Can I leave my pool uncovered for winter?

[Rich D]

We are located in northern Massachusetts.
We had a medium grey plaster pool With in floor cleaning system installed last year. The plaster was completed in Aug of 2017.
When the PB came to cover and winterize pool the tech recommended not covering pool because there were no trees or debris that really blew into pool. I believe the main factor for him not covering it was the challenges presented from our Boulder waterfall. However being new pool owners and having the ability to enjoy the view of the pool ( located aprrox 20 off house with a beautiful Boulder water fall) was very appealing to us. We have a sun self wich is aprrox 1 foot deep. He drained pool well below sun Shelf and put a few Frost blankets on top of sun shelf with some water bags to protect it. He told me to keep the water below sun shelf so the ice would not form on the shelf and cause any issues. This spring we now have the white mottling that is apparently inherent to a grey plaster pool (this was not explained to use by PB when selecting pool surface). One tech that came out said it looked a like the mottling was was more form a 2-3 yr old pool instead of a 1 yr old pool. The heaviest mottling is on the "unprotected" flat surfaces IE - steps and small shelf beside love seat. From my research there is no practical solution to get ride of this issue but I would not want it to get worse.


What I have not been able to determine from all my research is how much of this was caused by "not covering the pool". It gets sun from early afternoon till sunset in winter.


My first question would be is how detrimental it is to the plaster to be drained that low and exposed to sunlight and air for the winter months. We would love to be able leave pool uncovered and enjoy the view.


My second question - do you feel it is necessary to drain the pool below the sun shelf?



Thanks, Rich..

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello Rich and welcome to the forum! I'm surprised some of our northerners haven't chimed in with some replies yet. Closing time will be upon many very soon. Many will leave their pool uncovered, especially in situations like yours where there are few concerns for debris. One less thing to worry about. But just to welcome you and get your thread kicked-off, I'll give you my 2-cents worth on those questions:
1 - The safety and protection of your equipment is #1, so if you have to lower the water level to prepare for closing, that takes priority over the exposed plaster. Good thing is it will be getting cooler, so you won't have the intense summer heat beating down on the plaster which is one reason we don't like to leave it exposed.
2 - Drain below the sun shelf? Not specifically a concern. The amount of water you need to drain in order to properly close can vary on the pool type. As is typically each year, the winter rains/snow often increase the water level anyways.
Pool School - Closing (Winterizing) Your Above Ground Pool
ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
Welcome!

 

[cfherrman]

I leave my agp uncovered due to windy Kansas. I can't help you with plaster questions but I can tell you what happens with the water chemistry.

It is still rather sunny in Kansas during the winter so I lose quite a bit of water, around 1.5-2 feet. If your fill water is off good quality it's not a concern but your ch will go up due to replacing evaporated water. The sun left a organic waterline stain on the north side of the pool that cleared easy with a magic eraser and being filled with the water.

It's gets windy here and a few wind storms blew in a ton of dirt, I added bleach and brushed monthly and kept it clear. I opened early to clean up the pool and slacked on the bleach and the dirt hid algae, a lot of algae. The pool went from completely clear with green tint to a gross green from one brushing. I have a robot now and if the owners manual doesn't mind cold water I will be using it to clear out dirt during the winter. I also thought of using a cheap agp vac that fills water at the same time.

 

[Rich D]

Thanks for the reply..

I have read all the posts about this subject here and anything else I could find on the web. I am comfortable with the debris and chemical balance aspect of no cover. My biggest concern is the extra possible mottling or any other damage that could occur to the med grey plaster from not covering. I have not been able to find much information on the affect of sunlight on the exposed plaster in the cold winter months.


"2 - Drain below the sun shelf? Not specifically a concern. The amount of water you need to drain in order to properly close can vary on the pool type. As is typically each year, the winter rains/snow often increase the water level anyways."

This is a large concern for me. The Boulders that make up the water fall sit on a submerged boulder shelf. The shelf is 6" below the water line (3" below bottom of tile ). I know I do not want any water on or above the boulder shelf so I would want to drain at leat 3" below that. Wich puts me at 9" below waterline. That means I I already have the shelf beside the love seat (shown in pic) and the step going onto sun shelf exposed. This also only leaves 3" of water on the sun shelf. I believe that was the concern of the pool tech when closing last year. With the in floor cleaning heads on the shelf (removed and plugged of course) he decided to drain below the sun shelf. So that put me at 18" below waterline. So now I have alot of exposed plaster for the winter.

I am hoping to hear from another pool owner That has a similar dark plaster color in the northeast that does not cover pool in winter .

Thanks again... Rich.

 

[jeffchap]

I'm not in the NE, but my pool is the same color as yours with a sun ledge and I don't cover it nor do I drain it any over the winter. I just dial my pump run time back to only a couple of hours per day to keep the surface skimmed. I have a freeze protection feature that runs the pump any time the air temp drops below 35 deg, and that kept any substiantial ice from forming even over a weeklong spell of single digit temperatures this past winter.

I didn't notice any dramatic increase in my electric bills although I imagine you would have considerably more days under 35 than we do, so that might be more of an issue for you.

 

[Rich D]

I'm not in the NE, but my pool is the same color as yours with a sun ledge and I don't cover it nor do I drain it any over the winter. I just dial my pump run time back to only a couple of hours per day to keep the surface skimmed. I have a freeze protection feature that runs the pump any time the air temp drops below 35 deg, and that kept any substiantial ice from forming even over a weeklong spell of single digit temperatures this past winter.

Thanks for the reply..

Could I ask how old your pool is?

Do you notice your mottling getting worse every year or does it stop after a while?

 

[jeffchap]

The pool was installed in 2006, but I've only owned it for a year. But I bought it from a friend so I've been aware of it for years and I don't notice any change.

 

[Dirk]

Hi! Welcome to TFP.

Your pool is awesome. What a stunning backdrop.

I don't know how much, if any, the sun contributes, but plaster mottles. Pebble, too. The darker the color, the more it's noticeable. Embrace it, or prepare for disappointment, because it's going to happen in your pool whether you cover it or not. I like the color variation. Looks more organic to me. (See? Embrace it!)

I have 11-month-old pebble, it's already happening. Prevoius plaster surface was very mottled.

jeffchap, your pool and yard are also amazing. What did she say? What did she say?! (It looks like she's being proposed to, with friends watching, anxiously awaiting her reply!)

 

[Texas Splash]

jeffchap, your pool and yard are also amazing. What did she say? What did she say?! (It looks like she's being proposed to, with friends watching, anxiously awaiting her reply!)

My guess is a baptism.

 

[Dirk]

OK, that fits. She's happy about it, either way...

 

[jeffchap]

My guess is a baptism.

Yes, that was a baptism bash we held at our house last month. That's my daughter getting baptized.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Going topless does not hasten or cause mottling.

& I am as New England as they come.

 

[Rich D]

Your pool is awesome. What a stunning backdrop.

Thanks.. Myself and the little woman did all the boulder work including the waterfall.. There is a seat for 2 under the falls as well.

I don't know how much, if any, the sun contributes, but plaster mottles. Pebble, too. The darker the color, the more it's noticeable. Embrace it, or prepare for disappointment, because it's going to happen in your pool whether you cover it or not. I like the color variation. Looks more organic to me. (See? Embrace it!)

I am just starting to learn just that.. Our pool salesman took us on a 'pool tour' however failed to show us a med grey plaster. instead all we saw were pebble tech, Wich I did not like the feel of. I love the smooth plaster finish. I do like the color variation, just afraid it will soon turn into a 'totally very light grey' color with no variation. oh and I could have done without the 4 footprints in the deep end .

I have 11-month-old pebble, it's already happening. Prevoius plaster surface was very mottled.

How old was the previous plaster?
What was the reason you for replacing It?

Thanks, Rich.

 

[Rich D]

Going topless does not hasten or cause mottling.

& I am as New England as they come.

Thanks for the reply..

Are there any other issues from sun and air that could be harmful to the plaster in the winter months? I have read that plaster should always be under water and could dry and get cracks if left exposed to sun and air. Of course the fact in freezing climates the water level needs to be lowered, kind of goes against that statement. Do you think I really need too lower the level below the sun shelf or is 3" of water on the shelf (with the floor cleaning heads) a non issue? My thought was to just put the frost blankets on the shelf under the 3" of water for additional protection but was not sure if the blanket itself freezing to the shelf would stain or harm the plaster.

Thanks, Rich.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks.. Myself and the little woman did all the boulder work including the waterfall.. There is a seat for 2 under the falls as well.

I am just starting to learn just that.. Our pool salesman took us on a 'pool tour' however failed to show us a med grey plaster. instead all we saw were pebble tech, Wich I did not like the feel of. I love the smooth plaster finish. I do like the color variation, just afraid it will soon turn into a 'totally very light grey' color with no variation. oh and I could have done without the 4 footprints in the deep end .

How old was the previous plaster?
What was the reason you for replacing It?

Thanks, Rich.

I love all the big rock. Very nice.

I chose pebble for longevity, but it's definitely nowhere near as comfortable as plaster. I don't regret the pebble, but it better last 25 or 30 years! There's a picture floating around here somewhere that shows a cross-section view of a chunk of chipped out pebble, and the top 1/32" layer is this dull, washed out grey, while just under that is the rich, original color. I hope that's not what I'm in for.

More footprints!? What's with these guys? We've had a couple threads here recently, by owners experiencing awful stains in their new plaster, all in the shape of footprints. Hard to believe these contractors don't know better. I watched my guys as they were finishing up, curious to see how they were going to do that last bit of the deep end, as they had been painting themselves into that corner all day. One guy left standing down there, he was carefully using cardboard to get around on the plaster, then his buddies hauled him out of the pool with a rope.

I inherited my pool and plaster from the previous homeowner. The pool couldn't have been more than five years old. In addition to the thorough mottling, which I liked, the plaster was well stained with calcium deposits. Huge, long streaks the width of the pool, all over the bottom. And the edge tiles were trashed with calcium scaling. All the maintenance company's doing (which I inherited along with the pool). They offered to "fix" the scaling: $900 for an acid wash, $900 for tile blasting. (Double the going rate around here, to fix the problem they created!! Way to take advantage of a newbie pool owner.) I opted for only the wash. Long story longer: they destroyed the plaster with the acid wash, then denied responsibility. This was last summer. Last fall I had it replaced. A few months ago, after a protracted battle, they ponied up for the repair. I got kinda abandoned by the replacement maintenance company, on day 2 of the new pebble startup, and found TFP in my search for what to do on day three. Fired everybody involved and have been taking care of the pool since.

So I can now vouch for what poor water maintenance can do to a pool, especially the effects of not maintaining good pH, CH and CSI numbers. And I have since expressed my anti-pool-guy and anti-acid-wash rhetoric in hundreds of posts... To be fair, all those knuckleheads did me a favor. If they hadn't been so bad at their profession, I never would have found TFP. I'd still be paying them outrageous sums of money, and my pool's chemistry would still be awful. TFP has given me the knowledge to extend my pool's life, and to keep it looking as good as it can look!

 

[cfherrman]

You can bet when acid wash shows up in a thread, Dirk is there to police the thread!

I certainly don't have the plaster experience, leave 3" of water on the shelf sounds like a very bad idea and you can plan on all that ice freezing and probably broken pipes in the sun shelf.

Winters here have been mild and I have seen 4-5"+ of ice on top of my pool

 

[PoolguyinCT]

There won’t be any broken pipes if well prepared.
Post your system photo please.


I’m not feeling the hot blanket idea.

 

[Rich D]

Post your system photo please.

.

Will do..

 

[jimim]

I thought the main issue with having us needing to close in winter is a few things. Get all the water out of the lines due to freezing. Also we need to drain below the skimmercmouths to not get water in the skimmers so they don't freeze and blow. Also to keep water off our tile so it doesn't feeeze and thaw and stay wet and pop.

my builder and my goal this winter was to keep any water at least 3 inches away from the tile at all times. So this kept tile dry as we could be along with below the skimmers. I uncovered and drained as much and often as possible. I was successful. Through the ice and all. The one problem we did have was one of my plugs for returns piped out. We caught it and re learned the lines. Once it happened we were all ice off and alomost ready to open. He thinks it happened cause I was draining and ice was still on and when I drained down the ice pulled the one plug out so this winter he is trying something else. He said not a plug u tighten but a threaded one in place of the eyeball since it screws on.

But i thought we have to drain down because of that and we don't have to worry about plaster racking othnot being covered sauce it's so cold out and wth the cover on even mesh it helps keep direct sunlight off.

jimi

 

[cfherrman]

You can drain under the skimmer/return and then blow the lines clean with a shop vac, then got drains either airlock them and/or fill with antifreeze.

You can also plug your skimmer opening and plug your returns so you don't have to drain the water down.

Which is best? Depends on your pool and your area and water replacement cost is probably a factor.

Personally, I don't like water on the sun shelf and uncovered you might lose that much water to evaporation putting the little but there at risk to freezing.