Any cases where a Latham vinyl liner is permanently stained?

[dfphoto]

Hello group, I am trying to help my friend out and we're stuck... after 3 years of planning my friend had her indoor pool repaired with a new vinyl liner, repaired return line and cement work around the top of the pool.
The vinyl liner install company and another pool company told her they would not service the pool due to Covid increases in business.

Within 1 month started having stain issues, and even on the install day noticed the vinyl liner sections had a variation in the print/color. In the 20 years she has had this indoor pool she never had issues with chemistry and staining.

After trying various things we found a Ytube video about bioguard metal stain remover and tried their 3 part system which worked but upon using sparkle up the pool got cloudy.

2 months later still have problems after 3 more pool companies came to take a look and we replaced the sand in her filter 2x..

The newest pool company uses a brand called phoenix chemicals and that system did not work neither did the vitamin c test, and the chlorine test... We have the pool water tested every 3-5 days plus we have the taylor drop tests and the basic dip sticks.

We dropped the water down 5-6" and the yellow stain keeps going down the sides and this liner is 6 months old but we have a falling out with the installer.

So with all this said, has anyone heard or seen a new vinyl liner be permanently stained with no resolution.
Thanks so much.... David

ps. the basics are 5' deep indoor pool 39x13' vinyl liner gets some direct sun but only 1/4 of the pool.. New England location well water but the last month of tests show virtually no iron or copper at .001 and .02
We did have some sliminess and foam but that's been resolved... One person uses this pool and one day we had 4 people use it..

 

[kimkats]

Look at all of the bottles of stuff put in the pool. Which one has copper listed on it? Have the fill water tested for copper as well.

We have the pool water tested every 3-5 days plus we have the taylor drop tests and the basic dip sticks.

Which Taylor drop test kit do you have? Don't even bother using the guess sticks. The only place they have any use is to fill up a trash can.

even on the install day noticed the vinyl liner sections had a variation in the print/color. I

Talk to me more about this. Do you have pics showing this? Was this before of after water was added?

 

[dfphoto]

Hi sorry about the delay, we don't have pics of the vinyl right when it was installed but we did point it out to the installers at the time of install and again during the fill. We have never seen copper above .02 in any of the tests.. Problem is, we have a falling out with the installers' company so it's not like they are helping us.

 

[dfphoto]

Apologies on the taylor kit it does not test for metal, we do have another test kit that does test for metal I believe. I will check tomorrow, we have had the water tested at the state drinking water facility as well as leslie's and the various pool companies who have come out. The original installer has tested the water a few times. Even if companies want to help us they are so slammed they can't. That's why I'm on here asking for help. Forgot to mention, our stain is not as dark as I regularly see on this site, it is much lighter than most youtube videos etc.

I can clearly see there is a difference it's not lighting, a reflection or an optical illusion same with the variation. On the vinyl install each section is about 10' wide and the width of the pool so about 23'x10 we have about 5 pieces we have a 3' deep section about 5' wide then a slope down then 5' deep to the end it's every other section. I'll try to take pictures..

 

[JamesW]

After trying various things we found a Ytube video about bioguard metal stain remover and tried their 3 part system which worked but upon using sparkle up the pool got cloudy.

What exact product worked?

It's probably iron, try vitamin C again.

Did you fill with well water or city water or did you have water trucked in?

If the filter is a cartridge filter, can you show pictures of the cartridge before cleaning?

Pictures of the liner would help a lot.

If they have white fiberglass steps, a picture of the steps would also be helpful.

 

[dfphoto]

Apologies it was 4 Bio Guard products used in order: Erase stain, pool magnet plus, sparkle up, and klean it. Wanted to clear up a few things: On the water testing we use Leslie's one store to keep the consistency. We test with them once a week or twice a week, we use the the taylor kit at home to verify or to see what we have after using whatever product is advised to us by the various pool companies. We have the various pool companies test the water as well and after the 2nd time the yellow returned we tested the water at the state water facility, also not sure if I mentioned this, the pool was original to the house it was a custom home the pool had a problem 3-4 years ago and it took this much time to resolve everything with other house issues taking precedent. The Hayward filter is about 10 years old deemed to be in good working order. This being an indoor pool with one user is the reason we did not swap this out plus it had never given the owner issues before and never had they had this type of staining in the previous 20 years of ownership.

Another apology my friend said three times we had iron at .3 lately even after filling the water 6-7" the iron is .01 maybe the carbon filter is helping?

The water question: We hired a pool water company originally the rest is a hose from our well pump going through a carbon filter. As of now we have probably refilled the water about 1-2 ' from the original pool water.

On the filter question: She has a Hayward 244 Sand filter on this unit we originally thought maybe the sand was the cause so we removed it checked the arms and replaced with zeolite which was a nightmare and after 3 weeks we had to replace again with organic sand.

On the question about the steps they are not yellow I saw some yellow but it came off easily with or without chemicals just a rag.. as per picture

 

[dfphoto]

one more pic on the step pic I literally spent 10 sec with my finger wiping what does look like rust off but not sure it is rust anyway this is the weirdest problem and 4 pool companies have been out here looking at it none have answers

 

[JamesW]

Probably iron.

Try some different vitamin C on a spot.

Iron tests are highly unreliable, and if the iron is all in the form of stain, there won't be much iron left in the water.

All water has iron; it is almost impossible to avoid.

 

[dfphoto]

BTW I wanted to say thank you to all who have replied... I know everyone is busy and all that.

 

[dfphoto]

we have repeatedly tried vitamin c to see and we paid over 200 for the phoenix metal remover by the pool company... yet the stain is there

 

[dfphoto]

ON the pictures I uploaded the #97-98 and screen shot the last pic show the variation in the vinyl colors of the pieces I mentioned.
#99 shows the bottom of the pool curve where it looks like yellow on the seam
#2001-2 show the step with what does look like rust but I was able to remove with water and my finger completely removed with a rag
#2004 shows the steps in the water no yellowing that I can really see
sample #3 and (#2003 yellow with normal water line) on the next upload shows the 5" water removal about 4 days ago after the Phoenix metal removal by the pool company it looked like it was a floc type of product with metal remover there was a lot of particles on the ground and very hard to vacuum out

 

[JamesW]

After trying various things we found a Ytube video about bioguard metal stain remover and tried their 3 part system which worked

In my opinion, it is probably iron.

Typically ascorbic acid will work.

Crush up some vitamin C tabs and dissolve them in a little bit of water to make a strong vitamin C solution and then use a soft cloth to see if the stains will wipe off with the solution.

Also, try some distilled white vinegar on a test spot to see if the vinegar will clean the stain .

 

[borjis]

My liner has iron stains. They look identical to yours. James has good advice, try it again with crushed vitamin c tablets.

 

[dfphoto]

we have tried asorbic acid...

 

[JamesW]

bioguard metal stain remover and tried their 3 part system which worked

Which chemical worked?

Not the product name, the actual chemical?

 

[JamesW]

we have tried asorbic acid...

Can you describe how you did the ascorbic acid test?

 

[JamesW]

If ascorbic acid does not work, the only other thing that I can think of is sulfamic acid.

STAIN SOLUTION #2 – The Copper & Scale Stuff | Jacks Magic

jacksmagic.com

https://jacksmagic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/JM-Stain-Solution-2-Treatment-Procedures.pdf

If that does not work, I don't have any idea what would work.

Note that sulfamic acid locks up the chlorine for months as CC.

 

[JamesW]

Can you show pictures of all white plastic in the pool including skimmers, weirs, baskets, steps etc?

 

[dfphoto]

on the asorbic acid we applied directly by hand to the stain the white plastic parts which are all new are still white not yellow I took an LED light we bought that attaches to one of the returns and is under water is still white. The stain is only on the vinyl hence my post title... I will have to back wash to lower the water to get to the stain again we raised it up after the last vacuum after the Phoenix metal stain remover the pool company added and guaranteed would work which it didn't... I will get back to you tomorrow again thank you for the help!! This time on the vitamin c test I have 5 tablets in the pool skimmer sock filter (new idea) and will see.

BTW her pool is a bromide pool not chlorine but we did rub a chlorine tablet on the stain to see if it was organic as we did have a cloudy pool for a month after the sparkle up fiasco then we had foam and slimy walls so that was organic for sure.... you go through these weird setups low PH high PH low bromine high bromine for the various issues but the main issue has always been the stain and believe me I was 100% always on the iron since we know wells have it but myself being a newbie and not the owner what do I know....