Calcium Flakes

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SuperMiguel

SuperMiguel

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2017
123
Florida
Hello all I been having all sorts of issues with my pool (about 7 months old) has some high pH for a while, then some stains, PB tried doing a wet acid wash, which increased my CH to over 1000, ended up hiring a company to do my weekly maintenance, and it think he is doing worst than I was, he uses test strips and just wings everything (so ill probably be firing him soon)

My last finding are Calcium Flakes, I have a ton of them, just like in the picture (not mine but looks just like that). Here are my results from today:

FC 10
pH 7.8
TA 100
CH 925
CYA 40
SALT 3400

I know FC is high because pool service guy increased the Salt generator to 70% 2 weeks ago and never told me, so chlorine really high, I changed it back to 20% hopefully it goes down by it self. Anyways currently my biggest worry are the flakes.



Calcium%20Flakes.png
 
With CH nearly 1000, TA 100 and pH in the higher 7s, your CSI will be quite high. And even higher within the SWG cell where pH is locally increased. What's your water temperature?

For now, you can try to lower your TA to 70 (or lower, but not below 50) and maintain you pH in the lower 7s.

Borates might help to reduce the pH rise within the SWG cell.

Turn on CSI and temperature logging in PoolMath. With an SWG you want a slightly negative CSI (between 0 and -0.3).

But eventually, you'll have to dump some water to get the CH down. Maintaining a low enough pH to keep CSI low will be a constant battle against CO2 induced pH rise, you rather want CH and TA low enough to be able to maintain pH around 7.8 where it is more stable.

And try to avoid acid washing in the future to fix a cosmetical problem, you have seen the problems that come with that. Each acid wash will remove some plaster and reduce the time until you need to replaster.

For metal stains, there are other treatments, and what doesn't come of with them (or SLAMming for organic stains), I would try to just live with.
 
mgtfp said:
With CH nearly 1000, TA 100 and pH in the higher 7s, your CSI will be quite high. And even higher within the SWG cell where pH is locally increased. What's your water temperature?

For now, you can try to lower your TA to 70 (or lower, but not below 50) and maintain you pH in the lower 7s.

Borates might help to reduce the pH rise within the SWG cell.

Turn on CSI and temperature logging in PoolMath. With an SWG you want a slightly negative CSI (between 0 and -0.3).

But eventually, you'll have to dump some water to get the CH down. Maintaining a low enough pH to keep CSI low will be a constant battle against CO2 induced pH rise, you rather want CH and TA low enough to be able to maintain pH around 7.8 where it is more stable.

And try to avoid acid washing in the future to fix a cosmetical problem, you have seen the problems that come with that. Each acid wash will remove some plaster and reduce the time until you need to replaster.

For metal stains, there are other treatments, and what doesn't come of with them (or SLAMming for organic stains), I would try to just live with.
Click to expand...
Thanks!! Quick question when you say that i should drain some water, can i take out about 2k gallos and replace it with SOFT water? It was low (almost 0 CH) or should i use reg water? Just not sure if im creating a new problem by adding soft water
 
Soft water is great. You just don't want to fill a complete pool with softened water, but it's perfect for replacing evaporation losses, or now to reduce your CH level. But you'll probably have to replace a bit more than 2K.

Do you have a whole house water softener, where you would get this soft water from? Will you be able to use soft water in the future to top up the pool?

How did your CH get do high? What is the CH of the water that you have been using to replace evaporation losses until now? Or, as JJ_Tex was already hinting, has Cal-Hypo been used a lot to supplement the SWG?
 
mgtfp said:
Soft water is great. You just don't want to fill a complete pool with softened water, but it's perfect for replacing evaporation losses, or now to reduce your CH level. But you'll probably have to replace a bit more than 2K.

Do you have a whole house water softener, where you would get this soft water from? Will you be able to use soft water in the future to top up the pool?

How did your CH get do high? What is the CH of the water that you have been using to replace evaporation losses until now? Or, as JJ_Tex was already hinting, has Cal-Hypo been used a lot to supplement the SWG?
Click to expand...
Yes i guess i was thinking to do 2k like every other week or something to fully prevent structural damage. Yes i have a whole house water softener system, and i been using it to fill evaporation, but its not going down that fast with just that. It got that high by what im assuming a bad wet acid wash, basically PB dumped a bunch of acid but never added the chemicals to raise the pH theh basically let it bump it self back up, and based on what i read that makes the CH go crazy
 
Update:

Added a gallon of acid to lower pH and hopefully it will lower TA as well. Cleaned my Salt cell (was full of calcium build up) and also cleaned my filter cartridges. Ill probably start dumping water this afternoon and replace it with soft water to help/aid the lowering of CH... Any other recommendation is welcome
 
SuperMiguel said:
It got that high by what im assuming a bad wet acid wash, basically PB dumped a bunch of acid but never added the chemicals to raise the pH theh basically let it bump it self back up, and based on what i read that makes the CH go crazy
Click to expand...

Ah, of course it did, you already covered that in your first post, and I already commented on it 🤦🏼

I'd say there are no "good" acid washes, they always create problems. It gives a PB a payable activity, and it brings the really big payable activity - replastering - a fair bit closer. And the result initially usually looks good.

Anyway, it is what it is now.

SuperMiguel said:
Yes i have a whole house water softener system, and i been using it to fill evaporation, but its not going down that fast with just that.
Click to expand...

It will not go down at all like that. Water evaporation leaves the calcium behind in the water. So, after the evaporation you have the same number of Ca ions in a slightly smaller volume of water, after you replaced the evaporated water with (ideally) calcium free water, you have exactly the same Ca concentration (i.e. the same CH) as before. That means by replacing evaporation losses with softened water, you can maintain (if CH really is zero) the status quo.

To actively reduce CH, you have to remove Ca with the water (i.e drain water rather than evaporation) and then replace it with water that contains less calcium (ideally none at all).

For slightly elevated CH levels, just backwashing a bit more often and/or draining water after rain falls (or even better, pre-drain some water when a big rain dump is forecasted) can do the trick, but in your case I'd suggest a more aggressive approach.

There also is a Wiki article on draining:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

SuperMiguel said:
Cleaned my Salt cell (was full of calcium build up) and also cleaned my filter cartridges
Click to expand...

Try to avoid cleaning with muriatic acid (even though that's what the manufacturer asks you to do). Keep pH in the lower 7s until your CH is sufficiently down and manage you CSI to minimise future scale build up. If cleaning the cell becomes necessary, then follow the steps in this article:

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 

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mgtfp said:
Ah, of course it did, you already covered that in your first post, and I already commented on it 🤦🏼

I'd say there are no "good" acid washes, they always create problems. It gives a PB a payable activity, and it brings the really big payable activity - replastering - a fair bit closer. And the result initially usually looks good.

Anyway, it is what it is now.



It will not go down at all like that. Water evaporation leaves the calcium behind in the water. So, after the evaporation you have the same number of Ca ions in a slightly smaller volume of water, after you replaced the evaporated water with (ideally) calcium free water, you have exactly the same Ca concentration (i.e. the same CH) as before. That means by replacing evaporation losses with softened water, you can maintain (if CH really is zero) the status quo.

To actively reduce CH, you have to remove Ca with the water (i.e drain water rather than evaporation) and then replace it with water that contains less calcium (ideally none at all).

For slightly elevated CH levels, just backwashing a bit more often and/or draining water after rain falls (or even better, pre-drain some water when a big rain dump is forecasted) can do the trick, but in your case I'd suggest a more aggressive approach.

There also is a Wiki article on draining:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com



Try to avoid cleaning with muriatic acid (even though that's what the manufacturer asks you to do). Keep pH in the lower 7s until your CH is sufficiently down and manage you CSI to minimise future scale build up. If cleaning the cell becomes necessary, then follow the steps in this article:

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
Not sure how many gallons it will be but i can drain like 10” and fill, wait few days drain 10” and fill will this work? Just trying to prevent any issues
 
SuperMiguel said:
Update:

Added a gallon of acid to lower pH and hopefully it will lower TA as well. Cleaned my Salt cell (was full of calcium build up) and also cleaned my filter cartridges. Ill probably start dumping water this afternoon and replace it with soft water to help/aid the lowering of CH... Any other recommendation is welcome
Click to expand...

Hello everyone So on top of all that ^ i replaced about 3k gallons, flakes seem to be gone at least are not visible, and here are some new test results:

FC 1.5
pH 7.5
TA 90
CH 725
Temperature (water) 85
CSI 0.17

So at this point, should i hold few days for it to stabilize? or should i exchange lets say another 2-3k gallons to keep lowering that CH?

Thanks everyone!
 
Last edited:
Keep in mind that you are also draining salt and CYA, it's scaling down with the same factor as your CH, but water probably not well mixed yet.

Your SWG might get unhappy with low salt. I would add some liquid chlorine asap.

You either want to be very quick and drain as much as possible before the fresh water mixed in.

Or take it in stages, let it mix. I'd use liquid chlorine along the way do you don't have to worry about salt levels along the way.
 
mgtfp said:
Keep in mind that you are also draining salt and CYA, it's scaling down with the same factor as your CH, but water probably not well mixed yet.

Your SWG might get unhappy with low salt. I would add some liquid chlorine asap.

You either want to be very quick and drain as much as possible before the fresh water mixed in.

Or take it in stages, let it mix. I'd use liquid chlorine along the way do you don't have to worry about salt levels along the way.
Click to expand...
How long would you say it takes to mix well?
 

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