Am I just stupid? Troubles with all chems

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R

rickv

0
Dec 1, 2017
29
western australia
Another not-so-proud owner of a green pool the other day. With the pool shop overcharging tremendously on pool chemicals, I wanted to take matters in my own hand. I got a drop test kit for cya, chlorine, calcium,salt, ph and alkalinity.

I tested the CYA to be below 30. My kit couldn't give me a lower value than that. So I chucked in liquid chlorine. Made sure it was above 12 (went oops to twenty once...oops). Eventually it settled at 12ppm and then I had less than 1ppm loss overnight, between 0 and 0.5 CC and a clean pool, so the SLAMming was complete.

Now I needed to make sure all the other chemicals were balanced. PH was low (while it is usually high during slamming), so I simply read "33k water pool needs x much gram of ph increaser to get 0.2 higher", I chucked it in 3 times over the course of 2 days and it remained the same. Something seemed to be eating my PH. I also (a few hours after adding the PH increaser) added stabilizer. The bag clearly said "30k - 40k pool, raise it with 50ppm, add 1.5kg stabilizer". So that's what I did. And now what? CYA reads over 100...

Am I just an idiot or what is going on here?! I do exactly as told on the bags (they are new chemicals), but they do not have the effect they should have.

I have a 33k liter pool, SWG, the pool is heated up to 30 degrees celcius (86F) and I live in the dry place of Western Australia.
 
Hi! Welcome to the forum. Don't worry, we'll get your pool back in shape and you'll learn so much along the way you'll be good to go for a lifetime.

Some thoughts:
1. What model test kit are you using? Is it a FAS-DPD type for measuring chlorine? We usually only recommend the TF-100 or Taylor K2006

2. Low total alkalinity is usually the cause of pH dropping quickly. You didn't mention a TA reading in your post.

3. CYA is a difficult test to do anytime. One major thing to learn quickly is to stop trusting pool guys and stop trusting directions on the back of the bag. Use pool math. Not sure why CYA would increase so much. Also readings of CYA at 100 could actually be well over 100. We'll have to sort that out.

Also please fill out your signature with your pool info to make it easier for us to quickly understand what you're working with.
 
Welcome to tfp! Your not a idiot you are just reading pool store labels and getting pool store label results.

Use the pool math link above for calculations for adding chemicals, and add less then required except clorine in case something is off such as pool gallons, yes it does happen, then retest later and top up. Clorine will burn off if too much so it's okay to add full amount.

Take a look at pool school especially recommend chemicals, and read and do the diluted cya test. Look at read before posting and add your pool info to your signature so we can help, and especially what test kit are you using.

Fixing the pool will involve using diluted cya test, partial drain and refill to drop cya to either 30 if pool is green, or 60-70 if pool is clear.

Relax your at the right place and with the proper test kit we can help you.
 
Welcome to the Forum!

Your first move is to get a proper test kit as others have stated. Clear Choice Labs is your source in Australia.

Once you have the kit post up your results and the forum will provide guidance to get your pool water chemistry straightened out.

Also as stated, use PoolMath for chemical addition determination.

Take care.
 
Post all the results from your test kit:

FC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Salinity

When we get all the results we will be able to guide you on what is required to balance the water.

Which brand of kit do you have now? It looks like you successfully SLAMMED so the kit should be decent from what I've read so far with your high chlorine readings.
 
Hello rickv and welcome to TFP! using PoolMath to calculate your chemical needs will help out a lot. Make sure you pay attention to the UNITS of measure. You can switch to METRIC units on the brown line at the top of the table. Don't use a comma nor period when entering pool volume. You do need to use the "." for decimal values elsewhere.

Please take a moment to Edit Your Signature . It will make it easier for us help you and not have to repeat questions about what you are working with. There are a number of examples in this thread already.

What is the age of your pool?

after you post some complete test results, we can offer more suggestions.
 
Good catch, PoolGate~ That might be the problem.

At the very top right hand side of PoolMath one can choose "US" or "Metric" or "Imperial" for the desired measurement. Make sure you're selecting metric.

Maddie :flower:
 
Thanks for the replies guys. Yes it was 33000 LITER not gallons. I recalculated the area and it is more likely 30000 LITER (7900 gallon). It's a kidney shape so not a walk in the park to calculate the right amount.


I have been draining water yesterday and refilling the pool quite a bit to lower the CYA.

Here are my measurements for today;
PH: 7.2
FC: 4.5
CC: 0.5
Alkalinity: 250ppm
calcium: 275ppm
Salt: 3600ppm
CYA: 90ppm - 120ppm

As I am from Australia, the Taylor kit isn't widely available. I have my chems from clear choice labs as someone mentioned before. Why the CYA between 90 and 120? I have received reagents from two different batches and there is a big difference in findings. Clear choice labs is quite helpful resolving this.

I don't know the age of the pool, but I reckon it's at least 20 years old (maybe 30?) as I am pretty certain it was placed when the house was build. The surface needs some work (is that possible with fibreglass?). I took the light out as it was filled with algae. There is also a hole in the step, not sure what should be there (about 3 - 4 inches diameter and 5 - 6 inches deep). A lot of dirt gets trapped into that hole. I have no idea what it is for (it is a man made hole as it is perfectly round).

So I combined pool math + chlorine/cya chart. The plan of action (Plan A) I have in mind:
- I need to drain more water to bring CYA to 80ppm (and check the test kit). Then I'll raise my FC to 6-7 by adding liquid chlorine. (I have to read the label which kind of chlorine it is to know how much I'll need)
- Not sure how to bring TA down. My PH is currently 7.2 ? What does you "aerate" to increase ph mean? In the "PH" section. Poolmath says to add roughly 900g of soda ash. That will increase PH from 7.2 to 7.5. Do I have to do that first and then reduce it again with acid to get lower the TA? And then I can add soda ash again to raise it to 7.5?
- I add 12kg of salt to bring salt to 4000ppm

After reading this thread: High TA they said there is no rush with the high TA. In that case the plan of action (plan B) would be:
- Drain water + refill to get to CYA 80ppm.
- Add PH increaser to bring it to 7.5.
- Add liquid chlorine to get 7FC
- Add 12k salt

Does Plan A or B sound like a good plan?

Is it safe to swim in the meantime?
 

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You need a real real good reading on cya. The cya/fc chart is number 1 for pool mantaince and is what keeps your pool trouble free. If it's really hot and sunny you want to shoot for a 50-60 cya, if not shoot for a 30-40.

Check out recommend chems in pool school so you know exactly what your adding. If you need to raise pH but not the ta then you expose the water to air, like a sprinkler does, or wait for it to rise by itself. Then you hit the water with muratic acid, which is hydrocloric acid, to lower the ta and pH. At 7.2 pH is fine, let it rise by itself, just make sure it's not dropping below that. My fill water ta is much higher than yours so my pH shoots to 7.8 every day and I keep hitting it with acid.

Pool is safe to swim when:

Pool is clear, you can see the bottom if cloudy
Fc is above minium, below shock level for your cya
Might be one more I can't remember.
 
To aerate the water you can also turn the returns up so they roll the water good. My cats hate when I does this but it works great and is cheap to do.

The kids could also do LOTS of cannon balls and splashing! LOL

Kim:kim:
 
I think we need to discuss the relationship between TA and pH a bit more here.

Let's just gather a bit more info to start. Is your pool still green? Also in your original post you indicated that something was 'eating your pH' which I assume means that you feel your pH is constantly dropping. That is very surprising given that your TA is at 250ppm. So, is your pH currently pretty constant, rising, or decreasing at your current TA of 250ppm?

On your Plan A vs Plan B; in both you suggest trying to drop TA by using muriatic acid, this is the correct thing to do. This addition lowers TA AND pH, in order to bring pH back up you use aeration which you seem to be a little unsure about and instead you suggest using pH increaser or soda ash, this is a bad idea as both of the things increase both pH and TA. We'll need to learn a little more about your set up and then we'll help with getting some aeration going.
 
rickv said:
- Not sure how to bring TA down. My PH is currently 7.2 ? What does you "aerate" to increase ph mean? In the "PH" section. Poolmath says to add roughly 900g of soda ash. That will increase PH from 7.2 to 7.5. Do I have to do that first and then reduce it again with acid to get lower the TA? And then I can add soda ash again to raise it to 7.5?

After reading this thread: High TA they said there is no rush with the high TA. In that case the plan of action (plan B) would be:
- Drain water + refill to get to CYA 80ppm.
- Add PH increaser to bring it to 7.5.
- Add liquid chlorine to get 7FC
- Add 12k salt
Click to expand...

When you want to lower TA, you do not add any chemicals to increase the pH first. The comment in PoolMath to add Soda Ash to raise pH is a bit misleading. PoolMath doesn't know that you are trying to lower TA. Adding Soda Ash will actually increase your TA while increasing pH and this isn't what you want.

The best way to increase the pH is through aeration. You use the return jets if they are movable or just let it creep up over time. Rain, sprinkler/fountain, swimming that agitates the water will also work. When the pH gets up to the high end of the range, you then use muratic acid to lower the pH. This addition of acid is what actually drops the TA.
 
Happy new year everyone!

It's been a month since it got fixed and a month later we are back to the drawing board. I didn't measure FC for two weeks and then when I read it, it was 0. So I did a CYA test, 90ppm. And added a lot of liquid chlorine to get the FC to above 31. But it got eaten alive. Overnight loss of far above 15ppm. So I drained a few times and refilled to reduce CYA. It's now around 60ppm.

Or so I thought. I also have a tube with 50ppm water. Originally I tested it at 40. And talking to the test sellers that was fine as long as I was consistent with it, I could just add 10ppm to my own reading and voila.

Today I tried doing a CYA reading of the 50ppm test water again and it reads around 100ppm. The last few days I have been adding chlorine in order to try to keep it over 31ppm just to be sure. But it drops to 0ppm is a heartbeat. The pool is covered with a sun blanket, in the shade half the day. I have been dropping the pool temperature from 90F to 80F.

Ugh I know I shouldn't be posting on the interwebs when I'm agitated, but I am one step from filling the pool with dirt at the moment. I don't know why, but this pool is a hassle. We had a pool in our rental and I didn't do anything with it (I didn't know back then) except through in 2 bags of salt twice a year and it was usually good. Friends of us throw in 1 bag of salt a year, never a problem. And I am struggling weekly to get this ---- pool fixed.


Readings (if they are reliable)
CYA: 60
FC: 0
CA: 0
ALK: 150
PH: untested

Just chucked in 10L of liquid chlorine, I will test again in 2 hours time to see what the values are. How fast after throwing in Liquid chlorine (with pump running) can you check for FC?

We don't have the Taylor test kit in Australia. I buy my stuff from clearchoicelabs who have been very helpful (How to test for Cyanuric Acid (CYA) levels Clear Choice Labs ). But if I can't read the values properly, I cannot maintain the pool...

p.s. there is always debris in our pool. Simply because of all trees around us. Even if I clean it completely one day, there are leaves again next day. Obviously we clean it as well as possible, but not daily as we simply don't have the time. We do have a "creepy crawler", but that only does so much.

p.p.s. we also have a hole in the pool where you can insert a pool table. (like this: http://aquaaction.com.au/wp-content/uploads/slideshow-gallery/PL_Beverage_Table_01.jpg). I want to close it with a cap as there is always debris in it and it is a pain to get it out. Any idea what they are called and if those caps exist? I tried to Google, but I couldn't find anything.
 
You can test your FC after 30 minutes. To get ahead of the algae you should test and dose every 1-2 hours until you see the FC holding.
Do you have visible algae? What test kit are you using?
 
I use this test kit: Total Pool Water Testing Kit, Salt Water Clear Choice Labs
It is their own brand.

There is no visible algae and the reagents are less than 2 months old.

In regards to the CYA. I fill the tube with water then with the reagent, but the cap on and shake for 30 seconds. Then fill it up slowly while standing with my back to the sun until I can't see the logo any more. It is a very bright day with the sun quite high. If anything, my CYA reading should be lower than it actually is (as described in the explanation of the testing kit supplier and it makes sense).
 

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