Re: Beginning estimate process... what do I need to look for?
Hi Bassadict, I've been working on a list of considerations when interviewing PB's and planning your pool. It is an accumulation from many people. It's definitely a rough draft, so excuse the mistakes. There's still more work to be done like including points made on this thread and others I plan to look at, include specific items for vinyl pools and fiberglass and above ground, and maybe some different organizing of the topics I've used. Then.... the experts here will give their feedback.
So keep in mind this has its shortcomings, but maybe it will help anyway. Be sure to ask me any questions since I will know what I meant (hopefully!). Don't let it overwhelm you. Take one section at a time. Pick and choose what applies to your situation and what you most want to know.
Here are a couple of worthwhile notes to keep in mind including: Make sure you can work with the PB and whoever you will be communicating with throughout the build. It's a long process. No point in starting with someone who brings out the beast in you!
Kimkats: Quite a few PB’s don't know the actually workings for a pool and the build. They depend on the subs doing the work to know what needs to be done. Saying that, some do know the ins and outs. So long as they don't lie to you things will go good. kimkats
Gwegan: Always get bids from at least two builders, three bids is better. Try to get them to bid on roughly the same thing. I paid for a conceptual drawing and got bids off of that. Pool builders want to use their design and choices so it is difficult to compare bids.
Prepare before the First Meeting
1. Have ready to give the PB or salesperson a copy of your property map which includes easements, etc.
2. Avoid
--- ‘package deals’ unless you have flexibility
--- Mineral system
--- fusion system
--- UV system
--- Ozone system
3. If you’ve been reading on TFP before you begin meeting with PB’s, know what you want. You can also skip some of the items below if you want to give the pool designer more freedom to create.
--- free form, rectangle, L-shape
--- approximate length and width
--- approximate depths
--- spa (raised or not; hidden or infinity), sunshelf, steps, benches, beach entry
--- how to plumb the spa; do you need blowers or not
--- water features: bubblers, sheer descents, scuppers, water and/or fire bowls, grotto, rock water wall, slide, jump rock, diving board, deck jets
? --- type of automation: PDA, through computer and cell phone
--- how to control the water features: each able to come on/off separately, grouped together, etc
--- method of chlorination: chlorine or a swg
--- type of pump: two speed, variable speed
--- heater, heat pump, or solar
--- type of filter: cartridge, sand, DE
?--- type of lighting: color shows, nicheless, standard?, white, small ones for small areas
? --- type of pool cleaner: robot, in floor system, side suction, ??? suction
--- do you want an overflow and an autofill
--- Do you want a cover for your pool?
--- Decking? Does the PB do this? Materials: concrete (brushed, stained, pea gravel, stamped, dyed, salt brushed?), pavers (flagstone, concrete, travertine, techo blocks, bluestone, etc), cool deck
--- pool finish: plaster, colored plaster, quartz, martzite?, pebble, AquaBright,
About the company
1. Years in business?
2. Who is the owner if not you?
3. Number of employees?
4. What services are provided directly by your company crews?
which will be sub'd out?
-. How long have the crews or subs worked for them?
5. Are you in the process of selling the business or transitioning any key responsibilities to someone else?
6. Average pools built in a year?
7. Any lawsuits in the last 5 years? (the PB or the company)
8. How many other jobs do you typically run at one time? At this time?
9. Please send list of references. Can we see their pools in person?
10. Run us through your process/steps during this interview stage and the build stages.
About the Pool Builder
1. How did you get into pool building?
2. Do you have direct personal experience with any parts of the build? (ie, you were first a plumber, an electrician, you built pools with your dad, etc)
Company Services
1. Do you handle landscaping, or do you have a landscaper you like to work with or recommend?
2. What Hardscape/Site Improvements are included as part of the core bid? (ie grading, drainage, etc…)
3. What brand of equipment do you use?
4. What type of water sanitization do you use? (chlorine or salt water generator)
5. What are the rebar standards you use?
6. What types of finishes do you offer? Which brands? (ie, PebbleTec, WetEdge, etc)
Responsibilities during Construction
1. If wider access is needed through the fence/gate, will you provide temporary fencing?
2. Will you repair/replace the fence if necessary to its original condition?
3. Will you repair/replace any broken concrete on sidewalks or driveways that result from construction traffic?
4. Will you repair/replace damaged lawn from construction traffic or other construction mishaps?
5. Will you repair/replace broken irrigation outside of the dig zone such as the(path leading to jobsite?
6. Will you repair/replace any broken or damaged existing incidentals on the property? (such as windows, gutters, tile, lighting, plumbing, electrical fixtures, etc)
7. Will you arrange for all utility marking?
8. Who is responsible for the repair costs of any cut or broken service lines (Cable/Phone/Gas/Power)?
Company Policies, Guarantees, Warranties
1. What kind of payment schedule will you be requesting? Make sure the payment schedule is back loaded. If you have to pay anything up it should be small. At least 10% should be payable five days after final inspection and completion of the punch list.
3. Are there any situations where you will be asking for earlier payment than what is agreed upon up front? I wouldn’t ask this, I wouldn’t want to open that door.
4. What guaranties and warranties do you provide and for how long? Get these in writing.
-- from the PB company
-- from the crews
-- from gunite/shotcrete of the pool shell, finish company, etc
-- any others
5. What are the warranties on equipment? Is there a benefit buying all one brand?
Plans, Bids/Proposals, Contract
1. Who will be doing the plans/drawings?
2. Do you have any soil concerns are there for our area, and is there anything you do to address it? (ie, high water table, bedrock, expansive clay, etc)
-. Does our area need to have the pool engineered?
3. When will we receive the plan? How do we make changes – phone, meeting, etc?
4. How many plan/drawing revisions do we get? I wouldn’t ask this. I might want more than he sets.
5. Can you provide a 3D render? Cost? I wouldn’t ask this.
6. Will you itemize your bid? Tell him you want/expect an itemized bid.
7. Ask for model numbers on all equipment listed on the bid.
8. Can you provide a sample contract with your bid submittal? I don’t get this? Mine was one and the same. My PB just sent me updates to it.
9. How do you handle change orders? Will you commit in the contract to following an in-writing change order process? I’m not sure what this is. This seems to be getting pretty legal - maybe necessary in some places. I would make sure I requested any changes via email or in writing, so you have the requests documented.
10. Will you add contract deadline with a penalty for missing it? I haven’t heard of this.
Applications, Permits, Inspections
1. Are you familiar with our specific sub-division HOA rules and approval process?
2. Who will make the application to the HOA?
3. Do you pull all required Building Permits?
4. Will you or someone else be present for all inspections? If not, what do I need to know about the inspection process?
Licensing, Accreditation, Insurance, Safeguards for the Client **Be sure to verify these yourself
1. Are you a member of any professional pool builder organizations?
2. What is your BBB Rating? Any recent complaints? Have they been resolved?
3. How is your Credit and/or Dunn & Bradstreet rating?
4. Will you provide written Lien Releases for yourself and all sub's prior to final payment? Does this need to come much sooner?
5. Will you include a subcontractor/vendor Proof of Payment clause in the contract?
Ask the salesman or PB to provide proof for the following:
6. Do you have a current and valid Contracting License?
7. Do you carry general liability insurance? How much?
8. Do you carry workers’ compensation insurance?
9. How are your subs insured?
Project Manager’s Duties
1. Who will be in charge of the job?
2. How often will he be on-site? Is there a backup?
3. Will he be on-site to meet every sub the very first time the subs show up? This often does not happen.
4. Will he do an on-site review at completion of work with each sub crew? This often does not happen.
About the Workers/Crews
1. Will you let us review your sub-contractor selection? Ask this only if you have knowledge of the sub-contractors in your area.
2. If I have a particular vendor or sub I want used for a specific job like gunite or surface finish, how is that handled? You can request a sub, and the PB may even say ‘yes’, but who actually shows up at the last minute may be a different story.
3. Do you provide a port-a-john during construction? Do people really ask this?
4. Will the crews protect the house, windows, and patio from all concrete/plaster overspray with plastic sheeting or tarps?
5. How often will the crews clean-up debris? Varies widely from 2-3 times during the build.
6. Will you guarantee that the front yard is always free of trash and debris at the end of the day? This rarely happens on a daily basis. Ask the PB if you have a HOA which is extremely picky.
7. Will you do a thorough clean-up at the end of the job, including a magnetic sweep for nails, etc?
8. What hours will the workers usually be on-site? Any weekends?
After the Drawing and Bid are Submitted
-. Is there any part of the job that you are un-sure of or have reservations about?
-. Is there anything jumping out at you which we could change or do differently as a money saver?
-. How many skimmers and where?
-. How will the skimmers be plumbed?
-. Drain set up? Round, rectangle
-. How will the drains be plumbed?
-. How many returns and where?
-. How many lights and where? What kind?
-. How deep for the sun shelf?
-. What size for the equipment pad?
-. The spa
--- how many jets
--- position of the jets
--- heights of the benches (measure bodies of people using it)
--- standard or deep well
--- speeds of the jets (slow, medium, turbulent)
My apologies this doesn't address your specific needs for fiberglass and vinyl pool options. I can try to round up some people who know more about those. Just let me know!!!
Good luck and take care,
Suz
It's a Ford vs Chevy thing. Those who have them love their SWGs, and those who don't have them are used to simply adding some bleach each day when they're out there anyways.
