Looking for a new pool in Toronto Canada for 2021 season - advice needed

[HermanTX]

I lot of the cost is for the 50-60ft of cable that comes with a new complete unit. Also, you have to realize, its for a pool, that in itself increases the price. Buying through a PB will also have a mark up. If you buy it yourself, then search the threads in the forum for easy install tips to pull the wire through.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Anyone can drown in an inch of water..... believe it.
You want the entire spa and baja shelf covered to protect them from leaves, droppings, evaporation, yada yada yada.

Maddie

 

[HermanTX]

I like your concept and design. Maybe I am not fully following your concern. It appears your fountain is flowing back into the pool. I have a waterfall (just replace that as your tanning ledge with fountains & deck jets). It has suction from the pool (it looks like a main drain but is located on a side wall), goes to the equipment pad where I have a 1 1/2hp single speed dedicated pump, and returns to the waterfall. It is a completely separate circulation path from the main filter & pump for the pool. It stays primed 100% of the time.
I would think you can do the same but your return may be multiple pipes (I only have 1 for the waterfall) that would allow you to independently control flow back to the tanning ledge and to the deck jets that are in it.

 

[johnkim2020]

I lot of the cost is for the 50-60ft of cable that comes with a new complete unit. Also, you have to realize, its for a pool, that in itself increases the price. Buying through a PB will also have a mark up. If you buy it yourself, then search the threads in the forum for easy install tips to pull the wire through.

Thanks. I worked with a reputable Chinese pool supplier that supplied me with fountain light but they also make pool light. For RGB 24W poollight, they charge $50/each which is inline with LED light.

50ft waterproof cable shouldn't cost that much either...

My pool is fiberglass and will be installed soon. Does each light need a separate conduit for the wire? I'm planning to put in 20 lights.

 

[gingrbredman]

I'm not sure I can give you the "typical" cost of a Coverstar cover, but I'll give you my experience in looking at prices in the Chicagoland area. It looks like you are in Canada so your mileage may vary.

When I was receiving quotes for pool builds, a automatic cover was on our list of "must haves". For the Coverstar in particular, we were quoted anywhere between $13,250 to $15,000. We ended up going with the PB who was charging $13,500.

There are a few options to look at in the Coverstar lineup. The mechanism type (there are 4 options), track types, and lid types. These will all affect the pricing.

Coverstar Central

coverstarcentral.com

Some of the other builders we looked at were quoting "automatic cover" prices, but didn't list the model, and since we never got too far into the process, we never found which models they were. Their prices were from $10,000 to $12,000. From my later research, they could have been "APC" covers.

With this pool you are looking at, if you really like it as it sits, and wanted a Coverstar, you may get away with the deck mount cover, which should cover the entire water area as is. Something to look at.

After looking more at these covers and talking with my builder, I almost wish I went with an APC cover vs. the Coverstar we are going to install, but will reserve final judgement until they get it in. For the lid option we are getting, it appears as if there would be an "unfinished look" when the cover is all rolled in. APC uses a trim piece on the top of the FB shell and concrete collar to make everything all tied together, but it looks like Coverstar does not, and in closer inspection, you can still see part of the concrete collar and the top of the shell. At least that is what I've seen from my builder, but I also do not have mine installed yet.

For my PB, when installing a Latham brand pool, they always install a Coverstar for warranty purposes (something about the whole Latham portfolio of companies). When they install vinyl liner pools, they always go with APC covers.

 

[CPS Reno]

Your pool looks fairly close to the Viking Astoria. We had the same issue with coping on the "tub walls" that you mentioned. The answer (for us) was natural stone. See pics.

As for the cover, all brands are about the same quality and IMHO the builder has WAY MORE to do with the success of your cover than the manufacturer. The biggest driver in cover price, aside from square footage of fabric, is the lid combo. We only use the new Zero Reveal lid from Coverstar. It's the only lid that looks complete, again IMHO, but it's about $2000 more than the standard two piece aluminum lid. I think GBread ^^^ is talking about the exposed area of the bond beam (top of fiberglass) that the cover rides on. We are about to start tiling that area 100% of the time, mainly because the concrete breaks down rather quickly and it's just kind of ugly. I would ask your PB to do that if you go with a cover. Side note, Latham has made some changes to the leadership of the fiberglass division and the tiles bond beam is likely going to be a warranty requirement.

 

[johnkim2020]

I'm not sure I can give you the "typical" cost of a Coverstar cover, but I'll give you my experience in looking at prices in the Chicagoland area. It looks like you are in Canada so your mileage may vary.

When I was receiving quotes for pool builds, a automatic cover was on our list of "must haves". For the Coverstar in particular, we were quoted anywhere between $13,250 to $15,000. We ended up going with the PB who was charging $13,500.

There are a few options to look at in the Coverstar lineup. The mechanism type (there are 4 options), track types, and lid types. These will all affect the pricing.

Coverstar Central

coverstarcentral.com

Some of the other builders we looked at were quoting "automatic cover" prices, but didn't list the model, and since we never got too far into the process, we never found which models they were. Their prices were from $10,000 to $12,000. From my later research, they could have been "APC" covers.

With this pool you are looking at, if you really like it as it sits, and wanted a Coverstar, you may get away with the deck mount cover, which should cover the entire water area as is. Something to look at.

After looking more at these covers and talking with my builder, I almost wish I went with an APC cover vs. the Coverstar we are going to install, but will reserve final judgement until they get it in. For the lid option we are getting, it appears as if there would be an "unfinished look" when the cover is all rolled in. APC uses a trim piece on the top of the FB shell and concrete collar to make everything all tied together, but it looks like Coverstar does not, and in closer inspection, you can still see part of the concrete collar and the top of the shell. At least that is what I've seen from my builder, but I also do not have mine installed yet.

For my PB, when installing a Latham brand pool, they always install a Coverstar for warranty purposes (something about the whole Latham portfolio of companies). When they install vinyl liner pools, they always go with APC covers.

Thanks. Did you go with a separate guy that installed your pool cover or it was your pool builder that did it?

My pool guy told me to budget $18k cad before tax so about $14k USD which sounds inline with what you paid.

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I have a level spa and the dam between the pool & spa is covered with nice smooth tile, not coping. The flat top of the dam has the same tiles as the pool waterline, and the dam edges are covered with matching smooth quarter-round tiles. These don't cause significant extra wear on my auto-cover.

Now that it's daytime, I can add a photo. See the nice smooth rounded tiles. Before I renovated the pool a couple years ago, the tile there had more of a square edge, and my cover was always developing pinholes where it dragged over the tile. Now it doesn't.

 

[johnkim2020]

Your pool looks fairly close to the Viking Astoria. We had the same issue with coping on the "tub walls" that you mentioned. The answer (for us) was natural stone. See pics.

As for the cover, all brands are about the same quality and IMHO the builder has WAY MORE to do with the success of your cover than the manufacturer. The biggest driver in cover price, aside from square footage of fabric, is the lid combo. We only use the new Zero Reveal lid from Coverstar. It's the only lid that looks complete, again IMHO, but it's about $2000 more than the standard two piece aluminum lid. I think GBread ^^^ is talking about the exposed area of the bond beam (top of fiberglass) that the cover rides on. We are about to start tiling that area 100% of the time, mainly because the concrete breaks down rather quickly and it's just kind of ugly. I would ask your PB to do that if you go with a cover. Side note, Latham has made some changes to the leadership of the fiberglass division and the tiles bond beam is likely going to be a warranty requirement.

Thanks CPS reno. Your pool looks beautiful!

What makes natural stone coping different than regular? Is it just thinner? What type of pool coping did you get? Did you specifically get the stone color to match your coping?

For the zero reveal lid, do you have a photo of it ? I tried searching but couldn't find any. The closest I can found is the walk-on lid like this where you put a coping stone on

 

[johnkim2020]

Now that it's daytime, I can add a photo. See the nice smooth rounded tiles. Before I renovated the pool a couple years ago, the tile there had more of a square edge, and my cover was always developing pinholes where it dragged over the tile. Now it doesn't.
View attachment 163210

Thanks Rocket J Squirrel. Your pool looks very nice. In essence, we can still add some coping to top of the spa area as long as it is a thin layer and not as thick as the pool edge coping?

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

In essence, we can still add some coping to top of the spa area as long as it is a thin layer and not as thick as the pool edge coping?

I think smoothness is more important than thinness.

 

[gingrbredman]

I think GBread ^^^ is talking about the exposed area of the bond beam (top of fiberglass) that the cover rides on. We are about to start tiling that area 100% of the time, mainly because the concrete breaks down rather quickly and it's just kind of ugly. I would ask your PB to do that if you go with a cover. Side note, Latham has made some changes to the leadership of the fiberglass division and the tiles bond beam is likely going to be a warranty requirement.

Thank you for clarifying that, you said it better than I did. When I saw my own PBs installed pool, it just looked "unfinished" by the rolled up part of the cover. Their solution is exactly as you described as well. They are going to get some tiles that Latham actually recommends as a "match" to my Ocean Blue G3 color, and tile that section. I do not have waterline tiles on my FB pool, but with a little tile there should finish the whole thing.

And my PB also mentioned the same warranty issue, you just said it a little better than I did, again. Latham will not warranty the shell for life if we went with a APC cover, which is why we needed to go with the Coverstar. And since this is all "connected" to the shell, the tiles they recommend will be a good way to finish off the pool, protect everything, and keep the warranty.

 

[gingrbredman]

Thanks. Did you go with a separate guy that installed your pool cover or it was your pool builder that did it?

My pool guy told me to budget $18k cad before tax so about $14k USD which sounds inline with what you paid.

My PB will be the one installing the cover. I don't actually have it on yet, I don't even have the hole dug, but that should all begin tomorrow.

I would confirm with the PB which mechanism and lid you would get with that price, but yeah, that seems to be in line with not only what I am paying, but prices I have seen around this forum. There is not a ton of information around here on these, a lot of the "builds" are southern areas of the country where extending the swimming season may not be as important as for some of us up north.

 

[Ourad]

20 lights!? How big is your pool?

 

[Dirk]

Pool equipment calculator formula (also found in the chipset used for boat fittings calculator):
Average (Cost of non-marine equivalent part) x 2 = Cost of downpayment for pool part installation by pool professional

Pool equipment is very expensive, but at least it doesn't last very long!

Lights seem to be among the worst of the bunch. I wish I was only half-joking.

I'm also very curious about what you're planning with 20 lights... Maybe someone here can offer you a more cost-effective solution that would give you the same effect.

 

[guinness]

I worked with a reputable Chinese pool supplier that supplied me with fountain light but they also make pool light.

Are those lights Underwriters Laboratories (UL) listed? I'm sure the certification process adds to the cost of approved pool lights.

https://china.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/09/Low-Voltage-LED-for-Pool-and-Spas.pdf

 

[Homebrewale]

I'm not sure my light works. I have not tried to turn it on for four years.

 

[CPS Reno]

What makes natural stone coping different than regular? Is it just thinner? What type of pool coping did you get? Did you specifically get the stone color to match your coping?

Yes, the stone is between 3/4"-1" thick.

For the zero reveal lid, do you have a photo of it ? I tried searching but couldn't find any. The closest I can found is the walk-on lid like this where you put a coping stone on

The zero reveal just came out a month or two ago. Here's a picture of one waiting for decking. You'll have to imagine where the deck goes since it's not complete, but you can see the vertical lip right next to the actual lid and that's where the decking lines up.

 

[CPS Reno]

GBreadMan, not to sidetrack the thread, but the color you selected is absolutely awesome! If I built myself a new pool, it would be Ocean Blue G3. Not that you need anything else to get you excited, but here's one we did this year. No photoshop, no professional photographer, just me on my Google phone taking pics!

 

[gingrbredman]

Randy, thanks for those pictures! That does look awesome, didn't think I could be more excited, but I was wrong! I liked the G2 Ocean Blue, and have seen a few recently that are under construction, but never a picture with this detail of the G3 color. My wife "insisted" on the upgrade, and now I'm glad she did.

It has been difficult to find a few things for me since I've been searching for pool information. It's not gunite pool builds, its not information on the best testing and keeping your water clear, It is fiberglass pool colors and auto cover information.

I do spend a lot of time looking at the new construction threads, and there is a lot of awesome builds, the majority of them concrete pools in warm weather climates. These builds can be an inspiration for me to see what a cool backyard can look like with a pool (For at least a couple months out of the year), as well as learn a lot of best practices, and see what problems can be avoided. But then I see some threads about FB pools and auto covers, I get a little excited haha!

Thanks for all the insight you have on the Coverstar. I hope it helped the OP, it sure did for me. Probably late for me to look into the zero reveal, but hopefully others will see this as well.