Cartridge vs DE Filter

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Check my signature and you'll see I own an oversized cartridge filter for my pool. I, too, only clean once per year. However, I own two sets of filter cartridges and simply swap out the dirty ones for clean ones (takes about 30 minutes). I then soak the dirty filter cartridges in a large trash can in a very dilute Simple Green mixture overnight. The next day I rinse the cartridges (takes about an hour) and let them air dry before storing them for the next swap. Pretty painless and, thanks to the TFP methods, my pool looks crystal clear all year.
 
polyharmonic said:
Interesting that the consensus so far seems in favor of cartridge filter. However this is from people who currently own DE and (I guess?) don't have personal experience maintaining a cartridge filter.

One thing that was making me shy away from it was the 1-hour needed to remove the cartridges, hose down the cartridges and then re-install them. I suppose it doesn't have to take that long but it would suck to have to do that very often compared to the 10-minutes it takes to backwash a sand filter.

However, it seems that if you buy the biggest cartridge filter possible, you could reduce cartridge washing to a couple times a year??? If so, that would actually be much better than sand backwashing actually! (No way you can just backwash a sand filter 1-2 times a year).

But what is so bad about DE maintenance though? I sounds like if you buy a big enough DE filter, couldn't you just hire someone to thoroughly service it (clean grids, replace DE) twice a year and in effect do no maintenance yourself? And even if completely servicing it yourself, in what way is DE more of a pain to deal with than cartridge exactly? Pouring several pounds of DE down the skimmer every time you backwash doesn't seem like it would be that hard (or maybe it is because you have to drag a big bag of it from your storage to pool and back?). As for washing the grid, well that sounds like about the same effort as washing cartridges but you only need to do that maybe once a year.
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We have a DE filter and this year it has been great! DE is relatively cheap, I think I pay $12 for 4 lbs box with four plastic bags measured out for each filter change, no problem at all, 10 minutes to backwash and change. We have hardly had to change the filter this year. Last year when we first moved into this home, the pool had not been opened for about three years and we must have used 100 pounds of DE. Sometimes I had to backwash every hour as we removed all the fine organics and algae that had formed , took about 3 weeks. This year the water is like crystal, shimmering. Hated the DE filter last year--love it this year.


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40,400 inground gunnite, max depth 10-ft with 1.5 hp single speed Pentair, DE filter, well water, only one skimmer working, TAYLOR TK-2006 TEST KIT COMP CHLORINE FAS-DPD, Chester County, PA--OLD pool, but a beauty.
 
By using hairnets in my skimmers, a VS pump running at 1500 RPM most of the time and a robot to clean the pool my Pentair Quad 60 filter has now gone 18 months with only negligible pressure increase. I also use alternate DE media (Peralite). Probably will tear down the filter just for the heck of it and to get some of the internal parts cleaned out.
 
Just don't try using a DE filter with cellulose fiber in it for any long run cycles. I tried it and it cleaned the water better than DE, but you MUST change it very frequently. It is biodegradable and starts breaking down in the filter. When that happens you have this terrible gooey mess to clean out of the filter. Back to DE.
 
If you decide to go with DE, don't consider anything but the QUAD 4 by Pentair. Why, because the filter elements look like cartridges and they clean super fast, and re-assembly is a snap. The curved grid filters that most people have should have gone out with the 1990's. They frequently are a major hassle to get back together, and this comes from someone who has literally done hundreds of filter cleanouts over the past 21 years.

The way I see it is the easier that maintenance is to do, the more likely it will be done. The QUAD 4 cleaning process is simple and fast, and well within most people's DYI ability, so keep that $120 in your pocket.
 
chiefwej said:
Just don't try using a DE filter with cellulose fiber in it for any long run cycles. I tried it and it cleaned the water better than DE, but you MUST change it very frequently. It is biodegradable and starts breaking down in the filter. When that happens you have this terrible gooey mess to clean out of the filter. Back to DE.
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I first ran this Aqua Pearl (Pearlite) media based on recommendations from my PB after a major pool remodel including new filter.

https://www.amazon.com/Perlite-4212-Alternative-Swimming-12-Pound/dp/B00J7LDN7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502658238&sr=8-1&keywords=perlite+filter+media

Ran my filter for 1 year before cleaning (very little pressure increase) and had no gooey mess problem. Filter elements were very evenly coated and washed off easily. Next week I will clean after 18 Months. Will update if any problem with this media.
 
I have a 20k gal pool. Based on the getting the biggest filter possible, it looks like I am down to the following choices:

* Hayward SwimClear C5030 525 Sq Ft
* Pentair Clean and Clear Plus CCP520 520 Sq Ft
* Pentair Quad DE 100 - 100sqft Combination Cartridge & DE filter
Unless someone can explain why I might choose a traditional grid DE filter rather than Pentair Quad DE cartridge "grid", I think I would just do with Quad DE (if going with DE filter in the first place).

Are these sizes a bit overkill (maybe I can go with the filter one size smaller like 420 cartridge filter or Quad DE 80)?
Any opinions on any of these possible choices?
Any other choice to consider instead?
 

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If you look at the filter efficiency chart in this thread - Hydraulics 101 - Have you lost your head? , you'll see that the Clean & Clear has a very slighlt lower head loss than the QuadDE while the QuadDE and SwimClear are equivalent. SO if you were really splitting hairs over head loss, the Pentair cartridge filter would be the better option. BUT, DE filters have better fine particle filtration sizes and you can, if you pay extra, outfit the QuadDE with a multiport valve that can give you some flexibility such as "vacuum to waste", "recirculate mode", etc.

Up to you and your budget, but I'm a huge fan of my QuadDE.
 
Mayorb said:
If you decide to go with DE, don't consider anything but the QUAD 4 by Pentair. Why, because the filter elements look like cartridges and they clean super fast, and re-assembly is a snap. The curved grid filters that most people have should have gone out with the 1990's. They frequently are a major hassle to get back together, and this comes from someone who has literally done hundreds of filter cleanouts over the past 21 years.

The way I see it is the easier that maintenance is to do, the more likely it will be done. The QUAD 4 cleaning process is simple and fast, and well within most people's DYI ability, so keep that $120 in your pocket.
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I take it you have a Quad DE? Can you tell me your pool size, exact model and also if you have experience with other filters before.

Thanks so much!
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Pentair QuadDE-100 on a 16,000 gallon pool/spa. I only tear it down and clean it out twice per year .... BUT, last year, I got too busy to do my normal Fall cleaning and it went an entire year without cleaning it or backwashing it. Pressure increase barely reached 25% over clean pressure and the flow from the returns and my spa spillover was unchanged. Absolutely no issues with my chemistry and sanitation staying balanced. Water clarity remained perfect the entire time. Cleaning involves pulling out four cartridge style units that hold the DE and rinsing them off as well as cleaning out the body of the filter. Takes about 2-4 hours on a Saturday morning...not really a chore at all.

If you oversize any filter, it dramatically changes the amount of "maintenance" required. I would not hesitate to get another DE filter for my pool just as long as I can get the biggest one possible....
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Well since you chose the Pentair QuadDE-100 for a 16k pool, then I guess it would be fine for my 20k pool. But did you have experience with other filter types in the past?
Also wouldn't it be the case that if you somehow got pool swamp, QuadDE would be a pain to clear up until you got it under control? (although I suppose probably no more than traditional DE or cartridge)
 
polyharmonic said:
Well since you chose the Pentair QuadDE-100 for a 16k pool, then I guess it would be fine for my 20k pool. But did you have experience with other filter types in the past?
Also wouldn't it be the case that if you somehow got pool swamp, QuadDE would be a pain to clear up until you got it under control? (although I suppose probably no more than traditional DE or cartridge)
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A QuadDE-100 would work fine on your pool.

As for green pools and DE filters, well yes, theoretically a DE filter will make clearing a algae-laden pool slower due to clogging of the filter. However, that scenario is highly unlikely. Pools rarely ever turn green overnight. You will typically have days of cloudy water before any hint of algae shows up. Also, algae will sometimes grow as isolated mats that will have no effect on filtration until large quantities start to become planktonic. So using algae clearing as a criteria for filter selection is really unnecessary. And, as others have stated, if you follow the TFPC Method of pool care, you will never have a green pool to deal with.

My pool is going on 4+ years and I have never had algae or a green pool....not ever.
 
I have Hayward C4000 (400sqft) Super Star-Clear cartridge filter and therefore I cannot speak for DE or Sand filter users.

Between the hair net in the skimmer and Dolphin robotic cleaner, my filter pressure has not change for over a year. I recently opened it to inspect out of curiosity but found literally nothing to clean. The cartridges still looks good and white as new. Well of course, there might be some dust particles caught in between the pleats but zero visible debris. I sprayed wash the cartridges anyway! An hour later, I had so much regrets for disturbing it and for wasting my time. Our pool water is sparkling clean and dialed in all year round.

I don't care what others has to say about the cartridge filter but I for one will never, ever make the switch to other types of filtration. But to each his own!
 
For anyone who can answer, which of the two would be easier to clean, Pentair QuadDE or CC520 cartridges?

I looked at some videos and they almost look identical at a glance. Both have four cartridges. The main difference is that QuadDE requires adding DE. But it could be that cleaning the QuadDE cartridges is easier than CC520 cartridges as people say you need to soak them overnight in some kind of solution in big trash cans (does QuadDE require that too?)

Also it seems that perhaps QuadDE might require slightly more cleaning than CC520 per year everything else being equal?
 
The soaking overnight in trash cans in not necessary (though it appears to work well for the poster who mentioned it). I have the Hayward C5030 and cleaned it a few days ago. It really is just removing the top of the filter, removing the cartridges, hosing them down (with a tool to make it easier... like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Mi-Way-Aquacomb-Filter-Cartridge-Cleaner/dp/B00818KY0Y) and popping them back in. The whole process can take anywhere from 30 mins to an hour. I've been cleaning mine once a year even though my pressure doesn't seem to rise at all.
 
The cartridges on a QuadDE are A LOT easier to clean. First off, the spacing between the pleats is much larger since it only needs to be, at most, 25 sq ft per cartridge (25 * 4 = 100 sq ft). As well, the DE sloughs right off the cartridge material. I have never had to soak or acid clean my cartridges in over 4 years of use.


I put this QuadDE cleaning post together with pictures about a year or so ago.

Guts of QuadDE Filter
 
JoyfulNoise said:
The cartridges on a QuadDE are A LOT easier to clean. First off, the spacing between the pleats is much larger since it only needs to be, at most, 25 sq ft per cartridge (25 * 4 = 100 sq ft). As well, the DE sloughs right off the cartridge material. I have never had to soak or acid clean my cartridges in over 4 years of use.


I put this QuadDE cleaning post together with pictures about a year or so ago.

Guts of QuadDE Filter
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Thanks for your reply. The QuadDE looks very close to the Pentair C&C cartridge filter. If it were technically possible, the ideal filter would be such that if you wanted DE, you'd put in "QuadDE cartridges" and add DE. But if you tired of dealing with DE, you'd just wash out the filter of all DE and then swap out QuadDE cartridges for standard non-DE cartridges. Maybe its too hard to accommodate both in one filter due to big pressure/flow differences and such?

Anyway, reading all the posts (including old posts), it seems like the biggest advantage to QuadDE over cartridge is it filters better due to DE filtering better. However then you have to deal with washing off and putting in DE each time. Whereas with cartridges you just wash off and don't have to deal with DE.

It sounds like since QuadDE cartridges don't have many pleats, it washes off easier than standard cartridges. But a lot of people suggest that standard cartridges shouldn't really be that much harder to clean. It also seems like you can clean them both around 2x a year. I guess the only way to truly compare is if someone did a side-by-side comparison to see if washing off CC520 cartridges is "significantly" harder than washing off QuadDE cartridges and dealing with DE.

One thing I note which is interesting is your post from 04-13-2017, 08:04 AM in your "Guts of QuadDE Filter" thread:
JoyfulNoise said:
If I were asked to pick a new filter tomorrow, I'd probably go with a Clean & Clean cartridge filter because the extra step of recharging the DE has gotten "old".
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So although you yourself love your QuadDE filter, it sounds like if you had a choice you don't really see the advantage of dealing with DE versus just using a standard non-DE cartridge filter? (Or put it another way. Suppose you could actually put in standard cartridges in your QuadDE instead, would you rather use that?)
 

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