can anyone recommend 50amp rated timer for a Heat Pump?

[pmh3986]

Can anybody recommend an 50amp 240v outdoor timer to control my Hayward HeatPro 140,000 BTU heat pump?
Here's my dilemma:

I was running a single speed Pentair pump on an Intermatic T104 timer (240v, rated for 40 amps) and I'd turn the pump off when it got dark, and the heater would go idle at the same time since no water was flowing through it. Really no reason to keep the heat pump running while it's dark anyway.

I've since replaced my pump with a Pentair Intelliflow3 variable speed pump, such that I can run it for 24 hours (better water quality) but kick it down into low-flow (20gph) for all of the evening and overnight hours. (I run it at high speed for a couple hours in the morning, "medium" speed around 30gph until early evening and then low speed over night)

So I'm no longer using the timer, but the problem is, at 20gph, the heat pump will go on and off, in and out of the "low flow" state (sometimes it'll stay on, often it kicks on and off which I'm sure isn't good for it.)

So in the absence of an expensive automation system, I wanted to put the heat pump on the timer I have and just program it to coincide with the programming of the Pentair variable speed pump. The heat pump though is on a 50amp circuit, the timer is rated for 40 amps. I've tested the heat pump circuit using an ammeter and know that it never actually exceeds 25amps during initial startup draw or while running, so I'm sure it's safe, but I worry could fail an inspection. I'm not finding any 50amp rated 240v timers though, surely there must be something reasonable? Or maybe I just go with what I have...

 

[1poolman1]

Can anybody recommend an 50amp 240v outdoor timer to control my Hayward HeatPro 140,000 BTU heat pump?
Here's my dilemma:

I was running a single speed Pentair pump on an Intermatic T104 timer (240v, rated for 40 amps) and I'd turn the pump off when it got dark, and the heater would go idle at the same time since no water was flowing through it. Really no reason to keep the heat pump running while it's dark anyway.

I've since replaced my pump with a Pentair Intelliflow3 variable speed pump, such that I can run it for 24 hours (better water quality) but kick it down into low-flow (20gph) for all of the evening and overnight hours. (I run it at high speed for a couple hours in the morning, "medium" speed around 30gph until early evening and then low speed over night)

So I'm no longer using the timer, but the problem is, at 20gph, the heat pump will go on and off, in and out of the "low flow" state (sometimes it'll stay on, often it kicks on and off which I'm sure isn't good for it.)

So in the absence of an expensive automation system, I wanted to put the heat pump on the timer I have and just program it to coincide with the programming of the Pentair variable speed pump. The heat pump though is on a 50amp circuit, the timer is rated for 40 amps. I've tested the heat pump circuit using an ammeter and know that it never actually exceeds 25amps during initial startup draw or while running, so I'm sure it's safe, but I worry could fail an inspection. I'm not finding any 50amp rated 240v timers though, surely there must be something reasonable? Or maybe I just go with what I have...

Use your timer to power on and off a 50 contactor (relay) as used in HVAC. They are about $25 all over the Internet. You would also need an enclosure for the contactor. You can get a 6x6 exterior box at Home Depot for the contactor (would need to drill your own holes).

Hartland Co - Contactor, DPST, 240VAC Coil, 50A - HCC-2XU04AAC, DPC50-240

Hartland Co - Contactor, DPST, 240VAC Coil, 50A - HCC-2XU04AACDouble pole contactorAction: DPSTAmps: 50240 vac coilReplacement For: 5-00-003345FG20AGB (Furnas)HCC-2XU04AA (ProductsUnlimited)CON3645 (Comfortzone)HARHCC2XT04GGC (Davis)60-240-1030Siemans # 45FG20AG

pool-spa-supplies.com

 

[pmh3986]

That's a great idea, thank you! I'd have to power the timer itself with a different circuit.. could just pull off the existing "panel GFCI" I have for general purpose use.

 

[pmh3986]

Hartland Co - Contactor, DPST, 240VAC Coil, 50A - HCC-2XU04AAC, DPC50-240

Hartland Co - Contactor, DPST, 240VAC Coil, 50A - HCC-2XU04AACDouble pole contactorAction: DPSTAmps: 50240 vac coilReplacement For: 5-00-003345FG20AGB (Furnas)HCC-2XU04AA (ProductsUnlimited)CON3645 (Comfortzone)HARHCC2XT04GGC (Davis)60-240-1030Siemans # 45FG20AG

pool-spa-supplies.com

View attachment 604275

Looking more closely at that specific relay you pointed out, it's still only 40amp FLA, exactly what my timer is. But the heat pump is on a 50amp circuit with #6AWG.

 

[1poolman1]

Looking more closely at that specific relay you pointed out, it's still only 40amp FLA, exactly what my timer is. But the heat pump is on a 50amp circuit with #6AWG.

They are out there. You could always try this one to be sure (you only have to use two poles):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019GNYBJM/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=b780476732a5d8ecf427aeb815593c2e&hsa_cr_id=0&qid=1723750846&sr=1-3-9e67e56a-6f64-441f-a281-df67fc737124&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_2_title&pd_rd_w=fUZOT&content-id=amzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942%3Aamzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_p=8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_r=YM2YYBMTK8BCPXZVZGXJ&pd_rd_wg=p3hNU&pd_rd_r=d00b2630-3869-4776-821a-b9c3a3bf376b&th=1

 

[pmh3986]

They are out there.

I'll find one! I like the idea a lot.

 

[MSchutzer]

Doesn't the heat pump have a low voltage 24vac fireman's switch contact that can be used by automation to control the water's temperature.

Couldn't you just run that 24vac low current contact through any regular timer to enable / disable heating when you want to?

You would still use the heat pump controls to set the temperature as you are now, but when the fireman's link is opened the heat pump would be disabled. That might be easier than finding space for a 50A 220v contacter.

 

[pmh3986]

Doesn't the heat pump have a low voltage 24vac fireman's switch contact that can be used by automation to control the water's temperature.

Couldn't you just run that 24vac low current contact through any regular timer to enable / disable heating when you want to?

You would still use the heat pump controls to set the temperature as you are now, but when the fireman's link is opened the heat pump would be disabled. That might be easier than finding space for a 50A 220v contacter.

You know, it might. I just learned of this a few hours ago looking more closely at the manual for the heat pump:

https://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/Products/Manuals/166536_201710510512.pdf

On pg. 10 of the manual it describes using an external controller, and it looks like there's an external switch labeled "pool" where I guess the output of the timer would go to close or open that switch allowing the heater to go on or off. Is that what you are referring to as a fireman's switch?

 

[pmh3986]

They are out there. You could always try this one to be sure (you only have to use two poles):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019GNYBJM/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=b780476732a5d8ecf427aeb815593c2e&hsa_cr_id=0&qid=1723750846&sr=1-3-9e67e56a-6f64-441f-a281-df67fc737124&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_2_title&pd_rd_w=fUZOT&content-id=amzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942%3Aamzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_p=8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_r=YM2YYBMTK8BCPXZVZGXJ&pd_rd_wg=p3hNU&pd_rd_r=d00b2630-3869-4776-821a-b9c3a3bf376b&th=1

Thanks for taking the time to look yourself and edit your post. I actually landed on that same model shortly after I started looking!

 

[pmh3986]

edit to add: another option is using two of the $20 device you posted first, put one on each leg

 

[ajw22]

edit to add: another option is using two of the $20 device you posted first, put one on each leg

NEC requires both hot legs of a 240V circuit to be switched together.

 

[MSchutzer]

You know, it might. I just learned of this a few hours ago looking more closely at the manual for the heat pump:

https://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/Products/Manuals/166536_201710510512.pdf

On pg. 10 of the manual it describes using an external controller, and it looks like there's an external switch labeled "pool" where I guess the output of the timer would go to close or open that switch allowing the heater to go on or off. Is that what you are referring to as a fireman's switch?

Yes, that paragraph in the manual describes how to use that contact to remotely enable the heater. That contact is a little different than the fireman’s switch as it’s used to switch modes, but if you disable pool mode, and then set your desired temperature on Spa mode, that contact closing will effectively enable / disable the heater.

 

[pmh3986]

but if you disable pool mode, and then set your desired temperature on Spa mode, that contact closing will effectively enable / disable the heater.

I'm having trouble visualizing what that looks like using just the 240v timer I have now. Aren't those external switches 24v? So I'd set "spa" temperature where I want the pool to be at and then toggling the Pool contact would turn it on/off?

 

[pmh3986]

NEC requires both hot legs of a 240V circuit to be switched together.

Good point.
If I go the contactor route, my existing timer will need its own 15 or 20amp double pole breaker. Do you know if NEC would dictate that breaker must be GFCI?

 

[ajw22]

Good point.
If I go the contactor route, my existing timer will need its own 15 or 20amp double pole breaker. Do you know if NEC would dictate that breaker must be GFCI?

Electrical GFCI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Heat pumps do not require a GFCI. Heat pumps fall under NEC 680.45 as a "circulation heater" which requires a GFCI when supplied by a branch circuit of 150 volts or less. Any pool Heat Pump that runs on 240 volts then does not require a GFCI.

 

[pmh3986]

Electrical GFCI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Heat pumps do not require a GFCI. Heat pumps fall under NEC 680.45 as a "circulation heater" which requires a GFCI when supplied by a branch circuit of 150 volts or less. Any pool Heat Pump that runs on 240 volts then does not require a GFCI.

Thank you. Understood that the 240v heat pump does not require GFCI. All outlets, the water pump, any lighting requires GFCI. It's still unclear to me if the timer itself (which would power the contactor that powers the 240v heat pump) would also need GFCI

 

[ajw22]

Thank you. Understood that the 240v heat pump does not require GFCI. All outlets, the water pump, any lighting requires GFCI. It's still unclear to me if the timer itself (which would power the contactor that powers the 240v heat pump) would also need GFCI

Depends how the timer is wired. If the timer is plugged into an outdoor outlet the outlet would need to be GFCI since it is outdoors.

If the timer is wired using liquidtight whips then no GFCI is required.

 

[pmh3986]

Depends how the timer is wired. If the timer is plugged into an outdoor outlet the outlet would need to be GFCI since it is outdoors.

If the timer is wired using liquidtight whips then no GFCI is required.

My plan was to mount the timer on the wall adjacent to the panel and then route #12AWG from a 20amp double pole breaker (NON GFCI) through PVC conduit (no whips, standard glued PVC conduit fittings) into the timer. From the timer, again through glued PVC, to a 6x6 PVC outdoor box in which the contactor would be mounted. More glued PVC conduit from the panel to the contactor box and from the contactor box out to the heat pump. I'd probably put a box on the wall near the heat-pump where all the glued PVC conduit lands, and then from there run a 3' liquid tight whip out to the heater itself.

thanks again, your input is much appreciated!

 

[ajw22]

My plan was to mount the timer on the wall adjacent to the panel and then route #12AWG from a 20amp double pole breaker (NON GFCI) through PVC conduit (no whips, standard glued PVC conduit fittings) into the timer. From the timer, again through glued PVC, to a 6x6 PVC outdoor box in which the contactor would be mounted. More glued PVC conduit from the panel to the contactor box and from the contactor box out to the heat pump. I'd probably put a box on the wall near the heat-pump where all the glued PVC conduit lands, and then from there run a 3' liquid tight whip out to the heater itself.

thanks again, your input is much appreciated!

Use the proper gauge THWN wire.

 

[pmh3986]

Use the proper gauge THWN wire.

Yup, that's a given!