Another SWG-curious pool owner...questions about brands, automation integration, etc

[gkw4815]

Yet another pool owner frustrated by the skyrocketing cost of liquid chlorine and interested in reducing time spent lugging and dispensing LC. I won't ask "is a SWG worth it" because the consensus on this forum is obvious - rather, I have a few questions about specific SWG systems and integration with automation.

1) Any experience with the Calimar SWG systems? I'm eying the CMARSHA60-3Y (60k gallon) unit, which seems to be out of stock everywhere unfortunately. Should I wait for it to come back in stock (a couple of online retailers say anywhere from ~a week to a couple of months for this to happen), downsize to a ~40k gallon cell, or look at other brands/units? Are there any similarly-priced options available in a 60k gallon cell (most I've seen are much more $)? FWIW, I have a Calimar VS pump and am very pleased with the build quality and value, so I figured I'd start with this brand.

2) I have Jandy iAqualink automation but am not considering a Jandy SWG due to their anti-DIY business model. If I understand correctly, the SWG system should be powered off completely whenever the pump isn't running and/or when the pool/spa is in spa mode? If this is the case, I believe I can accomplish this by running 120v power to salt system through two Jandy relays in series:

• "Filter pump" relay that currently controls the middle speed of my VS pump - whenever this relay is open, the pump isn't running.
• "Spare relay" configured via the DIP switches to switch on whenever the pool/spa is in "pool mode", and off whenever the pool/spa is in "spa mode".

Has anyone configured their SWG similarly? Any pitfalls to watch out for?

3) Once the salt system is "dialed in", how frequently should I expect to need to operate the salt cell controls? I want to consider this when comparing accessibility between different control panel mounting locations.

4) In general, how does acid demand with a SWG compare with acid demand for a pool maintained by liquid chlorine? I use very little acid when running my pool on tablets, and "moderate" volumes of acid when running my pool exclusively on LC. Should I expect acid needs to increase substantially when switching from LC to a SWG?

TIA!

 

[mknauss]

Your issue with a non Jandy SWCG with your Jandy automation is the SWCG will not lower output when in Spa Mode. You want the SWCG adding chlorine when in Spa Mode, but not at full amount.

 

[gkw4815]

Your issue with a non Jandy SWCG with your Jandy automation is the SWCG will not lower output when in Spa Mode. You want the SWCG adding chlorine when in Spa Mode, but not at full amount.

Would that only be an issue if I used my spa for extended periods? I rarely use it for more than a couple hours at a time, and when my pool is in "pool mode", water flows into both the pool and the spa, and spills over into the pool (ie I don't have a separate "spillover mode" in place).

 

[dfwnoob]

.. but am not considering a Jandy SWG due to their anti-DIY business model.

You and me both, man. But unfortunately there's no way to make it work properly that I can find. Like @mknauss says, it's supposed to be turned down in spa mode. I guess you could hook up any SWG and just manually go over and turn it off before you turn the spa on. Then when you're done, turn the SWG on and go back to pool mode. I considered something like that too, but I wanted something where anyone could just go over press "Spa" on the controller and have everything just work the way you expect it to. The only way I can figure out how to do that is to suck it up and buy Jandy stuff. It's why I'm going with an ePump as well, I just want it to work correctly and easily off the automation.

My other serious consideration was throwing away all of the Jandy automation and going Pentair, but that's a bit steep of an investment given other things I need to do around the house this year.

 

[ajw22]

Would that only be an issue if I used my spa for extended periods? I rarely use it for more than a couple hours at a time, and when my pool is in "pool mode", water flows into both the pool and the spa, and spills over into the pool

Let's assume once you get your SWG you maintain CYA at 60 and your FC at 5.

Your SLAM FC level would be 24 and your spa would be safe to enjoy up to a FC level of 24.

So your SWG can generate up to 20ppm of FC while using your spa before it becomes a problem.

Let's assume you get a 40K SWG cell that has a 1.4lb/day chlorine capacity. If you run that cell at 70% in your 25K pool for 16 hours your pool will get 3.1 ppm of FC.

Assuming your spa is 500 gallons letting that same cell run at 70% for 2 hours will give you 20ppm of FC.

If you ran your pump for 24 hours/day your FC output could vary from 2.7ppm at 40% to 4ppm at 60%. At 50% you would have about 3 hours before your spa gets over 24ppm.

So that is why you cannot let your SWG generate at pool setting for long into a spa. You have maybe 2 hours before the spa will get over chlorinated.

(ie I don't have a separate "spillover mode" in place).

You know you can enable SPILLOVER mode on your Aqualink with dipswitch #3 as long as you can freeup AUX3?

Jandy Aqualink RS - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[mknauss]

Allen gave a good synopsis. On the flip side, lets say you do NOT have the SWCG adding chlorine in Spa mode, it will take a fairly short amount of time for several adults and or children to drop the FC in the spa to very low levels. That is really only an issue for pathogen transmission. If you are willing to take that chance, it is your pool.

Your other questions.
3 - In your climate you will need to adjust the FC output several times in the spring early summer and again in the late summer fall.
4 - The acid demand will be similar to what you see using LC. You will want to hold the TA lower and let the pH sit in the upper 7's. If your fill water is high in TA that will drive the acid demand.

 

[gkw4815]

Thank you ajw22 and mknauss - I understood the concern about over-chlorinating the spa, and more generally - I want my system to be "foolproof" so that my wife or kids can ask Alexa to heat the spa and not need to worry about manually adjusting SWG output or switching it on/off.

I'm still trying to wrap my ahead around the spa under-chlorination danger, especially in relation to how I currently operate the pool (chlorine mostly added via LC, but there is a chlorine tablet feeder which is present only in the "pool returns" plumbing side - used occasionally, mainly when I'm out of town).

Given that I currently don't have a separate spillover mode (when in pool mode, water flows into both my pool and spa, and then spills over into the pool - ie the spa is never sitting stagnant anytime the pump is running), is having the SWG switch off altogether in spa mode that different from how I use the spa currently?

And assuming that this is an adequate way to operate the pool, will routing SWG power through two relays in series be appropriate?
-Routing through Filter Pump relay - ensure that SWG switches off anytime pump isn't running
-Routing through Spare Relay that is "on" only in Pool Mode - ensure that SWG switches off in Spa Mode

(As an aside - is there any real downside to not having a spillover mode that can be switched on/off, other than perhaps a bit of extra continuous aeration that might contribute to ph rise? This is one element of my pool setup that I never messed with - it was never configured with a spillover mode to begin with. In any case, my Aux3 relay is currently in use, although I could free up a slot by combining my pool and spa lights onto one circuit if there was a lot of value in having a spillover mode.)

 

[mknauss]

Your pool volume is 25000 gallons. The spa, maybe 500 gallons? Three people in the pool, even if they pee, is not an issue, When in the spa, in spa mode recirculating that 500 gallons, is an issue.

 

[ajw22]

Given that I currently don't have a separate spillover mode (when in pool mode, water flows into both my pool and spa, and then spills over into the pool - ie the spa is never sitting stagnant anytime the pump is running), is having the SWG switch off altogether in spa mode that different from how I use the spa currently?

No, your spa will be as sanitary or unsantiary as it is now.

And assuming that this is an adequate way to operate the pool, will routing SWG power through two relays in series be appropriate?
-Routing through Filter Pump relay - ensure that SWG switches off anytime pump isn't running
-Routing through Spare Relay that is "on" only in Pool Mode - ensure that SWG switches off in Spa Mode

That will work fine.

(As an aside - is there any real downside to not having a spillover mode that can be switched on/off, other than perhaps a bit of extra continuous aeration that might contribute to ph rise? This is one element of my pool setup that I never messed with - it was never configured with a spillover mode to begin with. In any case, my Aux3 relay is currently in use, although I could free up a slot by combining my pool and spa lights onto one circuit if there was a lot of value in having a spillover mode.)

The downsides are in ph rise and maintenance of your spillover.There are many different ways of building a spillover and we don't know what you got. If you start seeing erosion from the constant spillover, or scale forming on the spillover, then you may want to rethink the way you run it.

 

[laprjns]

1) Any experience with the Calimar SWG systems? I'm eying the CMARSHA60-3Y (60k gallon) unit, which seems to be out of stock everywhere unfortunately. Should I wait for it to come back in stock (a couple of online retailers say anywhere from ~a week to a couple of months for this to happen), downsize to a ~40k gallon cell, or look at other brands/units? Are there any similarly-priced options available in a 60k gallon cell (most I've seen are much more $)? FWIW, I have a Calimar VS pump and am very pleased with the build quality and value, so I figured I'd start with this brand.

You can find the same system with different branding from various suppliers. Circupool offers the Universal series and InyoPools has the Purline series. Since the pandemic, the availability of these systems has been erratic.

CircuPool Universal55 Saltwater Chlorinator for any salt water pool with Hayward Goldline Aqua Rite, Swimpure Plus, Blue Essence, and more

www.circupool.com

Pureline Pool Salt System 60,000 Gallons, Chlorine Generator, Control Panel & Salt Cell - Model PL7703 - INYOPools.com

Pool Salt System Up To 60,000 Gallons

www.inyopools.com

I purchased the Purline 60K system back in 2019 at almost half the current price ($700) and am very happy with it.
There has been some discussion on this forum regarding the advertised chlorine output of these private-label systems and whether they are achievable or not. From my testing and observation of my Purline system, it does perform to the advertised chlorine output level (~3.18 lbs per day).

 

[gkw4815]

The downsides are in ph rise and maintenance of your spillover.There are many different ways of building a spillover and we don't know what you got. If you start seeing erosion from the constant spillover, or scale forming on the spillover, then you may want to rethink the way you run it.

Thank you. My spillover is pretty small, ~1 ft wide and a ~2" drop from the spa into the pool. Pool was built in 1996 and no signs of undue wear/scale so far. I guess spillover mode is more necessary with larger spillovers and/or elevated spas?

Thanks laprjns for sharing your experience with these salt systems - you got a heck of a deal at $700. The Calimar 60k looks to run about ~$800+shipping when it's in stock, several hundred less than Pureline. I'll keep an eye out for it to come back in stock.

 

[Mdragger88]

I too have been eyeing the less expensive 60k gal systems from different brands for some time so I made a comparison chart.

Note that the only Calimar output #’s I had to work with are actually from some older models. I have been unsuccessful in my communication attempts with Calimar directly (which is concerning) & talking with the retailers who carry their products to get actual current chlorine output #s has been fruitless.
Working with the #’s I do have, their 60k is not equivalent to other 60k units. Thus the price difference compared to other 60k units.
Also, the currently available pureline unit’s warranties have changed to 1yr (it was 2yrs previously) inyo pools confirmed this with me.
This may or may not make them as great of a value when compared to circupool or others.

 

[gkw4815]

This is great, Mdragger, thanks for sharing!

So which one are you going with? Between the availability challenges and output rate skulduggery, I'm inclined to rule out Calimar.

Looks like the frontrunners would be the Circupool UL55 (currently $1264 at DiscountSaltPools, includes longer warranty and rated cell life) or the Pureline PL7703 (currently $1100 at Inyopools, includes shorter warranty and cell life but slightly higher output rate).

 

[Mdragger88]

This is great, Mdragger, thanks for sharing!

So which one are you going with? Between the availability challenges and output rate skulduggery, I'm inclined to rule out Calimar.

Looks like the frontrunners would be the Circupool UL55 (currently $1264 at DiscountSaltPools, includes longer warranty and rated cell life) or the Pureline PL7703 (currently $1100 at Inyopools, includes shorter warranty and cell life but slightly higher output rate).

I haven’t decided! I am wishy washy I can’t seem to let go of that $$$.
I may kick the decision can down the road a little farther if my puny over the wall swg fires up upon opening. When I first got my pool I intended to buy the circupool ul40 because there was no 60, it hadn’t been born yet, but I bought a car instead.
I just kept using the intex units I already had until they died one by one. I lucked up & got the thing I have now for free so I have just been riding it out. I’m what you would call “frugal” & the swg hasn’t been landing at the top of the needs list. If my little wall hanger dies I will have no choice but to pull the trigger. I’m leaning heavily towards the circupool mainly because of the support here & with them directly. The fact that I can’t seem to get ahold of Calimar at all makes me uneasy & so does the Pureline warranty change although inyo pools is quite responsive.

 

[gkw4815]

A sincere thank-you to the TFP community for all of the advice shared on this thread!

I just pulled the trigger on the 60k gallon Pureline PL7703. Wish me luck for a smooth installation!

Between the new SWG, new VS pump installed late last year, and me finally getting my existing Polaris working correctly - this summer pool season is looking trouble-free!

 

[gkw4815]

Next question...which of these installation options would be preferred? The Pureline manual is a bit ambiguous on the following points:
-Is it better for flow switch to be upstream or downstream of SWG (or does it even matter)?
-If the flow switch or SWG needs to be in a vertical orientation (as opposed to a horizontal orientation), would it be better for the flow switch to vertical, or the SWG?

I'm 90% sure that the flow in the existing loop is "clockwise", but will confirm during installation.

If it matters - I have a VS pump that I'd like to be able to run at a low speed as much as possible.

 

[ajw22]

-Is it better for flow switch to be upstream or downstream of SWG (or does it even matter)?

Does not matter as long as flow switch is in the same flow path as the cell.

-If the flow switch or SWG needs to be in a vertical orientation (as opposed to a horizontal orientation), would it be better for the flow switch to vertical, or the SWG?

If flow switch is in vertical flow it must have the flow up into it. Never a down flow through the flow switch.

When the cell is mounted vertically it will keep the plates submerged at low pump speeds.

If the cell is mounted horizontally the hump should be down to keep the plates submerged at low pump speeds.

 

[gkw4815]

Thanks ajw22 - so I guess Option 3 is a no-go but any other options should work, space permitting.

 

[gkw4815]

She's up and running!

Plumbing was a doddle...the salt cell fit perfectly in the plumbing loop. Was able to position the flow switch with ~14" straight piping run before, ~8" after, on an upward-flowing section of pipe. Flow switch kicked on at my current VS pump low speed (1300 rpm) even before I completed a long-overdue filter cleaning.

Electrical was slightly trickier and required me to reconfigure the relays that control my non-Jandy VS pump, but in the end everything is working as intended (SWG only has power when pump is running and pool is NOT in spa mode). I've attached a wiring diagram in case any other AquaLink owners are interested in controlling a non-Jandy VS pump and SWG.

No complaints about the quality of the Pureline equipment, everything seems well-made (although documentation could be better). I'm reading 3 ppm FC with the SWG at ~10%.

Two questions:
-First time running my spa since adding salt, I'm seeing lots of foam as soon as I turn on the air blower. Is this typical for salt pools, or is this indicative of a water chemistry issue?
-My water is well-balanced except CYA is on the low side (30-40). I still have a stash of triclor tablets. Should I install the dummy cell and run these through the tablet feeder for a few weeks? Or better off to purchase liquid or powder/granular CYA and just save the tablets for the winter?

 

[Jimrahbe]

gkw,

Not sure why you have the foam, but it has nothing to do with the saltwater..

Thanks,

Jim R.