Cant keep TA up to proper level

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AJB1234

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Dec 5, 2015
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Newport Beach, CA
Hi TFP,

I have a pool with 2 large infinity spill over edges. I need to run the spillover pump all day since the tiles are black and get very hot in the sun. I taylor kit tested TA 5 days ago at 50 (24 hours after adding baking soda). Five days later the TA is back down to 30. Should I just continue to add baking soda weekly or is it better/easier to have a higher PH (ie around 7.8) to keep the CSI at appropriate levels? I really wish to avoid calcium on a black tile pool so I try and keep PH on the lower end of the acceptable range (maybe this isnt necessary if CSI is really all that matters?).

Thanks for helping!

AJ
 
Post a full set of current test results from one of the recommended test kits.

How are you chlorinating your pool?

Chances are that if you keep CSI slightly negative, you should be okay.
Are you still using your Ozone and UV? Is that for the pool and spa or just for the spa?
 
proavia said:
Post a full set of current test results from one of the recommended test kits.

How are you chlorinating your pool?

Chances are that if you keep CSI slightly negative, you should be okay.
Are you still using your Ozone and UV? Is that for the pool and spa or just for the spa?
Click to expand...
Taylor Kit Results
FC 1.8 (I like it on the lower side)
PH 7.4
TA 30
CH 625 (hard water in so CA)
CYA 20ish (we like this low too)- haven't measured in a while
CSI -52
TEMP 67

Liquid chlorine using sense and dispense

Not using ozone and UV now.

We did use the pool in the last 5 days if that makes a difference with TA

Thank you!!!!
 
Ozone adds aeration which pushes pH up. UV consumes FC.

Minimize your aeration. You need to use soft water for make up water and get your CH much lower if you are unwilling to reduce the aeration. pH will always be high, though with a TA of 30 (and likely your CYA is at or near 0), the pH should not go much above 8.

Your FC of 1.8 with 0 CYA is far more harsh than SLAM level FC based on a proper CYA level.
 
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When measuring the FC, fill the vial to 10ml (instead of 25ml). Each drop of the R-0871 would then count as FC 0.5 (instead of 0.2) - this helps save reagents and is close enough. T
he math is easier too - with 10ml, count the drops until clear and divide by 2.

I'd recommend upping the CYA to at least 30 - 40 would be better. This will help to buffer the harshness of the chlorine.
Use the FC/CYA Levels to see what minimum and target FC ranges are.

Your TA is low and will cause pH swings. Keep the TA in the 50-70 range.

You are stuck with the SoCal hard water. Do you have a water softener?
If you have a water softener, you could plumb the autofill to it and the CH would remain relatively steady.

Try to keep the CSI between 0.00 and -0.30 if possible.
 
mknauss said:
Ozone adds aeration which pushes pH up. UV consumes FC.

Minimize your aeration. You need to use soft water for make up water and get your CH much lower if you are unwilling to reduce the aeration. pH will always be high, though with a TA of 30 (and likely your CYA is at or near 0), the pH should not go much above 8.

Your FC of 1.8 with 0 CYA is far more harsh than SLAM level FC based on a proper CYA level.
Click to expand...
Thanks, makes sense about ozone.
How would I add soft water... love the idea but didn't know that was possible.
I don't understand why PH will always be high as I'm able to keep PH low (7.4) using acid
Sounds like I need to check CYA and if at zero like you mention, I need to increase?
Interesting that FC with 1.8 and 0 CYA is more harsh than slam. I will measure cya.
Are you saying that a TA of 30 and PH of less than 8 is ok if CSI is in check (for minimizing calcium)?

Totally appreciate it!

AJ
 
proavia said:
When measuring the FC, fill the vial to 10ml (instead of 25ml). Each drop of the R-0871 would then count as FC 0.5 (instead of 0.2) - this helps save reagents and is close enough. T
he math is easier too - with 10ml, count the drops until clear and divide by 2.

I'd recommend upping the CYA to at least 30 - 40 would be better. This will help to buffer the harshness of the chlorine.
Use the FC/CYA Levels to see what minimum and target FC ranges are.

Your TA is low and will cause pH swings. Keep the TA in the 50-70 range.

You are stuck with the SoCal hard water. Do you have a water softener?
If you have a water softener, you could plumb the autofill to it and the CH would remain relatively steady.

Try to keep the CSI between 0.00 and -0.30 if possible.
Click to expand...
Good tip about measuring FC, thanks. I have been using 25ml.
I really need to check CYA as that hasn't been done in a while (and half the pool water was emptied followed by some minimal chlorine puck usage while on vacation).

Not really getting PH swings since using auto acid feeder but might be going through more acid than necessary?

I have a house water softener but not with outdoor access. I think plumbing this would be very challenging unfortunately.

To keep CSI between 0 and -.30 because of my low TA, I would need to have a higher than desired PH level 7.8+ which makes me nervous about calcium buildup (unless that is only as a result of a bad CSI number).

Thanks for helping!
 

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I have a whole house water softener that provides soft water to all inside taps.
My pool was on un-softened water from an outside hose bib (until last year).
I ran a new soft water line from my garage (where the softener is located), thru the exterior garage wall, to a backflow preventer, then underground to the location of the autofill pipe.
I used copper pipe until underground and then switched to Sched 40 PVC.
I cut and capped the original un-softened line and tied the new soft water line into the autofill.

Unless your CH was really high (800+), as long as CSI is in the 0.00 to -0.30 range, chances of scaling/calcium build up on the tile is minimal. Of course, you will need to brush the tile with pool water regularly.
I had CH of over 1000 a couple years ago (before I drained and ran the soft water line). I had no scale/calcium buildup at the water line.

Bring your TA up to 50-ish and the pH can be kept at 7.8 or below - CSI will still be in range.
Use PoolMath to play around with the numbers to see what changing TA will do to CSI. Change pH and do the same.
 
proavia said:
I have a whole house water softener that provides soft water to all inside taps.
My pool was on un-softened water from an outside hose bib (until last year).
I ran a new soft water line from my garage (where the softener is located), thru the exterior garage wall, to a backflow preventer, then underground to the location of the autofill pipe.
I used copper pipe until underground and then switched to Sched 40 PVC.
I cut and capped the original un-softened line and tied the new soft water line into the autofill.

Unless your CH was really high (800+), as long as CSI is in the 0.00 to -0.30 range, chances of scaling/calcium build up on the tile is minimal. Of course, you will need to brush the tile with pool water regularly.
I had CH of over 1000 a couple years ago (before I drained and ran the soft water line). I had no scale/calcium buildup at the water line.

Bring your TA up to 50-ish and the pH can be kept at 7.8 or below - CSI will still be in range.
Use PoolMath to play around with the numbers to see what changing TA will do to CSI. Change pH and do the same.
Click to expand...
Well that's definitely interesting. I would love to get my soft water tapped into my autofill. Would this be at the pool equipment pad or the autofill by the pool itself?

Good news about the high CH. It definitely creeps up higher than most pools with the spillover edge on most of the day.

I thought brushing was really for algae and didnt have much to do with calcium buildup... thanks for sharing this with me.

What's your CH at now with soft water?

It's tough to keep TA at 50 as it dropped to 30 in 5 days unless I add baking soda weekly.

I'm using poolmath app and do play with the CSI.... love it!
 
AJB1234 said:
...so calcium is all about the CSI and doesn't matter what numbers make the CSI in range. That's great to know, thanks.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Once CH gets above 600 ppm or so, evaporite scale is almost impossible to prevent. So water line scale builds quickly.
 
AJB1234 said:
Well that's definitely interesting. I would love to get my soft water tapped into my autofill. Would this be at the pool equipment pad or the autofill by the pool itself?

Good news about the high CH. It definitely creeps up higher than most pools with the spillover edge on most of the day.

I thought brushing was really for algae and didnt have much to do with calcium buildup... thanks for sharing this with me.

What's your CH at now with soft water?

It's tough to keep TA at 50 as it dropped to 30 in 5 days unless I add baking soda weekly.

I'm using poolmath app and do play with the CSI.... love it!
Click to expand...
It wasn’t directly mentioned but the TA is probably dropping so much because of all the acid you are using to keep in the pH that low (and compensate for the aeration)
 
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