Considering a SWCG. Thoughts?

[sub150]

The cost of chlorine from a SWG vs LC is pretty vast. LC is 5x+ more expensive over the expected life a cell and I'm not betting on prices coming back down. A Circupool RJ-60 is $1,500 right now. Over a 15k hour life it will produce the equivalent of ~1,856 gallons of 12.5% bleach. That's a cost $0.807/gallon. I pay $7.29/gallon right now. So even if it lasts half the spec'd life its a great deal.

I'll be getting a SWG. We had 113 days with a high over 100 last year in Phoenix. After doing that math I'll probably be buying tonight

 

[PoolStored]

So even if it lasts half the spec'd life its a great deal.

This comment made me go look at my logs. 2021 I used LC, this year swg. Remember, I'm in Ohio, so basically May - Oct. 5 months. @Padle in Florida you have 12 months and more sun than me. So your usage maybe 100% of mine? Maybe 10% more?

2021 = 81 gallons (30 for SLAM), so call it 50 gallons. Let's use 55 for you. Brandon Lowe's has HTH for $6/gallon, so somewhere around $350-400 (taxes etc). You will likely see higher prices in the summer.
2022 = about 200ppm FC created by the SWCG. With my SWCG (circupool RJ60) it outputs .5FC per hour, so this year I ran it about 400 hours. It has a 10 15K hour lifespan. I keep CSI low and the cell came out SPOTTLESS at close.

Right now the RJ-45 is on sale for <$1500 (great deal, that price is down $200 from last year). At $400/year, you have a 3.75 year break even. I didn't even include the amount of time I spent messing with bleach and testing every day. If you watch your CSI you should get 5-7 years out of the cell, maybe more. I personally expect more managing the pool right. I could get a bad cell, but for the ease of using this thing, I don't care.

 

[Newdude]

After doing that math I'll probably be buying tonight

They're 10k hours, not 15k. But it's STILL a honking savings over LC.

 

[sub150]

Website says 15k for the RJ-60 FWIW. I have the RJ-60 and a 3HP CircuPool SmartFlo pump in the cart for $2,444 before tax.

My electricity is very cheap but going from single speed to VSP will be nice. Feel like for a couple hundred bucks I'm getting a lot of efficiency, even if it's overkill for my pool size.

 

[PoolStored]

Website says 15k

Funny. I wrote my post before @Newdude and used 10K also. I had the same recollection of 10K from when I bought the RJ-60+ last year. Went to the wayback machine and the 60 has been rated 15K since 2019 (first record). Mandela effect?

 

[Newdude]

Website says 15k for the RJ-60 FWIW

Apologies. Most are 10k.

*also. Circupool has been known to inflate their #s. They smack the competition on every level, according to them. I still believe they are great SWGs with many members having good experiences, even if it's not quite what they said it would be.

 

[Padle]

Awesome, now I see the math. Here it $5 from Walmart for 1 gallon of 10 percent LC. Even if the price drops a little (doubtfull) sounds like cost of SWG is way ahead.

 

[Padle]

Since I don't fully understand SWG, do you need to manually set every day how much chlorine it should make for you? Or does it test and make sure your levels are where you want it to be?

 

[PoolStored]

Awesome, now I see the math. Here it $5 from Walmart for 1 gallon of 10 percent LC. Even if the price drops a little (doubtfull) sounds like cost of SWG is way ahead.

Yeah money is one thing, not worrying about it daily is another thing. The money is certainly positive to SWCG, but it just works and is *magic*. I test every couple days now and have learned how to use it.

Since I don't fully understand SWG, do you need to manually set every day how much chlorine it should make for you? Or does it test and make sure your levels are where you want it to be?

It is seasonal. I run my pump low speed 24/7. For me April-May 15-20%. June-July 30%. August 20-25%. September-October 15-20%. You will learn your pool quickly, weekly and month to month. If the percent demand goes up in a couple weeks, check your CYA...likely has been degraded. It is all a dance. With SWCG it is more a Waltz, than a day to day Irish Jig.

You will learn your pool. I have a solar cover and variable swimmer demand. In June/July, cover off, sun, and swimmers, I just turn it to 50% when I remove the cover and turn back to 30% when cover goes back on. If I go for a quick dip couple hours, turn it to 40%. Early/Late in the season, leave it alone. At some point it becomes muscle memory (the muscle memory on what to do actually happens very quickly).

 

[mknauss]

Since I don't fully understand SWG, do you need to manually set every day how much chlorine it should make for you? Or does it test and make sure your levels are where you want it to be?

It does not test the FC level. It creates the FC each day that you set it to make.
Once you determine the pools needs, you will only change the % generation on the SWCG a few times per year. In your area, likely a couple times in the spring and a couple times in the fall.

 

[bradgray]

Since I don't fully understand SWG, do you need to manually set every day how much chlorine it should make for you? Or does it test and make sure your levels are where you want it to be?

It technically doesn't "make" chlorine in the sense that it creates it, but rather it converts salt into it, temporarily. And can do so over and over when you ask it to.

In salt water, sodium chloride (NaCl) is split into dissolved sodium and chlorine ions (Na+ and Cl-) by the cell through electrolysis. The chlorine will then revert back to "salt" after doing its job and the cycle can start over. This recycling is how you eventually recuperate your investment.

You will choose a % on your SWG's programming interface (example range 2% - 100%, with sequence points depending on brand) and it will convert salt into chlorine for that percentage of its "on" time.

An overly simple description would be: if your pump (and SWG) run for 10hrs and your cell is set to 80%, it will produce chlorine for roughly 8 hours of that time.

A more complex description is that most cells break that runtime down into short increments (running for X seconds of each X minutes) and there are a lot of variables that affect how much it can effectively produce at any given setting (water temp, salt level, build-up on cell plates, pump runtime vs the cell setting [i.e. 20% generation X 24hrs of runtime, vs 100% generation X 5 hrs runtime].)

It's definitely a little more nuanced than it's sometimes marketed, but as nearly all members have confirmed, you'll very quickly learn your pool's rythym and it'll be very manageable by simply adjusting the % up or down until you get the consistent FC reads you need.

 

[Newdude]

Our summer was 8 degrees above normal with very little rain and blazing blue skies. I set the SWG to 60% in June and it stayed there into late September. Most years it was 4 to 6 weeks at each increment.

Open
20%
40%
60%
40%
20%
Close.

Once you set it, you are looking at your regular testing to ensure you are staying in range. In the first half of the season, daily FC loss increases and if you miss an adjustment, you underproduce. In the back half of the season, if you miss an adjustment you over produce and the next time you test the FC is a 12. Whoopsie. No algae tho. If you're gonna goof, goof in the fall and not the spring. You are safe up to 40% of your CYA level (SLAM FC). You have very little leeway below target.

Think of a bell curve for daily/UV loss across the season. You just have to match it as it changes.

 

[Mdragger88]

@Padle since you asked about testing, although the swg doesn’t monitor fc levels for you they do have a way of determining a salinity number.
this number should not be relied upon as your actual salinity level as it is not very accurate & has other determining factors that help it derive this number.
You will need to test your salinity level with a Taylor k1766 salt test about as often as you test cya. This test is included in the tf100 salt, tfpro salt, & taylor k2006 salt kits or can be bought separately.
Before adding any salt you should test your salinity. All manually added forms of chlorine add salt to the water. As does muriatic acid & calcium chloride. You may be surprised by the amount you already have in the water.

 

[PoolStored]

Before adding any salt you should test your salinity.

^^^^This Mine was 1200 when I switched.

 

[Padle]

Yeah money is one thing, not worrying about it daily is another thing. The money is certainly positive to SWCG, but it just works and is *magic*. I test every couple days now and have learned how to use it.

It is seasonal. I run my pump low speed 24/7. For me April-May 15-20%. June-July 30%. August 20-25%. September-October 15-20%. You will learn your pool quickly, weekly and month to month. If the percent demand goes up in a couple weeks, check your CYA...likely has been degraded. It is all a dance. With SWCG it is more a Waltz, than a day to day Irish Jig.

You will learn your pool. I have a solar cover and variable swimmer demand. In June/July, cover off, sun, and swimmers, I just turn it to 50% when I remove the cover and turn back to 30% when cover goes back on. If I go for a quick dip couple hours, turn it to 40%. Early/Late in the season, leave it alone. At some point it becomes muscle memory (the muscle memory on what to do actually happens very quickly).

This brings to mind a question. How does a VS pump save money?

Why not keep the powerful pumps, and they should be able to be shut off sooner?

 

[PoolStored]

This brings to mind a question. How does a VS pump save money?

Why not keep the powerful pumps, and they should be able to be shut off sooner?

You can run them at lower speeds, uses less energy. I run 24/7 and use about 200w. SWCG doesn't require high speed, nor does skimming.

You need to think about WHY you run your pump. Skimming, filtering, vacuuming, heating, mixing chemicals and chlorinating (SWCG, Stenner, puck chlorinator).

(*water features, spas and other variables set aside*) You really, only vacuuming (suction side) is the only thing that *May* need higher pump speed. Skimming, filtering, heating, mixing chems and chlorinating all work at slow speed. I have a heater, filter, skimmers and SWCG. All work great at about 1400 rpm. I leave my SWCG "on" 24/7 and pump on 24/7. Nice even addition of chlorine, and my pool maintains temp. 200w is a couple light bulbs, <$20/mo.

 

[Padle]

So if I understand correctly, a SWG will output the same amount of chlorine per hour no matter how fast or slow the pump is running?

 

[PoolStored]

So if I understand correctly, a SWG will output the same amount of chlorine per hour no matter how fast or slow the pump is running?

As long as the flow switch is engaged.

 

[Padle]

Ok thanks! I currently run my pump 4 hours a day (it's not vs) would that be enough to raise my FC by 4 in the summer if I got say a rj-45 (in tried using the add chemical calculator but didn't understand it)

 

[PoolStored]

1400 rpm, 200 watts x 24 hours run = 4800watts ÷1000 = 4.8 kWh x 30 days = 144kWh x 10.c/kWh = $14.40 per month

3000 rpm, 1500watts x 8 hours run = 12,000watts ÷1000 = 12 kWh x 30 days = 360kWh x 10.c/kWh = $36per month