Contract phase questions

[jodibug]

Hello! Happy to have landed here before we sign a contract. We are hoping to be new inground pool owners and I'm wondering if anyone would like to provide feedback/questions to ask based on the package details supplied to us by the salesman.

We're planning for an 18' x 36.3' straight back kidney pool, with an 8' deep end. It'll be vinyl liner, 27 mil, and we'll get gray broom finish concrete decking. I've done enough research to feel comfortable with the salt water chlorine generator system and know that we need a SWG rated for 2-3 times the number of gallons our pool will hold. We'll also be adding on a mesh safety cover. Looking at this package, anything else I should get really specific on?

They are using Hayward brand for all of the pump and filtering, and we can choose a dolphin or polaris brand automatic cleaner.

Aside from that, we considered adding an electric heat pump, but it was pretty expensive and huge! Anyone absolutely love their heated pool or wish they'd gotten one from the start? Also open to any other "I wish I'd known" or "I wish I'd have gotten advice."

Our goal is just a good quality pool that our family can enjoy (we have kids ages 6, 8, 12) and we don't really want/need any fancy features or add ons.

 

[TampaKathy]

Do you want a DE filter? I don't know enough about it to give advice but I think it requires the most maintenance and is messy...just pointing that out so you can look into it more. I did not get a heat pump right away and regretted it within 2 swims, lol. So then I had one put in but yes, the pump itself is expensive and my electric bill is thru the roof.

 

[jodibug]

Do you want a DE filter? I don't know enough about it to give advice but I think it requires the most maintenance and is messy...just pointing that out so you can look into it more. I did not get a heat pump right away and regretted it within 2 swims, lol. So then I had one put in but yes, the pump itself is expensive and my electric bill is thru the roof.

Thanks for the feedback!

DE filter seems perfectly fine with us. From what I've read, I'm honestly not sure I have a strong preference for any specific filter type. We have no past experience to go on, so whatever we end up with we'll need to learn to maintain it.

The heater would probably get us 4-6 weeks on the front end and 4-6 weeks on the tail end of our season. Trying to decide if it's worth it, given the kids will still be in school during the day and evenings will be busier as well. I think we're definitely leaning no right now, but not 100% sure.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum.

A 2 speed pump is no longer manufactured for the USA market. So you will be getting old inventory. Only Variable Speed pumps are now manufactured for the USA market.

 

[jodibug]

A 2 speed pump is no longer manufactured for the USA market. So you will be getting old inventory. Only Variable Speed pumps are now manufactured for the USA market.

Ah! Good to know. Thank you.

 

[wireform]

Some food for thought. Just a FYI you mention 6 weeks of use in the shoulder seasons before and after. You won't be able to contain the heat and you're basically heating the sky if not covered. Solar covers work but take a huge commitment to use. Free form pools are more cumbersome to cover and can only have an automatic cover in tracks going across the pool deck where as a rectangular pool can have an automatic cover tracks below the coping. Although automatic covers are expensive they help by keeping water cleaner when heavy wind and rain storms come through, spring and fall foliage never get into the water and little to no evaporation along with temperature retention.
I'd recommend you look into a large cartridge filter instead of DE and as Marty said go with a variable speed pump which cost next to nothing a day to run. As for the cleaner I would get nothing else but a robotic cleaner which operates independent of the filter.

 

[jodibug]

Some food for thought. Just a FYI you mention 6 weeks of use in the shoulder seasons before and after. You won't be able to contain the heat and you're basically heating the sky if not covered. Solar covers work but take a huge commitment to use. Free form pools are more cumbersome to cover and can only have an automatic cover in tracks going across the pool deck where as a rectangular pool can have an automatic cover tracks below the coping. Although automatic covers are expensive they help by keeping water cleaner when heavy wind and rain storms come through, spring and fall foliage never get into the water and little to no evaporation along with temperature retention.
I'd recommend you look into a large cartridge filter instead of DE and as Marty said go with a variable speed pump which cost next to nothing a day to run. As for the cleaner I would get nothing else but a robotic cleaner which operates independent of the filter.

Thanks for the extra details on the heating! That's really helpful.

Would you mind sharing why you'd sway us away from a DE filter? It is because we're beginners or just that you're not a fan of those types in general?

Also, the cleaner is a robotic one, so thanks for confirming that's a good option!

 

[ajw22]

I have a DE filter and like it. The negatives are you have to handle the DE and have some way to dispose of it after every backwash. Some areas do not allow DE to be dumped into the sewer system. Also a DE filter because it does such fine filtering may require the most cleaning and backwashing during a season. Once you get the process down backwashing a DE filter and recharging it with DE takes me 10-15 minutes.

A large cartridge filter may only need to be cleaned once or twice a season. But it takes some effort and time to breakdown a cartridge filter, clean the cartridge, and reassemble it.

Here are some links that may provide useful information….

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[wireform]

The DE filters are the best at catching the dirt but a very close contender is the cartridge and you'll never know the difference in water quality because there isn't any, then sand which is the slowest at clearing up water say after a storm.. For ease of use sand is the best as you backwash and just move on. Next would be DE which also is a backwash filter but when done needs the DE material replaced which again is not a deal breaker. The cartridge is the most work of all three to clean again not a big deal but just needs to be opened once or twice a season and hosed off then put back together and close. By getting the largest filter you can afford money wise and room wise that will get you longer between maintenance intervals. If you keep the pool TFP maintained there will be very little maintenance filter wise.

 

[jodibug]

The DE filters are the best at catching the dirt but a very close contender is the cartridge and you'll never know the difference in water quality because there isn't any, then sand which is the slowest at clearing up water say after a storm.. For ease of use sand is the best as you backwash and just move on. Next would be DE which also is a backwash filter but when done needs the DE material replaced which again is not a deal breaker. The cartridge is the most work of all three to clean again not a big deal but just needs to be opened once or twice a season and hosed off then put back together and close. By getting the largest filter you can afford money wise and room wise that will get you longer between maintenance intervals. If you keep the pool TFP maintained there will be very little maintenance filter wise.

Thanks very much! Appreciate this context.

I have a DE filter and like it. The negatives are you have to handle the DE and have some way to dispose of it after every backwash. Some areas do not allow DE to be dumped into the sewer system. Also a DE filter because it does such fine filtering may require the most cleaning and backwashing during a season. Once you get the process down backwashing a DE filter and recharging it with DE takes me 10-15 minutes.

A large cartridge filter may only need to be cleaned once or twice a season. But it takes some effort and time to breakdown a cartridge filter, clean the cartridge, and reassemble it.

Here are some links that may provide useful information….

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thank you. Those links are great, so appreciate you passing that along!

 

[TX2OBX]

Howdy neighbor. IM just reading up and absorbing all I can before my build begins, But I saw a familiar city.

But I can offer my 2 cents on a heater. I had one on my old pool in TX, and the weather there was normally mild enough to have days you could swim year round (say an 80 degree day was coming up, could fire up the heater in the AM and swim when we got off work, even if the next day was going to be 45 out lol). However my heater was Natural Gas not a heatpump. IMO I dont think I would go heat pump unless NG isn't available at the property. However its just as expensive if not more so to run (had a 700 dollar gas bill once, whoops lol). But way less cost of entry (and way smaller footprint) and since I wasn't trying to maintain an 84 degree pool year round, it worked for us better as it heated the water faster for the warm days like mentioned above. I think those types of days are rarer up here on the coast.

 

[jodibug]

Howdy neighbor. IM just reading up and absorbing all I can before my build begins, But I saw a familiar city.

But I can offer my 2 cents on a heater. I had one on my old pool in TX, and the weather there was normally mild enough to have days you could swim year round (say an 80 degree day was coming up, could fire up the heater in the AM and swim when we got off work, even if the next day was going to be 45 out lol). However my heater was Natural Gas not a heatpump. IMO I dont think I would go heat pump unless NG isn't available at the property. However its just as expensive if not more so to run (had a 700 dollar gas bill once, whoops lol). But way less cost of entry (and way smaller footprint) and since I wasn't trying to maintain an 84 degree pool year round, it worked for us better as it heated the water faster for the warm days like mentioned above. I think those types of days are rarer up here on the coast.

Hey there! We take a vacation to the Outer Banks every summer! Love it out there!

Thanks for sharing your experience! We are definitely not gonna get a heat pump. It's too big, too expensive to run, and won't really give us much extra time in the water.

I was able to get some clarity on the equipment from the PB. They offer the 1.85 hp variable speed Tri-star pump instead of the dual speed and the only thing left to decide is DE or cartridge filter (I've been obsessively reading and watching videos to try and decide).

I also had my other quotes come through for the comparison shopping, and our #1 choice based on reviews, BBB rating, time in the business is also our lowest quote, so I think we are almost ready to get a contract drawn up!

 

[wireform]

Job
If you're going vs pump you'll need higher hp like 2.7 inorder to be the most efficient at lower rpms.

 

[jodibug]

Job
If you're going vs pump you'll need higher hp like 2.7 inorder to be the most efficient at lower rpms.

Well darn. I thought I'd done my homework here! I know I haven't added my pool specs to my signature yet, and I'll do so soon, but our pool won't have any water features or a spa and will be about 20K gallons. Based on the info in the pump basics article, I thought 1.85 would be more than enough for our needs.

I get that the actual HP of my pump may be 1, but that's still more than the 3/4 HP recommended.

 

[wireform]

With a lower hp given the same rpm on both pumps you would be consuming more electricity. Getting bigger hp gives you the ability to run the pump at lower rpm using less power. There are members here that run pumps 24/7 for $20 a month.

 

[jodibug]

With a lower hp given the same rpm on both pumps you would be consuming more electricity. Getting bigger hp gives you the ability to run the pump at lower rpm using less power. There are members here that run pumps 24/7 for $20 a month.

Gotcha, thank you. I'll dig in a bit more.

Really appreciate all the help for this newbie. Since joining I've been trying to use all the amazing resources here, but really happy to have the advice of the members as well!

 

[Toxophilite]

Hey there! We take a vacation to the Outer Banks every summer! Love it out there!

Thanks for sharing your experience! We are definitely not gonna get a heat pump. It's too big, too expensive to run, and won't really give us much extra time in the water.

I was able to get some clarity on the equipment from the PB. They offer the 1.85 hp variable speed Tri-star pump instead of the dual speed and the only thing left to decide is DE or cartridge filter (I've been obsessively reading and watching videos to try and decide).

I also had my other quotes come through for the comparison shopping, and our #1 choice based on reviews, BBB rating, time in the business is also our lowest quote, so I think we are almost ready to get a contract drawn up!

The variable speed pump is an easy decision due to the large energy savings, plus, at much lower speeds, it can use less electricity than your 500W light on an hour for hour basis.

On the filter, I had a DE before. My new pool now has a cartridge. I have never broken down to clean the cartridge, but me and my PB opened and it looks about all the same steps. The DE backwashing, keeping DE on hand, and filter media washing was messy and not a fun task. Backwashing only seemed to remove part of the old DE, and after every backwash, my base pressure creeped a little. After a few backwashes, it always required breaking down. So, looks to be less work and mess with cartridge, so we'll see.

 

[Nectarologist]

I love having a heated pool. We get so much more use out of it. Get the heater for sure. It's not like leaving your doors an windows open in the winter. Water holds heat for a long time and if it's warm enough to want to swim, you not losing 10 degrees overnight. Seems like NG may not be an option for you? If it is, get NG. The cost of heating is so cheap if you have NG. I heat my 16x32 to 84 degrees without a solar cover and often bump to 86 if we're swimming when it's windy or the sun isn't out and it's not really hot. I don't heat during the week when kids are in school b/c they won't use the pool anyway. Once school is out, the heater stays on, set to 84. My past summer's gas bills are as follows: May-Jun/25th - $136; Jun-Jul - $114; Jul-Aug - 115; Aug-Sep - $164. This is with a lot of grilling using a built in grill (60k btu), 75 gallon hot water heater and a basic service charge of $25/month so only ~75% of these costs are for the pool I'd bet.
If your only choice it the heat pump still get it...you won't regret it. Also strongly consider liner over the steps, it gives nice finished look to the pool.

 

[jodibug]

Okay, thanks for all of your help with the package review and equipment selection. We'll be meeting with our chosen PB later this week or early next and I want to make sure I have all my questions/requirements lined up for the contract. Here's what I've got so far:

• Make sure all equipment is listed out
• We need to have part of our privacy fence removed and replaced for access, clarify who's responsible for that
• Ask about overage charges and any other potential hidden costs (could I be more specific here)?
• Set up so payment phases happen after a stage is complete
• Don't make final payment until all work is complete
• Terms for change orders
• No ball valves, only diverter valves on plumbing
  • Does brand matter here? And 2-way or 3-way? I see the Jandy Neverlube recommended a lot, but my builder is Totally Hayward so I wonder if they'd be willing to use Jandy valves?
• Unions before, between, and after all equipment
• Make sure dirt removal and final grading are listed

Did I leave anything out?

 

[ajw22]

Hayward diverters are as good a Jandy.

2way versus 3 way depend where. Two 2 ways on specific pipes will give you better control then one 3 way at a T. But there are some places where a 3 way is the right solution.