Cant keep TA up to proper level

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The new soft water line ties in directly to my autofill. I was luck to have relative easy access close to the old autofill shutoff valve.

Current CH is in my shared PoolMath logs - click my username or pic on the left side. I think it's 550 or 575 (toward the high end of where I'd like to to be).

Increase the TA and reduce the amount of acid.

Do you need to run the spillover most of the day or do you just want to run it most of the day?
Can you circulate the water in the pool without using the spillover? Reducing spillover usage will reduce aeration and hence slow the pH rise. If you can circulate the pool separate from the spillover, then just run the spillover for 30 minutes twice daily (unless you are out by the pool) to keep the catch basin chlorinated.

Brushing keeps the walls clean and free of dirt/debris. Brushing also breaks the surface of algae which allows the chlorine to kill the algae. If you maintain proper water chemistry, you won't get algae. But you still need to brush.

I remember a discussion a while back about ORP not being reliable at CYA levels above a certain point. But I don't know anything more about ORP. Maybe @mknauss can fill us in or point us in the direction of that post or posts.

Have you ever considered a SWCG? If you switch to a Salt Water Chlorine Generator you can ditch the auto liquid chlorinator and it's ORP probe. A side benefit is no more lugging liquid chlorine for the majority of the year (you may need some liquid chlorine in winter as the SWG stops generating below 60-ish degrees water temperature).
 
I am intrigued by your above ground pool/spa with negative edge.
Any chance you could post a few pics?
Also equipment pad pics?
 
proavia said:
I remember a discussion a while back about ORP not being reliable at CYA levels above a certain point. But I don't know anything more about ORP. Maybe @mknauss can fill us in or point us in the direction of that post or posts.
Click to expand...
ORP is typically found to not be a sustainable method. The probes fail and if your CYA is over about 20 ppm, they are not accurate. Some seem to make them work, but the majority do not. A very low CYA does not work well in an outdoor pool unless it is kept covered the majority of the time.
 
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proavia said:
The new soft water line ties in directly to my autofill. I was luck to have relative easy access close to the old autofill shutoff valve.

Current CH is in my shared PoolMath logs - click my username or pic on the left side. I think it's 550 or 575 (toward the high end of where I'd like to to be).

Increase the TA and reduce the amount of acid.

Do you need to run the spillover most of the day or do you just want to run it most of the day?
Can you circulate the water in the pool without using the spillover? Reducing spillover usage will reduce aeration and hence slow the pH rise. If you can circulate the pool separate from the spillover, then just run the spillover for 30 minutes twice daily (unless you are out by the pool) to keep the catch basin chlorinated.

Brushing keeps the walls clean and free of dirt/debris. Brushing also breaks the surface of algae which allows the chlorine to kill the algae. If you maintain proper water chemistry, you won't get algae. But you still need to brush.

I remember a discussion a while back about ORP not being reliable at CYA levels above a certain point. But I don't know anything more about ORP. Maybe @mknauss can fill us in or point us in the direction of that post or posts.

Have you ever considered a SWCG? If you switch to a Salt Water Chlorine Generator you can ditch the auto liquid chlorinator and it's ORP probe. A side benefit is no more lugging liquid chlorine for the majority of the year (you may need some liquid chlorine in winter as the SWG stops generating below 60-ish degrees water temperature).
Click to expand...
Thanks again. I'm going to increase PH and since how that affects TA, great idea. I need to keep the spillover edge running during a sunny day because the black granite edge gets very hot and when cold water runs over it, it will cause expansion/contraction and pop/crack the tiles.

Got it re: brushing, thanks.

Yes, CYA levels need to be lower than TFP recommends for at least some ozone/uv systems. We aren't using ours now but plan to upgrade it at a later date (I realize TFP is not a fan of ozone/uv). We are using our auto chlorinate through ORP vs timed. It seems to work well for us.

We specifically chose LC over SWCG because our research showed that salt water was more likely to have calcium buildup and with a black tile pool, that would be very noticeable. LC hasn't been a big deal for me but I would prefer the convenience of Salt (but not at the expense of extra calcium buildup).
 
mknauss said:
ORP is typically found to not be a sustainable method. The probes fail and if your CYA is over about 20 ppm, they are not accurate. Some seem to make them work, but the majority do not. A very low CYA does not work well in an outdoor pool unless it is kept covered the majority of the time.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing this. Fortunately we have had good luck with ours for the last 4 years. Probes have been fine and I only cleaned them once very recently. I didn't know about accuracy of the probes over 20 CYA, very good information. I guess if I raise CYA and the orp doesnt work, I could switch to timed. So far it's been very convenient not having to worry about over/under scheduling the time of the stenner pump since it's programmed for ORP.
 

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mknauss said:
You have a lot of complicated magic. Great it works for you.
Click to expand...
Kind of amazed that it all works so well given the complication of the pool/equipment. The Hydrapure ozone stopped working after a warranty replacement and now it's out of warranty. The complication continues as I have 2 fountains that are also have their own dedicated VS pumps and separate filters. I was oversold a bit on all of this.
 
Are you aware that a chlorine pool IS a salt pool? Chlorine and acid both add salt to the pool water.
After a couple of years, your pool will have at least half the ppm of salt. The more chlorine and acid you use the quicker the salt level will rise.

A salt water pool will not increase the likelyhood of calcium buildup. Not properly managing the pool water chemistry will though.

If the tile is correctly installed, no matter the color, the sun heating them up and the water cooling them off repeatedly shouldn't cause them to crack or pop off. If that were the case, everyone with a pool in Phoenix would be picking tile chunks out of their pools.

Ozone for residential pools is pretty worthless and uses additional chlorine.
UV - next time the sun is out (maybe not tomorrow there), look up at that big orange ball in the sky - that's all the UV your outdoor pool will ever need. It's free and does a much better job than any residential UV system could even dream about.

Thanks for the pics! Would love to see more when you get a chance to post them.
A lot going on on that equipmemt pad - but it looks organized.
 
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proavia said:
Are you aware that a chlorine pool IS a salt pool? Chlorine and acid both add salt to the pool water.
After a couple of years, your pool will have at least half the ppm of salt. The more chlorine and acid you use the quicker the salt level will rise.

A salt water pool will not increase the likelyhood of calcium buildup. Not properly managing the pool water chemistry will though.

If the tile is correctly installed, no matter the color, the sun heating them up and the water cooling them off repeatedly shouldn't cause them to crack or pop off. If that were the case, everyone with a pool in Phoenix would be picking tile chunks out of their pools.

Ozone for residential pools is pretty worthless and uses additional chlorine.
UV - next time the sun is out (maybe not tomorrow there), look up at that big orange ball in the sky - that's all the UV your outdoor pool will ever need. It's free and does a much better job than any residential UV system could even dream about.

Thanks for the pics! Would love to see more when you get a chance to post them.
A lot going on on that equipmemt pad - but it looks organized.
Click to expand...
I didn't know that chlorine and acid added salt to the pool. Maybe it adds at a lower level than salt?

Thanks to TFP I have very little calcium buildup but there definitely is some after 4+ years.

That's interesting about the tile, makes sense. It should be properly installed THIS ROUND. The first time they totally blew it and tiles popped off. Next round I made the PB use laticrete and I had the laticrete rep out during the application so I should be good but prefer not taking any chances given that I like the look of the spill edge when running and it doesn't cost too much to run.

Ozone would be only for killing organisms that the chlorine doesn't. Just to make it extra clean water and perhaps lower the chlorine level a little bit. I thought the sun UV only treats the surface of the pool while the UV light treats nearly all the water passing through. I think the ozone is more powerful than the UV.

We had such a small amount of space to fit all that equipment, it was difficult but all is working very well for us, fortunately (minus the broken uv03 hydrorite system)
 
proavia said:
Are you aware that a chlorine pool IS a salt pool? Chlorine and acid both add salt to the pool water.
After a couple of years, your pool will have at least half the ppm of salt. The more chlorine and acid you use the quicker the salt level will rise.

A salt water pool will not increase the likelyhood of calcium buildup. Not properly managing the pool water chemistry will though.

If the tile is correctly installed, no matter the color, the sun heating them up and the water cooling them off repeatedly shouldn't cause them to crack or pop off. If that were the case, everyone with a pool in Phoenix would be picking tile chunks out of their pools.

Ozone for residential pools is pretty worthless and uses additional chlorine.
UV - next time the sun is out (maybe not tomorrow there), look up at that big orange ball in the sky - that's all the UV your outdoor pool will ever need. It's free and does a much better job than any residential UV system could even dream about.

Thanks for the pics! Would love to see more when you get a chance to post them.
A lot going on on that equipmemt pad - but it looks organized.
Click to expand...
 
It seems that one benefit of liquid chlorine is that I can run the pump at a lower speed and still auto dispense chlorine. Many people seem to have to run their swg pump at a much higher speed than may be desired to get salt/chlorine added to the pool.
 
AJB1234 said:
It seems that one benefit of liquid chlorine is that I can run the pump at a lower speed and still auto dispense chlorine. Many people seem to have to run their swg pump at a much higher speed than may be desired to get salt/chlorine added to the pool.
Click to expand...
That's not so. The SWCG could care less what speed the pump was running. As long as you satisfy the flow switch your good to go which can be achieved at ridiculously low rpms saving you lots of electricity.
 
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