Confused by Pool Math App and Pool Warranty - Conflicting Ranges

[A658]

Hi,
I am a new pool owner and am getting confused. The pool is fibreglass with a SWG. The warranty card from my pool manufacturer recommends the following;
FC: 1.5-2.5ppm (with a warning not to exceed 2.5ppm)
pH: 7.2-7.4
TA: 80-120ppm
Stabilizer: 30-50ppm
CH: 120-300ppm
Salt: 4000-5500

My test results are as follows;
FC: 2.5
pH: 7.4
TA: 110
CYA: 30
CH: 150
Salt: 5400

It seems my results are ok according to the manufacturer however the Pool Math app is giving me warnings that TA, CYA and CH are outside the recommended range and pH is outside the ideal range.

What do I do?

 

[kimkats]

Hi and welcome to TFP! I can see why you are confused. There are many ideas for the levels for the water. Most of them suggests the levels they do as that is how they have always done it. A good example is the card that came with your pool. Another good example is the guides on the back of many of the pool supply bottles.

How TFP is different is we use documented science for our suggested levels. One good example is the FC/CYA ratio. Here is our chart for that one: FC/CYA Levels As you can see the more CYA you have the more FC you need. If you use stabilized chlorine such as tablets or bags of powder your are adding CYA along with the FC. The only way to remove CYA is to drain and replace the water.

Here is a link for some *light* reading about how our FC/CYA ratio was developed: CYA Chlorine Relationship - Further Reading

I also suggest you look at your CSI on pool math. Water temp plays a big part in this one. If you keep your CSI in line there is less chance of scaling or such on your pool surface. You can play with the numbers to see how each one affects the CSI.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome! Also be sure to bookmark our Pool Care Basics page which has tons of great info in one place. Ensure you update your signature (see ours as examples) so that we know more details about your pool and equipment. If you do some searches here about recommended levels, you'll see hundreds of discussions that clarify how/why TFP recommended levels are different from the antiquated/generic industry levels. Once you understand this, it will be very clear.

Also keep in mind that at-home water testing with a "proper" test kit (TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C) is absolutely essential. Do not fall for free store testing and advice. If you have any questions just let us know.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[HermanTX]

What do I do?

There is one additional thought to what @kimkats stated in that TFP is a methodology what is best explained in this article

What is TFPC?

We believe any pool owner can achieve and maintain safe, crystal clear pool water, by using the science-based, Trouble Free Pool Care (TFPC) methodology.

www.troublefreepool.com

It can be very frustrating as the internet can provide much conflicting information. We have had thousands of success stories from members that have come to the forum seeking advice to get rid of algae or in need of some other advice regarding pool chemistry. We are here to help.

 

[A658]

Welcome! Also be sure to bookmark our Pool Care Basics page which has tons of great info in one place. Ensure you update your signature (see ours as examples) so that we know more details about your pool and equipment. If you do some searches here about recommended levels, you'll see hundreds of discussions that clarify how/why TFP recommended levels are different from the antiquated/generic industry levels. Once you understand this, it will be very clear.

Also keep in mind that at-home water testing with a "proper" test kit (TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C) is absolutely essential. Do not fall for free store testing and advice. If you have any questions just let us know.

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for the feedback.
I am in Australia and cannot order the TF-100. I did however order a similar kit from Clear Choice labs and am enjoying the testing experience.

Total Pool Water Testing Kit, Salt Water – Clear Choice Labs

 

[A658]

I guess my concern is that if I don't follow the manufacturer advise it may impact the pool structure and also my warranty. The warranty certificate has bold, capitalised, red text to not exceed 2.5ppm FC (attached).

 

[kimkats]

There is that worry. It is a rock and hard place for sure. Sooooooooooooo maybe do this. Do a monthly test at a pool store when you know the fc is just at 2.5 and keep it for your records. THEN push it up for the rest of the month. Just an idea. I will tell you if you don't let it get above 2.5 with your CYA where it is at you are risking an algae bloom over time

 

[HermanTX]

I guess my concern is that if I don't follow the manufacturer advise it may impact the pool structure and also my warranty. The warranty certificate has bold, capitalised, red text to not exceed 2.5ppm FC (attached).

This is the issue most new pool owners struggle with. Although the CYA/FC data is available the pool industry is stuck on old recommendations. The other issue is that you will need a "professional test" which is accepted by the company which is from a pool store. If you stay at the 30ppm on CYA you can maintain the 2.5ppm FC if you can set up your SWCG to maintain that.

 

[joel98z]

+1 to all that has been suggested. I am a newbie pool owner and have followed the TFP method and recommend numbers in pool math and have never had any issues at all. Follow the advice here and you will be fine

 

[nobody291]

We resurfaced our pool a few years ago, and I initially tried to comply with requirements similar to what your manufacturer has. It was very difficult to get a "perfect" test result from the pool store (the only reasonable place for me to get a test from a "reputable company"). That 7.2-7.4 pH could be a tough range to hit every time, especially with a TA of 110. Getting a consistent test result, month-after-month, that shows FC in the 1.5-2.5 range will be difficult too. And, this all presumes that the place that does the testing provides accurate results (my local pool store provided very mixed results compared to my own testing). When you get a test result that shows a FC of 2.8, or a pH of 7.5, what then? My warranty doesn't address this at all. I eventually gave up on trying to comply with the warranty water testing requirements because of all of this.

The question is, what does the rest of your warranty state? What will they do if there's a problem and you have tests that show all of those parameters in those ranges? You have a fiberglass pool and I have a concrete-based pool, so our warranties will be different; but, in my case, the warranty is limited to materials to "repair the area of failure" (not the entire pool, so there would be an obvious mismatch in colors between the old and new areas), and does not include labor or the cost of water to refill the pool. Plus, it has additional vague language that would allow them to shift blame to me or to other factors. I concluded that my warranty provided very little value.

No matter what you decide to do, there are pitfalls. Like others have observed, if you keep your FC at/below 2.5 with a CYA of 30, it's very likely that algae will take hold at some point.

 

[ajw22]

I have yet to see anyone among our hundreds of thousands of members posting that they were asked for their water testing history when making a warranty claim.

Warranty claims are denied due to "bad water chemistry" without even looking at any testing history. It is the catchall blame the customer warranty denial excuse.

I would not waste my time trying to satisfy that requirement.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The value of pool related warranties are precisely quantifiable … they are worth the paper they are printed on and not a penny more ….

 

[A658]

I have yet to see anyone among our hundreds of thousands of members posting that they were asked for their water testing history when making a warranty claim.

Warranty claims are denied due to "bad water chemistry" without even looking at any testing history. It is the catchall blame the customer warranty denial excuse.

I would not waste my time trying to satisfy that requirement.

Given the way my pool installer has handled some other issues this wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[A658]

The value of pool related warranties are precisely quantifiable … they are worth the paper they are printed on and not a penny more ….

Sadly I think you may be correct.