Automation upgrades - Pentair Easytouch..

[sjoshi]

hi all, thanks to this forum and a few other resources, I taught myself basic pool maintenance in a few days and now have my pool chemistry, basic plumbing and operation under control! This new-to-me pool was a great learning experience for first time pool owner given all the gaps that existed.

The two things I am still missing in the Pentair Easytouch set up (SWCG pool + spa) are: a way to automate a little acid dosing if possible (using IntelliChem or Intelli PH) and being to manage the overall operation remotely by wifi. Both these features will be very helpful if I am out for say 2 to 4 weeks and especially if weather changes quickly. Pentair Easytouch has Intellichem on menu but does not have the Intelli PH on the menu. And no wifi control. This house is 5 years old, I am assuming the EasyTouch was not obselete when installed, lol.

So first question -- IntelliChem or IntelliPH? I am looking for a little simple acid dosing to avoid the pH going up a lot. Neighbor has Intelli Chem and seems to be ok with it, but I have heard Intelli pH is better for this purpose?

Second to get wifi -- My options may appear to be -- platform upgrade or in the extreme case, get Intellicenter? Seems i should re-use the Easytouch I have if I can, since Intellicenter is not cheap. What is the recommendation?

TY all for the help!

 

[Jimrahbe]

s,

Do you currently have ScreenLogic??? If not, you can buy an IntelliCenter upgrade for not much more..

I would do a Stenner as a standalone acid pump.

In my mind you want the ability to control the SWCG all the time, not just when the iPH says you can.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[sjoshi]

s,

Do you currently have ScreenLogic??? If not, you can buy an IntelliCenter upgrade for not much more..

I would do a Stenner as a standalone acid pump.

In my mind you want the ability to control the SWCG all the time, not just when the iPH says you can.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi TY! I do not have screen logic. So should I get the Intellicenter upgrade kit and a standalone Stenner pump? Is there a recommended Stenner kit? I have a 15K gallon pool plus spa, currently running on Pentair IC20 but I have a IC40 on order.

 

[Jimrahbe]

s,

The choice between ScreenLogic and the upgrade to the new IntelliCenter has a lot to do with you.

If you are going to install it yourself, then it makes sense to be to go with the IntelliCenter.

But... The EasyTouch is an old but pretty stable platform. The new IntelliCenter appears to be having growing pains or bugs.

I suggest that you do a search on Acid feeder and Stenner.. I don't have one and don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[sjoshi]

s,

The choice between ScreenLogic and the upgrade to the new IntelliCenter has a lot to do with you.

If you are going to install it yourself, then it makes sense to be to go with the IntelliCenter.

But... The EasyTouch is an old but pretty stable platform. The new IntelliCenter appears to be having growing pains or bugs.

I suggest that you do a search on Acid feeder and Stenner.. I don't have one and don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.

Thanks,

Jim R.

TY much!

 

[sjoshi]

Decided to go with ScreenLogic. Will upgrade to Intellicenter when this easytouch / screenlogic combo stops working. Took all of 10 mins to install and get it up and running on both phone and PC! Was able to dial down a 74 gpm constant flow to 30 gpm for pool / spa combo while keeping water features operational. A quick side project to play with the Pentair actuators was fun.

Now need to work on the acid dosing, waiting for pool guys to come and estimate.

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

The problem I see with Pentair's acid dosing is the that it takes control over the SWCG.

The IntelliChem must have the CYA at 30 or less, which does not work well with TFP care process. The IntelliChem also controls the SWCG.

The ipH has several issue in that the circuit cards burn up, and it also want to control the SWCG.

I like a standalone system that you just set up to add x amount of acid each day and it has nothing to do with when and how the SWCG is working,

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[MyAZPool]

@sjoshi
Just my own personal opinion.
I wouldn't own another IntellipH (controller), for all the same reasons that Jim points out.
I experienced all of those very same issues and ditched the controller a few years ago and converted my ipH tank and pump unit to a more or less "stand-alone" acid dosing system.
Although I have no experience with the actual IntelliChem system, I have also heard about the same SWCG and CYA issues.
r.

 

[sjoshi]

S,

The problem I see with Pentair's acid dosing is the that it takes control over the SWCG.

The IntelliChem must have the CYA at 30 or less, which does not work well with TFP care process. The IntelliChem also controls the SWCG.

The ipH has several issue in that the circuit cards burn up, and it also want to control the SWCG.

I like a standalone system that you just set up to add x amount of acid each day and it has nothing to do with when and how the SWCG is working,

Thanks,

Jim R.

Ty and agree. A standalone system with safety measures (flow on?) and wifi would be high on my list!

 

[sjoshi]

@sjoshi
Just my own personal opinion.
I wouldn't own another IntellipH (controller), for all the same reasons that Jim points out.
I experienced all of those very same issues and ditched the controller a few years ago and converted my ipH tank and pump unit to a more or less "stand-alone" acid dosing system.
Although I have no experience with the actual IntelliChem system, I have also heard about the same SWCG and CYA issues.
r.

How do you convert an iPH type system into a simple standalone? Or do you recommend some other solution that can be used stand alone?

My neighbor has intellichem.. loves it, but keeps needing to add alkali. I am just looking for a simple way to add a little diluted acid in case I am out of town, or even just generally -- will be nice to deal with acid once or twice a month instead of once a week.

Calling @MyAZPool

 

[MyAZPool]

How do you convert an iPH type system into a simple standalone? Or do you recommend some other solution that can be used stand alone?

My neighbor has intellichem.. loves it, but keeps needing to add alkali. I am just looking for a simple way to add a little diluted acid in case I am out of town, or even just generally -- will be nice to deal with acid once or twice a month instead of once a week.

Calling @MyAZPool

@sjoshi
I use a controller called "REM Chem" It provides automated dosing for Muriatic Acid based on sensor pH readings but much more than that. You might think of it as sort of a DIY IntelliChem on "steroids", as it has more functions, safeguards and flexibility than the IntelliChem does.

Essentially it manages the water chemistry. It interfaces with sensors to manage the pH (and ORP if applicable). Per the REM Chem Wiki -

"The REM Chem controller is feature rich and will provide automated dosing for chlorine as well as acid. In my system I use tank based dosing for acid and IntelliChlor for sanitation control. The system operates pretty hands off and only requires adding acid to the acid tank periodically. There are a number of convenience features as well as safety features built into the system."

Here is a screenshot of my particular dashPanel

As you can see from my dashPanel above, it allows a user to view the current levels, add chemicals to your chemical tanks, enter testing results, manually dose chemicals, and set mix times after adding other chemicals. From here you can also adjust your set points to match the target chemistry for your water.

Here are my pH Settings and Hardware Settings screens.


You spoke about having safety features and insuring that dosing occurs ONLY when there is flow from the pump?
Is the following something like you might be referring to?


And yes, you can control the system from a laptop/desktop, mobile phone (if that was what you were referring to when you mentioned "WiFi"). You can also integrate this system with other Home Automation Bindings like "Home Assistant" ,"Homeseer" etc.

And if you're wondering if all this is compatible with your EasyTouch, IntelliChlor etc. The answer is YES.

If you would like to explore this system further, here are just a couple of links that you might find useful and to get you started if something like this might be of interest to you.
DIY REM Chem Controller
GitHub - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController: An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers.

Alternative Pool Automation and Sensor/Chemical Control and Integration

I hope you may find this somewhat useful.
r.

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

Keep in mind that you can also simply use an EasyTouch relay to turn an acid pump on and off.. You would just schedule it like you do any other EasyTouch Aux circuit..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[MyAZPool]

S,

Keep in mind that you can also simply use an EasyTouch relay to turn an acid pump on and off.. You would just schedule it like you do any other EasyTouch Aux circuit..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,
Are you using this method now to dose acid?
If so, just curious how your experience using this method is going so far and maybe a couple of other questions to satisfy my own curiosity.
Besides the "simplicity" factor (which is a real plus of course ), what other upsides and downsides to this method of acid dosing, would you say you are experiencing?
Thanks much...
r.

 

[sjoshi]

@sjoshi
I use a controller called "REM Chem" It provides automated dosing for Muriatic Acid based on sensor pH readings but much more than that. You might think of it as sort of a DIY IntelliChem on "steroids", as it has more functions, safeguards and flexibility than the IntelliChem does.

Essentially it manages the water chemistry. It interfaces with sensors to manage the pH (and ORP if applicable). Per the REM Chem Wiki -

"The REM Chem controller is feature rich and will provide automated dosing for chlorine as well as acid. In my system I use tank based dosing for acid and IntelliChlor for sanitation control. The system operates pretty hands off and only requires adding acid to the acid tank periodically. There are a number of convenience features as well as safety features built into the system."

Here is a screenshot of my particular dashPanel
View attachment 511881
As you can see from my dashPanel above, it allows a user to view the current levels, add chemicals to your chemical tanks, enter testing results, manually dose chemicals, and set mix times after adding other chemicals. From here you can also adjust your set points to match the target chemistry for your water.

Here are my pH Settings and Hardware Settings screens.
View attachment 511883 View attachment 511884

You spoke about having safety features and insuring that dosing occurs ONLY when there is flow from the pump?
Is the following something like you might be referring to?

View attachment 511882
And yes, you can control the system from a laptop/desktop, mobile phone (if that was what you were referring to when you mentioned "WiFi"). You can also integrate this system with other Home Automation Bindings like "Home Assistant" ,"Homeseer" etc.

And if you're wondering if all this is compatible with your EasyTouch, IntelliChlor etc. The answer is YES.

If you would like to explore this system further, here are just a couple of links that you might find useful and to get you started if something like this might be of interest to you.
DIY REM Chem Controller
GitHub - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController: An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers.

Alternative Pool Automation and Sensor/Chemical Control and Integration

I hope you may find this somewhat useful.
r.

Wow, looks great TY

 

[Jimrahbe]

Are you using this method now to dose acid?

r.

I am not...

I was going to get an acid feeder, but over time, my TA has come down, and I just need to add acid once a week at most.

When I was thinking about it, I did run an experiment where I just added a specific amount of acid every day, once a day, and found it keep my pH pretty stable.
I finally decided that for me, it was easier to just add it about once a week. Keep in mind that I am retired, so this is not much of an issue.

Your way makes more sense if your goal is perfection, but I am in the close is close enough camp on this one..

Several years ago we had many members talking about their Stenner acid systems almost every day. I have not seen much of this lately, not sure why.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[sjoshi]

I am happy to add manually once a week as well but with occasional travel, i would rather not be in recovery mode.

 

[mknauss]

Float a trichlor tablet when you will be gone over a week. That is what I do during summer when pH rises due to fill water. They are acidic.

 

[MyAZPool]

r.

I am not...

I was going to get an acid feeder, but over time, my TA has come down, and I just need to add acid once a week at most.

When I was thinking about it, I did run an experiment where I just added a specific amount of acid every day, once a day, and found it keep my pH pretty stable.
I finally decided that for me, it was easier to just add it about once a week. Keep in mind that I am retired, so this is not much of an issue.

Your way makes more sense if your goal is perfection, but I am in the close is close enough camp on this one..

Several years ago we had many members talking about their Stenner acid systems almost every day. I have not seen much of this lately, not sure why.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,
Thanks... Reason I asked is - I have a neighbor who much like the OP, has an EasyTouch+IntelliChlor and wants to go to auto acid dosing... BUT, he doesn't want an IntellipH or IntelliChem for all the obvious reasons but also he doesn't want a nuclear reactor control center at his pool pad either.

I was hoping to find someone who was simply using an automation panel relay to activate their peristaltic pump. And to see how that is working out for them and what problems if any, they were experiencing with a simple "time-based" dosing system vs a "demand-based" system like I'm running.
Anyway,
Thanks again!
r.

 

[Jimrahbe]

but also he doesn't want a nuclear reactor control center at his pool pad either.

I can understand that...

I know the Stenner works as we have had a number of users.. They just use an Aux relay to provide power to the Stenner motor for X minutes a day.

Still means you have to routinely check your pH and adjust as required. But should be reasonably stable once it is dialed in.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jaimslaw]

I can understand that...

I know the Stenner works as we have had a number of users.. They just use an Aux relay to provide power to the Stenner motor for X minutes a day.

Still means you have to routinely check your pH and adjust as required. But should be reasonably stable once it is dialed in.

Thanks,

Jim R.

About 5 or so years ago, I joined in with a chorus of posts and threads about a DIY Stenner pump acid injection set up. I contributed my step by step install pictorial tutorial for the install. Stood on the shoulders of others in contributing to how to go about this set up, which I found amazingly easy.

To this day, I wonder why anyone enjoying the convenience of a SWCG wouldn’t want to enjoy the same convenience benefit (and PH level stability) that a simple acid injection setup offers. I mean, one of the benefits of a SWCG is not having to periodically dump chlorine into the pool from a jug ….sort of a head scratcher why you would settle for not automating the other half of the chemical handling routine.

It was a god send for me. Rock solid PH levels which had been an issue cuz of multiple Spa spillovers in my pool jacking up the ph.