oy!

Maddie :flower:
I like the look of no handrail. But I think you're right. Function may trump form in this case. Thanks for the advice!
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
You should confirm the manufacturer and model number for all equipment being installed to confirm it's suitability:

- pump - Jandy VS FloPro 1.65 HP VS
- filter - Jandy CV460 filter? I would get the larger CV580.
- heater - Jandy 260 TXI NG heater?
- SWCG - the Autopilot does not have a great reputation here. Why is he using an Autopilot SWG instead of a Jandy Aquapure PLC1400 since it looks like he is using all other Jandy equipment?
- lights
- automation, timers, and controls
- all valves should be Jandy diverter valves. No ball valves should be used.
Correct, he uses all Jandy equipment. I'll looking into upgrading the filter. When I asked about the autopilot vs a Jandy SWCG he said that autopilot is the best and that's why he uses that over the Jandy. I haven't done any research on that. Is Jandy the superior SWCG?
 

l1ltaral1l

Bronze Supporter
Jul 16, 2019
356
Walnutport, PA
So exciting!

Do you have kids or dogs? If so, I'd highly rec considering a safety cover (instead of a tarp). Other points to think about:

-cost of water to fill the pool
-cost to re-seed and landscape
-adding an electrical outlet somewhere near the patio area
-cost to haul away dirt if it cannot be reused in your yard
-fence?
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
11,701
Northern NJ
When I asked about the autopilot vs a Jandy SWCG he said that autopilot is the best and that's why he uses that over the Jandy. I haven't done any research on that. Is Jandy the superior SWCG?
I see you put iAqualink Automation in your signature. I did not see that listed on your contract? What model Aqualink? RS4? RS6? Z4?

If you are getting the Aqualink then definitely get the Jandy Aquapure SWG which can be controlled remotely by the Aqualink. You will have no remote controls over an Autopilot SWG.

We recommend if you are getting automation you get at least the pump and SWG from the same manufacturer to maximize how they all communicate and work together.

Let’s talk about the heater you have specified. 1 BTU will raise 1 lb of water 1 degree. Your 16,000 gallon pool will be 134,000 lbs. The 260K BTU heater runs at about 80% efficiency and will heat your pool at around 1.5 degrees an hour. Find out what an upgrade to a 400K heater will cost that will heat the pool at about 2.5 degrees an hour.

Check that your NG supply can provide the needed gas or if you need a meter upgrade.

Are you planning to use a robot pool cleaner and buy it yourself? No reason to get it through the pool builder and pay his markup.
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
So exciting!

Do you have kids or dogs? If so, I'd highly rec considering a safety cover (instead of a tarp). Other points to think about:

-cost of water to fill the pool
-cost to re-seed and landscape
-adding an electrical outlet somewhere near the patio area
-cost to haul away dirt if it cannot be reused in your yard
-fence?
3 kids ( 3 year old and 11 month twins) and a dog. Definitely doing the safety cover. He said it will be around $2,000 but cant give us an exact amount until the pool is designed. He'll take $200 off the price since we won't be using the tarp.

-Water is inexpensive in my area so that shouldn't be a huge hit. But it all adds up.
-Landscape will be decided on when we do the design. I'm allowing about another 20-30K for landscaping and patio. Doing an outdoor kitchen and a possible pergola.
-Will be talking to the electrician about an outlet near the patio as well as some lighting by the equipment.
-I overlooked the cost to haul away excess dirt, going to look into that thank you.
-Doing a safety fence as soon as the patio is finished. Don't want any accidents.

Thanks for all the tips. Every time I come on here I learn about 30 new things and remember 15 of them.
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
I see you put iAqualink Automation in your signature. I did not see that listed on your contract? What model Aqualink? RS4? RS6? Z4?

If you are getting the Aqualink then definitely get the Jandy Aquapure SWG which can be controlled remotely by the Aqualink. You will have no remote controls over an Autopilot SWG.

We recommend if you are getting automation you get at least the pump and SWG from the same manufacturer to maximize how they all communicate and work together.

Let’s talk about the heater you have specified. 1 BTU will raise 1 lb of water 1 degree. Your 16,000 gallon pool will be 134,000 lbs. The 260K BTU heater runs at about 80% efficiency and will heat your pool at around 1.5 degrees an hour. Find out what an upgrade to a 400K heater will cost that will heat the pool at about 2.5 degrees an hour.

Check that your NG supply can provide the needed gas or if you need a meter upgrade.

Are you planning to use a robot pool cleaner and buy it yourself? No reason to get it through the pool builder and pay his markup.
Great question! I have no idea which Aqualink model I am getting. I'll have to research the different models. I want to be able to control the heat, pump and lights at a minimum. The SWG would be nice also but I feel like once I get it running smoothly I won't really need to mess with it that much.

The 400K heater is about $600 more. The PB said it's overkill for this size pool. Do you think It's worth it to bump it up to the 400? I do need to have the meter upgraded. I've built that into my budget.

Yep going with a robot through my own purchase. Their markup is too much. Just starting to research those as well.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
11,701
Northern NJ
The advantage to the SWG tied to the automation is you will get immediate alerts if the SWG detects low salt or shuts down for some reason. Otherwise you may not realize it until you walk by your equipment or your pool begins turning green or your water testing finds low chlorine.

You have to decide if the $600 for the larger heater is worth the quicker heat when you get an unexpected great sunny day and want to get the pool temperature up 10 degrees to swim.
 
Last edited:

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
The advantage to the SWG tied to the automation is you will get immediate alerts if the SWG detects low salt or shuts down for some reason. Otherwise you may not realize it until you walk by your equipment or your pool begins turning green or your water testing finds low chlorine.

You have to decide if the $400 for the larger heater is worth the quicker heat when you get an unexpected great sunny day and want to get the pool temperature up 10 degrees to swim.
Ah that makes sense. Would be nice to have that information immediately so that I can make adjustments before the problem gets too bad.
I'll have to talk to upper management about getting more funds for the bigger heater. :)
 

l1ltaral1l

Bronze Supporter
Jul 16, 2019
356
Walnutport, PA
3 kids ( 3 year old and 11 month twins) and a dog. Definitely doing the safety cover. He said it will be around $2,000 but cant give us an exact amount until the pool is designed. He'll take $200 off the price since we won't be using the tarp.

-Water is inexpensive in my area so that shouldn't be a huge hit. But it all adds up.
-Landscape will be decided on when we do the design. I'm allowing about another 20-30K for landscaping and patio. Doing an outdoor kitchen and a possible pergola.
-Will be talking to the electrician about an outlet near the patio as well as some lighting by the equipment.
-I overlooked the cost to haul away excess dirt, going to look into that thank you.
-Doing a safety fence as soon as the patio is finished. Don't want any accidents.

Thanks for all the tips. Every time I come on here I learn about 30 new things and remember 15 of them.
Oh good! You're already leaps and bounds ahead then =) Our safety cover was $2600, and I did price check that with 2 other outside independent Loop-Loc installers and it was pretty even.

I'm not sure what your budget is, but one of the things we 'upgraded' to that I am still so so so happy about was adding a walk in step in the deep end. We only swam for one day after our pool was done and before it was closed, but my kids loved having the big steps to sit on in the deep end also. We did the 11' Roman step at each end (rectangle shape for the pool itself).

I'd also recommend getting colored skimmers, returns and drain covers, and the pour-a-lid cover (if white isn't in your color scheme). Our liner and steps are grey, and I was too late to the game in buying the colored accessories.
 

FlapjackMcCoy

Bronze Supporter
Aug 13, 2019
40
North Carolina
I don't have handrails on my build either and was concerned with my parents needing them and also having to bond them after the fact. I ran across a product that doesn't require bonding, company is called Saftron. I was thinking if rails are needed afterwards I might give these a try. If I am wrong and these do indeed need bonding, or maybe they just plain stink I am sure someone will say something here. Always good to get feedback :)
 

Mjwall82

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
28
Long island ny
Oh good! You're already leaps and bounds ahead then =) Our safety cover was $2600, and I did price check that with 2 other outside independent Loop-Loc installers and it was pretty even.

I'm not sure what your budget is, but one of the things we 'upgraded' to that I am still so so so happy about was adding a walk in step in the deep end. We only swam for one day after our pool was done and before it was closed, but my kids loved having the big steps to sit on in the deep end also. We did the 11' Roman step at each end (rectangle shape for the pool itself).

I'd also recommend getting colored skimmers, returns and drain covers, and the pour-a-lid cover (if white isn't in your color scheme). Our liner and steps are grey, and I was too late to the game in buying the colored accessories.
We're doing an 8' bench in the deep end along with a slide. Those are the two big upgrades. I look forward to the slide myself lol.

Big yes for the pour-a-lid! I saw that at a friend's house once and loved it. Didn't know what it was called until now. I will definitely be doing that and color coordination is a good idea too. Thanks for the great ideas.
 
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