Builder suggesting single speed pump

Pentair IntelliConnect costs less than $500 unless your builder marks it up a lot. Which he should not do since it replaces electrical wiring he would otherwise need to do and should have already been included in his pricing.


That should add a small cost to your overall build cost.
 
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Pickle,

Your pool builder wants to install a DE filter for the same reason he wants to install a single speed pump... he is old school and stuck in the past..

Plus.. an idiot can open and clean a large cartridge filter... Not so much a DE filter... I'm sure he would be willing to stop by and clean it for $$$$$.. :mrgreen:

First time I took a DE filter apart, and cleaned the grids, it took me over an hour to get the grids to go back together... I almost cried.. :cry: It does get easier over time..

I had two rent house pools with DE filters, and I finally replaced them with large cartridge filters in the last couple of years... I will never, ever go back to using DE filters again.

I have a very simple pool set-up and 'love' my Automation system. But, I will be the first to say it is a 'want' and not a 'need'.. If you had an integrated pool and spa set-up, then in my opinion, it would be a needed item..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Pickle,

Your pool builder wants to install a DE filter for the same reason he wants to install a single speed pump... he is old school and stuck in the past..

Plus.. an idiot can open and clean a large cartridge filter... Not so much a DE filter... I'm sure he would be willing to stop by and clean it for $$$$$.. :mrgreen:

First time I took a DE filter apart, and cleaned the grids, it took me over an hour to get the grids to go back together... I almost cried.. :cry: It does get easier over time..

I had two rent house pools with DE filters, and I finally replaced them with large cartridge filters in the last couple of years... I will never, ever go back to using DE filters again.

I have a very simple pool set-up and 'love' my Automation system. But, I will be the first to say it is a 'want' and not a 'need'.. If you had an integrated pool and spa set-up, then in my opinion, it would be a needed item..

Thanks,

Jim R.
Ok so i read that the DE cleans better but is a pain to clean when you have to. Am i right to assume the cartridge filters need cleaned more often and dont filter as well as DE? Are they cheaper in the long run? I guess its DE vs cartridge.

You mentioned "large cartridge". Are you suggesting i should over size it?

THANKS!
 
Ok so i read that the DE cleans better but is a pain to clean when you have to.

DE gets a bum rap.

DE filters with an MPV (Multi Purpose valve) can be backwashed. I can backwash my DE filter and load it with clean DE in less than 15 minutes and never get wet.

About once a year you should open a DE filter and give the grids a good cleaning. That takes about the same time and effort as cleaning filter cartridges.

Some municipalities have restrictions on DE disposal since D I’m haled can be carcinogenic . With proper handling and disposal DE is not a problem.

Am i right to assume the cartridge filters need cleaned more often and dont filter as well as DE?

Both filters work equally well.

The larger the filter, the less often they need to be cleaned.

Are they cheaper in the long run?

Assume cost of ownership is equal.

I guess it’s DE vs cartridge.

Yup. Each has its pros and cons.
You mentioned "large cartridge". Are you suggesting i should over size it?

Larger means less often cleaning.


 
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Larger means less often cleaning.
Just to play devil's advocate (or: Just one guy's opinion)...

The notion that a larger cartridge filter means cleaning it less often is popular here, and pretty much has to be true. But...

I have a very clean yard and pool, so only have to clean my filter once a year. I've even skipped a year a couple times. I am grateful I have a smaller filter, because cleaning cartridges is a pain and I'm glad I don't have to clean bigger ones. For me, a larger filter would only be more work, not less cleanings, and would make no difference in the clarity of my water.

Further, a larger filter is more expensive then a smaller one, takes up more room, and its replacement cartridges (which have to be purchased periodically) are also more expensive than smaller cartridges.

I would suggest sizing the filter based on the "dirtiness level" of your yard and pool, rather than just "bigger is better." The problem, of course, is how does one predict how dirty their pool water will get when they don't yet have the pool!? Unfortunately, there are no real guidelines for this dilemma. You could take an educated guess, though:
- Do you rake up a lot of leaves where the pool will go? No.
- Do you experience a lot of pollen? No.
- Will you have a lawn near your pool, such that cutting the grass with throw blades into the water? No.
- Do you have a lot of bird droppings everywhere in your yard? No.
- Does your concrete and patio furniture collect a fine dust that has to be cleaned often? Some.
- Do you have a lot of wind that blows dirt and debris into your yard? No.
- Do you have a fence that blocks stuff from getting into your yard? Yes.
- Do you have a lot of plants in your yard, especially near the pool, that will drop leaves, flowers, etc? No.
- Do your surrounding neighbors have messy trees? No.
- Will there be hairy animals swimming in the pool? No.
- Will you have a suction-side vacuum cleaner (which sends its collections to the filter), or a robot cleaner (that collects its stuff in a bag on the robot)? Suction.

When I answer those questions (in Red), it's no wonder I don't need a bigger filter. Most weeks I pull less than a handful of crud from either my skimmer basket or the basket on my pump.

If you answer those questions similarly, maybe you don't need a huge filter. On the other hand, if you can predict now that your pool is going to collect a lot of crud, or can't even answer some or all of those questions, then get the bigger filter.

If you can't predict your filter needs, play it safe. A filter that is too big is going to be less work than a filter that is too small.
 
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Ok so i read that the DE cleans better
Any filter removes your yard crud that blows in. That crud then becomes the filter, trapping even finer crud. A moderately dirty filter is more efficient than a clean one, until it's so dirty it reduces flow.

IMO your yard determines the level of cleaning you will get, the only question is how fast will sand/cart get a little dirty to catch up to the DE filter after cleaning them.


If we are keeping score, put me down for a cartridge vote.
 

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Ok so i read that the DE cleans better but is a pain to clean when you have to. Am i right to assume the cartridge filters need cleaned more often and dont filter as well as DE? Are they cheaper in the long run? I guess its DE vs cartridge.

You mentioned "large cartridge". Are you suggesting i should over size it?

THANKS!
For reference, even a sand filter…filters very very well. I think I only had to backwash mine once last year and that was only because I realized it hadn’t been done yet, not because it needed it. I’m not suggesting you get a sand filter, only that the cleaning performance difference probably won’t be noticeable.
 
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Just to play devil's advocate (or: Just one guy's opinion)...

The notion that a larger cartridge filter means cleaning it less often is popular here, and pretty much has to be true. But...

I have a very clean yard and pool, so only have to clean my filter once a year. I've even skipped a year a couple times. I am grateful I have a smaller filter, because cleaning cartridges is a pain and I'm glad I don't have to clean bigger ones. For me, a larger filter would only be more work, not less cleanings, and would make no difference in the clarity of my water.

Further, a larger filter is more expensive then a smaller one, takes up more room, and its replacement cartridges (which have to be purchased periodically) are also more expensive than smaller cartridges.

I would suggest sizing the filter based on the "dirtiness level" of your yard and pool, rather than just "bigger is better." The problem, of course, is how does one predict how dirty their pool water will get when they don't yet have the pool!? Unfortunately, there are no real guidelines for this dilemma. You could take an educated guess, though:
- Do you rake up a lot of leaves where the pool will go? No.
- Do you experience a lot of pollen? No.
- Will you have a lawn near your pool, such that cutting the grass with throw blades into the water? No.
- Do you have a lot of bird droppings everywhere in your yard? No.
- Does your concrete and patio furniture collect a fine dust that has to be cleaned often? Some.
- Do you have a lot of wind that blows dirt and debris into your yard? No.
- Do you have a fence that blocks stuff from getting into your yard? Yes.
- Do you have a lot of plants in your yard, especially near the pool, that will drop leaves, flowers, etc? No.
- Do your surrounding neighbors have messy trees? No.
- Will there be hairy animals swimming in the pool? No.
- Will you have a suction-side vacuum cleaner (which sends its collections to the filter), or a robot cleaner (that collects its stuff in a bag on the robot)? Suction.

When I answer those questions (in Red), it's no wonder I don't need a bigger filter. Most weeks I pull less than a handful of crud from either my skimmer basket or the basket on my pump.

If you answer those questions similarly, maybe you don't need a huge filter. On the other hand, if you can predict now that your pool is going to collect a lot of crud, or can't even answer some or all of those questions, then get the bigger filter.

If you can't predict your filter needs, play it safe. A filter that is too big is going to be less work than a filter that is too small.
Thank you for that information... Based on your questions, I would put me done for needing a mega filter... While my yard has no trees, it abuts woods and the creek so i do have some leaf litter. Its not terrible but will happen. I think you guys have convinced me to go for the large cartridge filter. I wouldnt mind backwashing the DE but my yard isnt huge and wouldnt want DE everywhere with kids running around.

Thanks
 
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OK, The builder is proposing a hayward salt system 40K cell and a hayward NG heater 150k BTU. I am definitely increasing the size of the heater to at least 300k BTU.

I need to ask the builder about keeping everything the same. I want everything to play nice with eachother. I will reasearch large cartridge Hayward filters and VS pumps.
 
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The builder is proposing a hayward salt system 40K cell
Hayward tops out at 40k so you're limited if you go with them and need it controlled by automation. (Or that's all the builder sells if you dont need automation).

Its fine for PA because your UV demand is much friendlier than in the desert. In the peak season you may need to run it 16+ hours, but only for a few weeks because PA. June and Sept don't have as much daily loss and you'll run it alot less accordingly.

Again, this is where the large VS pump shines, because you won't like the electric bill from running almost all day every day with a single speed pump. And that's the 24 hour 'day', not just for daylight.

No matter which filter you go with, you can put hair nets in the skimmers to stop most of the crud from ever hitting the filter. But then you need to constantly change those in heavy debris times. It's kinda half a dozen or six if you have one huge cleaning occasionally, or a bunch of hair nets swaps. I don't see the need myself because I got a large filter to make less work. Might as well let it do it's thing IMO.
 
Hayward tops out at 40k so you're limited if you go with them and need it controlled by automation. (Or that's all the builder sells if you dont need automation).

Its fine for PA because your UV demand is much friendlier than in the desert. In the peak season you may need to run it 16+ hours, but only for a few weeks because PA. June and Sept don't have as much daily loss and you'll run it alot less accordingly.

Again, this is where the large VS pump shines, because you won't like the electric bill from running almost all day every day with a single speed pump. And that's the 24 hour 'day', not just for daylight.

No matter which filter you go with, you can put hair nets in the skimmers to stop most of the crud from ever hitting the filter. But then you need to constantly change those in heavy debris times. It's kinda half a dozen or six if you have one huge cleaning occasionally, or a bunch of hair nets swaps. I don't see the need myself because I got a large filter to make less work. Might as well let it do it's thing IMO.

The UV issues make sense. We are partially shaded here in central PA so i assume 40k should be ok. I am 100% going variable pump after talking you you folks.

With that said, i couldnt find 3HP hayward pumps, which is what numerous people suggested. The builder just texted and said Hayward super pump VS 700 which is 1.65 HP.
I know hayward makes tristar vs 950 but have to research model differences (i know one is 2.5 vs 1.65 HP) Not 100% sure on tristar vs super pump at the moment.

I have 2 daughters so the hair net skimmers is actually a good idea.... I sometimes think they shed more than dogs do... :)
 
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i couldnt find 3HP hayward pumps, which is what numerous people suggested.

Hayward Triton VS 950 is a 2.7hp pump. It is a great VS pump.

 
Pickle,

VS pumps come in two basic sizes..

Small, which are about 1.5 HP... The 1.65 HP Hayward is considered a small VS pump.

Large, which is about 3 HP.. The 2.5 HP Hayward is considered a large VS pump.

It is cheaper to buy the small VS pump, and they will work.. They just will not work as well as a large VS pump.

The larger the pump, the slower you can run and still move a lot of water.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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