Almost ready to pull the trigger!

[trophft]

Just wondering if anything stands out on this PB contract?
It's not the most detailed, but it is the most detailed one I've gotten back out of 3 PB quotes!
I know it doesn't show model numbers either (waiting for PB to send me those), but it's a start.
The only items of concern are the following:
Was thinking about asking PB to swap out the Nature 2 Fusion with a Nature 2 Soft SWG (and then NOT insert the mineral cartridge of course).
Any other problems you can see?

 

[ajw22]

Was thinking about asking PB to swap out the Nature 2 Fusion with a Nature 2 Soft SWG (and then NOT insert the mineral cartridge of course).
Any other problems you can see?

Definitely the Nature 2 Soft.

A pool and spa without automation is like buying a car today with roll down windows. If you get Jandy equipment then get the iAqualink.

A & A infloor cleaner adds cost and complexity and many folks find they still need a pool cleaner. Consider deleting it and getting a good robot cleaner.

gas, electric to pool - figure out cost

Coping, tile & decking figure out what you really want and real cost is

 

[trophft]

Allen Thanks! for a while i was the only thread with zero replies and i was beginning to think i'd done something wrong!
Yes I've read a lot on TFP about infloor cleaners but the PB insists that the floor jets are more efficient for heating pool and overall water circulation. He said he'd remove them if we want but it would only save about 1200 and I figure half that would go towards an aftermarket robot. Also we don't have any trees or shrubbery anywhere on our property or the adjacent properties so hopefully debris will be at a minimum.

 

[ajw22]

Yes I've read a lot on TFP about infloor cleaners but the PB insists that the floor jets are more efficient for heating pool and overall water circulation. He said he'd remove them if we want but it would only save about 1200 and I figure half that would go towards an aftermarket robot.

If for cleaning you are putting in a complex system. If for better heating and overall water circulation you can just put some returns in your pool floor without the IFCS valves and pop ups.

Waldorf Astoria Berlin floor return

• ajw22
• Jan 10, 2020

Floor returns in the pool at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in Berlin, Germany

I think you would never know the difference in heating or circulation if you were in a pool with standard returns or an IFCS .

Also we don't have any trees or shrubbery anywhere on our property or the adjacent properties so hopefully debris will be at a minimum.

You would be surprised at what the wind can blow ind.

 

[trophft]

If for cleaning you are putting in a complex system. If for better heating and overall water circulation you can just put some returns in your pool floor without the IFCS valves and pop ups.

Waldorf Astoria Berlin floor return

• ajw22
• Jan 10, 2020

Floor returns in the pool at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in Berlin, Germany

I think you would never know the difference in heating or circulation if you were in a pool with standard returns or an IFCS .



You would be surprised at what the wind can blow ind.

I get what you're saying about the IFCS, I'll ask him about just adding some standard floor returns and remove the IFCS.

 

[trophft]

and the coping, tile and decking and distance for gas and electric are all included, he measured and we've picked everything out so not sure why those are blank on contract...will check that as well!

 

[trophft]

I get what you're saying about the IFCS, I'll ask him about just adding some standard floor returns and remove the IFCS.

If i have PB remove IFCS, and we end up getting a robot what plumbing or feature do i need to ask the PB to add?

 

[JJ_Tex]

Just an electrical outlet for the robot.

One thing on your contract is for the final payment due at plaster. I hate giving the PB all the $ before the equipment is even turned on, the plaster is cured, etc. Ideally you have a few thousand $ that you pay a week or two after plaster so you have some leverage for issues.

 

[ajw22]

If i have PB remove IFCS, and we end up getting a robot what plumbing or feature do i need to ask the PB to add?

You just need a GFCI outlet near the pool to plug the robot into.

 

[trophft]

My PB has a Nature2 Fusion on the bid, but I said take it off and swap it out for the SWG model...he said it was $1600 more....
(and yes i know, the mineral cartridge is trash. I won't be using that at all!)

Just curious does anyone know the cost difference? Really $1600???

 

[ajw22]

Just an electrical outlet for the robot.

One thing on your contract is for the final payment due at plaster. I hate giving the PB all the $ before the equipment is even turned on, the plaster is cured, etc. Ideally you have a few thousand $ that you pay a week or two after plaster so you have some leverage for issues.

Yeah, I saw that and was meaning to mention it. You don’t want to be 100% paid after plaster. You have equipment to go in, startup the pool, see there are no leaks, everything level, everything cleaned up and looking the way you want. 10% paid once startup is complete and all equipment operational and 10% paid 15 days after completion of the project.

 

[Newdude]

Its been debated here that with the lifetime cost of the replacement cartridges and the large volume of installs, there are builders who give them away knowing they will get all those sales down the road. Printers are the same principle....Sold at a loss because the ink cartridges are so profitable. Or if its not the PB themselves, they could be getting steep kickbacks from the manufacturer for installing so many devices. So by removing something from the estimate that was either mostly free, or entirely free, you would still have to pay the full amount for the SWG

 

[trophft]

Agree on the last draw at plaster...i'll ask about a holdback until 100% complete. Any idea what the cost should be to switch from the Nature2 to the Nature2 SOFT SWG? he is saying it will be a $1600 upgrade and that it will not be a good mix with my brick coping (house brick)...???

 

[Jimrahbe]

T,

Let's see what @PoolGate has to say about using the Fusion soft system..

Jim R.

 

[trophft]

Its been debated here that with the lifetime cost of the replacement cartridges and the large volume of installs, there are builders who give them away knowing they will get all those sales down the road. Printers are the same principle....Sold at a loss because the ink cartridges are so profitable. Or if its not the PB themselves, they could be getting steep kickbacks from the manufacturer for installing so many devices. So by removing something from the estimate that was either mostly free, or entirely free, you would still have to pay the full amount for the SWG

Man, that makes sense...so $1600 it is then! Definitely going SWG one way or another!

 

[trophft]

T,

Let's see what @PoolGate has to say about using the Fusion soft system..

Jim R.

Jim thank you,
I'm literally emailing back and forth with PB right now because we want to sign and start digging on Monday! I want to negotiate these things (remove some things like IFCS and Minerals; and add some things like SWG and automation) but trying to hold the current total cost steady!

 

[trophft]

Jim thank you,
I'm literally emailing back and forth with PB right now because we want to sign and start digging on Monday! I want to negotiate these things (remove some things like IFCS and Minerals; and add some things like SWG and automation) but trying to hold the current total cost steady!

Unfortunately I don't know if I'm removing pennies while adding benjamins...

 

[Newdude]

(remove some things like IFCS and Minerals; and add some things like SWG and automation)

Unfortunately I don't know if I'm removing pennies while adding benjamins

The above would simply be redirecting your benjamins from less useful things to more useful things that also happen to be widely endorsed on TFP as assets.

The minerals as you know won't change much by removing it. The IFCS however does cost a pretty penny. You will notice that coming off the quote.

 

[PoolGate]

$1600 is a bit high as a replacement cost when you were already spec'd out the Fusion system. But the fusion system is only like $300 anyway. The increase is not too bad considering you are moving to one of the best salt systems on the market.

Make sure to be clear with him that you do not want the mineral cartridge added to the vessel. In fact, as soon as it is delivered, grab the starter cartridge out of the box and put it away. If he gives you a free cartridge grab that one as well. My builder gave me a regular cartridge and the unit also comes with a starter cartridge (doesn't last as long as the regular one). You can sell both these on ebay for like $200.

 

[trophft]

The above would simply be redirecting your benjamins from less useful things to more useful things that also happen to be widely endorsed on TFP as assets.

The minerals as you know won't change much by removing it. The IFCS however does cost a pretty penny. You will notice that coming off the quote.

Newdude,
He said removing the IFCS wouldnt affect the price (I'm assuming he gets a kickback for selling it?). My thought was to remove the IFCS to help offset the cost of the SWG, but if I'm paying out of pocket for the full cost of the SWG then i guess I'll keep the IFCS...