Algae - SLAM (or use Shock?)

[Trishanna]

Just a quick update. It's been a busy weekend. And these trees aren't giving me a break - skimmed the pool 3 times today. Those oak trees are going to get old.

I didn't realize it but apparently we don't have a plunger. I guess we didn't bring one and haven't needed one since we moved. Or else it's packed somewhere (not likely).

So ... I went to try the shop vac, but before I did, I put the dowel in to try to loosen things up, and discovered that it felt a LOT clearer. Still a mass of leaves, but before it was like the pipe was just about packed as far down as I could reach, and almost to the drain opening. So we went to check the pump filter and ... it was packed FULL of black rotted leaves, acorns, etc. I had just cleaned it within the past day or 2. So I think my initial poking around must have loosened it, and the pump ended up sucking it in.

We used the shop vac, and it pulled out some more. It's not 100% clear, but a lot better. At that point, we were running out of daylight.

And I backwashed again, before I read the posts here. It's been I think 2 days since the last time though. The pressure coming out on the backwash was less than usual, and it took a minute for the water to get slightly dirty-looking. It didn't look completely clean, but that could be because the stream looks different with a bit less pressure. It's still a stream the size of the pipe, but before it was a strong gush that has really cut out a groove from the ground.

I think we need to fix the gauge asap. I don't really know what's going on with the filter, and I think I need a better handle on it.

I wish I could say the pool is clean. I think there is no more problem with algae, haven't seen any indication of problems and chlorine loss is much lower. But with all the leaves in the system, and more keep getting dropped to the bottom ...

I didn't get to vacuum today, so I will have to do tomorrow. I'll have a look if I can pick up one of those simple vacuums. There's not too many leaves in the pool, and they are fresh, but there are some. I skim as often as possible, hoping they won't sink.

We still have pollen too, in big fist-sized clumps sometimes.

The trees are just awful. But ... I think our chemistry and water are fine. It's just a matter of getting the plumbing cleaned out and the proper tools for keeping it clean.



Getting there ... !

Thanks everyone!

 

[Butterfly]

Hi Trishanna,

There's nothing like having a bunch of oak trees near your pool to create a work load! Whew! You have things under control and are doing a great job getting things sorted out

Has anyone mentioned a PoolSkim? We have had only great reviews for it. You might want to keep this in mind to help with all the oak-fall-out. You can do a search (upper right) for more info.

Now, having had to deal with your wind-driven spring tree litter situation personally :grrrr: , I found a couple tricks. First, I learned that I could not leave pool for more than 45 minutes because the skimmer would fill quickly and start packing! So, I found a plastic grid larger than the skimmer opening with appx. 1" holes and hung it in front of the skimmer. It was att'd with a string to a brick on the deck and I used a 2-liter bottle filled w/water att'd to the grid to hold it flat to the pool wall in front of skimmer. This made the leaves gather in front of the skimmer.

If I took too long to get back to it, the gathered leaf mountain would sometimes break away and start floating around and around the pool (get a visual here). But, the thing is, the leaves did not overpower the skimmer and they stayed pretty much together. Yes, some will sink but they are pretty easy to remove with a leaf rake. My goal was to keep them out of my pump system. It worked for me.

Scenario: Pool is clean & summer storm flies buy blowing all that tree junk plus more into your pool Two people can make this a fast clean-up. One with blower blowing leaves to one side/corner and one scooping with leaf rake. We could do a big clean-up in five or ten minutes.
BTW, my neighbors' trees, well....

 

[TreeFiter]

Just a quick update. It's been a busy weekend. And these trees aren't giving me a break - skimmed the pool 3 times today. Those oak trees are going to get old.

I didn't realize it but apparently we don't have a plunger. I guess we didn't bring one and haven't needed one since we moved. Or else it's packed somewhere (not likely).

So ... I went to try the shop vac, but before I did, I put the dowel in to try to loosen things up, and discovered that it felt a LOT clearer. Still a mass of leaves, but before it was like the pipe was just about packed as far down as I could reach, and almost to the drain opening. So we went to check the pump filter and ... it was packed FULL of black rotted leaves, acorns, etc. I had just cleaned it within the past day or 2. So I think my initial poking around must have loosened it, and the pump ended up sucking it in.

We used the shop vac, and it pulled out some more. It's not 100% clear, but a lot better. At that point, we were running out of daylight.

And I backwashed again, before I read the posts here. It's been I think 2 days since the last time though. The pressure coming out on the backwash was less than usual, and it took a minute for the water to get slightly dirty-looking. It didn't look completely clean, but that could be because the stream looks different with a bit less pressure. It's still a stream the size of the pipe, but before it was a strong gush that has really cut out a groove from the ground.

I think we need to fix the gauge asap. I don't really know what's going on with the filter, and I think I need a better handle on it.

I wish I could say the pool is clean. I think there is no more problem with algae, haven't seen any indication of problems and chlorine loss is much lower. But with all the leaves in the system, and more keep getting dropped to the bottom ...

I didn't get to vacuum today, so I will have to do tomorrow. I'll have a look if I can pick up one of those simple vacuums. There's not too many leaves in the pool, and they are fresh, but there are some. I skim as often as possible, hoping they won't sink.

We still have pollen too, in big fist-sized clumps sometimes.

The trees are just awful. But ... I think our chemistry and water are fine. It's just a matter of getting the plumbing cleaned out and the proper tools for keeping it clean.



Getting there ... !

Thanks everyone!

When you backwashed and saw it had lower pressure than usual, was it before or after you found the pump basket full of leaves and acorns? If that pump basket is full, it can limit the flow.

If the clog is breaking up on its own, that's good news, but usually these clogs happen because something bigger gets stuck at the elbow, like a stick that isn't going to make it around the bend. Then the leaves get hung up on the stick. Sometimes acorns will get wedged in there (like two people trying to walk through a doorway at the same time) and do the same thing. In any case, keep an eye on the pump basket. If more breaks free, you will want to get it out of there.

My personal opinion with regard to fixing your pressure gauge, is that its a waste of time. Those gauges don't last long, and you will probably end up replacing it every other season. You can get a pretty good sense for pressure just by looking at the stream coming out of your return jets.

 

[Smykowski]

My personal opinion with regard to fixing your pressure gauge, is that its a waste of time. Those gauges don't last long, and you will probably end up replacing it every other season. You can get a pretty good sense for pressure just by looking at the stream coming out of your return jets.

I have to disagree here. 95% of us will never be able to tell pressure by looking at/feeling flow. A pressure gauge is the only way to determine the health of the plumbing, and having a working gauge is very important.

Whether it's a cheap one that gets replaced every couple of years or a good liquid gauge that lasts a lot longer, I would put a new gauge on there.

 

[TreeFiter]

I have to disagree here. 95% of us will never be able to tell pressure by looking at/feeling flow. A pressure gauge is the only way to determine the health of the plumbing, and having a working gauge is very important.

Whether it's a cheap one that gets replaced every couple of years or a good liquid gauge that lasts a lot longer, I would put a new gauge on there.

We aren't typically worried about small changes in pressure. Usually we are looking at a 10 psi change before there is reason for concern. You can easily see a 10 psi change. If under normal circumstances the return jets create a disturbance at the surface, when there is a 10 psi drop, that disturbance goes away. Under normal operating conditions, it shouldn't be easy to cover the return jet with the palm of your hand. With a 10 psi drop it can easily be done. These are not difficult things to observe, and can be done by just about anyone.

A gauge that completely fails after a year or two can't be relied on for more than a few months. There is no way to know if the gauge is starting to fail and giving bad readings until it fails completely. The only thing I trust a pressure gauge to tell me on a filter, is when the pressure gauge has failed. At about $15 a pop, I just don't see any value in replacing it.

I deal with hundreds of pools every year, and almost never need a working pressure gauge.

 

[Trishanna]

Hi Trishanna,

There's nothing like having a bunch of oak trees near your pool to create a work load! Whew! You have things under control and are doing a great job getting things sorted out

Has anyone mentioned a PoolSkim? We have had only great reviews for it. You might want to keep this in mind to help with all the oak-fall-out. You can do a search (upper right) for more info.

Now, having had to deal with your wind-driven spring tree litter situation personally :grrrr: , I found a couple tricks. First, I learned that I could not leave pool for more than 45 minutes because the skimmer would fill quickly and start packing! So, I found a plastic grid larger than the skimmer opening with appx. 1" holes and hung it in front of the skimmer. It was att'd with a string to a brick on the deck and I used a 2-liter bottle filled w/water att'd to the grid to hold it flat to the pool wall in front of skimmer. This made the leaves gather in front of the skimmer.

If I took too long to get back to it, the gathered leaf mountain would sometimes break away and start floating around and around the pool (get a visual here). But, the thing is, the leaves did not overpower the skimmer and they stayed pretty much together. Yes, some will sink but they are pretty easy to remove with a leaf rake. My goal was to keep them out of my pump system. It worked for me.

Scenario: Pool is clean & summer storm flies buy blowing all that tree junk plus more into your pool Two people can make this a fast clean-up. One with blower blowing leaves to one side/corner and one scooping with leaf rake. We could do a big clean-up in five or ten minutes.
BTW, my neighbors' trees, well....

I'll check out the PoolSkim, thanks! And yes, those trees are driving me crazy. What I didn't realize is there's some kind of difference between them. Three of the trees have lost all their leaves, and I've been dealing with those. Two more are just getting well started, so ... it's a while before I'm done.

Great idea to build the block for the skimmer. I will definitely do that - I can easily see exactly what you mean!

And funny you should mention the leaf blower. I'd been toying with that idea (my husband loves to have a reason to use his leaf blower, LOL). I wasn't sure if it would sink them all, or blow them on the surface, or what, but I was ready to try it. He thought I was crazy. I do try to make some other use of all that time I spend skimming leaves (I have a book cartridge from the library at the moment - an 18-hour book isn't going to last long at this rate, LOL) but ... I have other things to do besides just clean the pool too! I will have him try with the blower this evening when he gets home. I'm sure I can wait a couple of hours and have a nice fresh crop of leaves.

Thanks again.

 

[Trishanna]

When you backwashed and saw it had lower pressure than usual, was it before or after you found the pump basket full of leaves and acorns? If that pump basket is full, it can limit the flow.

If the clog is breaking up on its own, that's good news, but usually these clogs happen because something bigger gets stuck at the elbow, like a stick that isn't going to make it around the bend. Then the leaves get hung up on the stick. Sometimes acorns will get wedged in there (like two people trying to walk through a doorway at the same time) and do the same thing. In any case, keep an eye on the pump basket. If more breaks free, you will want to get it out of there.

My personal opinion with regard to fixing your pressure gauge, is that its a waste of time. Those gauges don't last long, and you will probably end up replacing it every other season. You can get a pretty good sense for pressure just by looking at the stream coming out of your return jets.

Well, I didn't try backwashing before I emptied the pump basket. We were getting ready to try everything to clear the clog, and as soon as I saw there was less of a clog the first thing I did was check the pump basket.

I was worried about what you said - something like a stick stuck in the elbow. And it's not clear yet, and something is keeping the clog there, even though it's much less packed. The vacuum didn't clear it all either. I wish I knew just what came out with the vac, but my husband forgot to clean out the vac first so it was a web glob of all KINDS of mess, and no idea how much was in there already, and how much came out of the pipe. After the first try, we emptied out all the weird gunk, and I got some leaves after that but not all of them.

I'll definitely keep checking the pump basket and keep it clear, and keep checking the skim drain line. I have a slim pole with a hook on it that I used for cleaning the skimmer (so I don't have to pull it out of there with my hands if there are dead things - or still living ones!) in the skimmer area. I use that to check inside the drain, and I'll see if I can gently free things up better or feel around for what's in there. Repeat with vac if it helps. I'll give it a day or so and see what happens, then try something else if we need to.

I probably will get a gauge, at least a cheap one once. There are other weird things going on with the plumbing, I think. I'm not even sure what's normal. Until I get a good feel for how it's supposed to work, I think it's probably a good idea to keep an eye on things. This is all just completely new to me, and I think I'm figuring it out, but it's better for me to invest $15 in a gauge that might prevent a more serious problem, which I probably wouldn't be able to afford to fix.

But I really appreciate the other info. Once I get the system straightened out, I can probably tell what's what.

See, right now I have one eyeball by the steps that always seems to work perfectly. It disturbs the surface, no bubbles, etc. I check that one every time I turn the pump on to make sure things are working at least as they usually do. There is one opposite it I didn't even know was there for a while. It sometimes disturbs the water now, but not always. (I may have moved it while scrubbing, I don't know). I focus on two others. One before the skimmer basket, that gets BIG bubbles when the skimmer gets blocked up too much, and now that the water is clear I can see from how far the tiny bubbles it always has shoot how the pressure is there. It stays decent, as long as the skimmer basket isn't full. And one on the other side of the skimmer basket, that almost doesn't work at all. On a really good day, it might make a tiny little whirlpool on the surface for a second or two sometimes. Normally I see nothing from it. The water is still too cold to get in to check what's really going on with them. And I'm not convinced the pool drain in the bottom is working well.

I'm not sure how abnormal all these things are or not, but I'm just concerned until I can get it working right and see what it looks like when it works right. Then I'll have more confidence.

But then again, I'm so busy keeping it clean, and I also have a couple of other repair issues from the storm (not pool related) that my husband is going to have to take care of first when he has time. So ... the gauge isn't going to happen today or tomorrow. If I can get comfortable (somehow) before that happens, I may just go with that. But I'm thinking I will probably put at least one on there. I'd rather know where I stand, and it's hard to trust myself when I am just learning how all this works.

I really, really appreciate all your help, and everyone else's too.

If the weather warms up, we might actually get to use the pool. I know my daughter is pretty anxious.

 

[duraleigh]

I deal with hundreds of pools every year, and almost never need a working pressure gauge.

treefiter,

Good for you. Did you ever think about the reason you don't need one? It's because you deal with hundreds every year!!!

Over and over, we have to tell technicians out in the field that their methods and practices do not often work with residential pool owners.

Your advice may be good for a person working on pools everyday but it is certainly not good advice for residential pool owners.

For the members on this forum (and me), I consider a working pressure gauge an essential part of your pool water management.

Treefiter, when you re-post, please consider that this is a forum aimed at private individuals and not a forum for tips for pool technicians.......the two are often not compatible and your opinion of working gauges is a prime example.

 

[Trishanna]

7 inches of rain - and another boatload of leaves dumped into the pool. At least the pollen was mostly in floating mats this morning and for the volume was much easier to remove.

Really, I WILL get there someday! Of course, I guess I'm in no hurry since it's going into the mid-30's tonight.

I think normally people in Florida are using their pools by this time of year??? It IS supposed to be in the 80s in a few days.

Weird weather.

 

[pwrstrk]

Have you considered getting a leaf net ?

 

[Trishanna]

Have you considered getting a leaf net ?

I had never heard of one before, but I looked it up, and yes, I'm very interested! I think I will be looking into that.

Though I think this last storm probably knocked all of last year's leaves off (I can hope!) and I'm HOPING it won't be much until next year. Unless we have another storm, which we are prone to have here.

Hubby's talking about cutting down the trees. I may yet give him my blessing, but they're fairly nice trees, and we may be glad of the shade in summer, so I told him we need to wait a year or so to decide.

I think a net is a much more prudent solution. We were thinking of a cover, but if the net can be gathered like it seems some can, that would be even better.

Thanks for mentioning it!

 

[Beens]

Our pools are very different but I thought I'd comment about the leaf net. I bought one last fall and I am so glad I did! I LOVE IT!

Below is a pic of my leaf net when I first put it on, then a pic when the leaves started falling from that EVIL Bradford Pear tree I HATE!

I took the net off about a week and a half ago and I was kicking myself for not putting it back on last week when we had some storms move through. What a mess of skimming and raking I had!

Leaf net is back on thank God because we are having more wind the past few days and more stupid stuff from that dumb tree is blowing into the pool.

One of the things I like about the net is that I can just skim the leaves etc. off of it with my regular pole skimmer or my new deeper leaf rake skimmer. It's even a little easier for me because the net can support some of the weight of the skimmer when I get it closer to the middle of the pool.

I don't have to worry about them sinking to the bottom. The only negative for me is that since it sits on the surface of the water I can't use the skimmer. Technically I can leave it hooked up but it won't really do anything for skimming because the net is in the way so when I have the net on I just unhook the skimmer and let it pull from the wall intake.






and this is what happened last week when I had the leaf net off and didn't think about getting it back on until it was too late and I had to leave for work...and we had some bad storms...

 

[Trishanna]

I have a new problem - I was going to start a new thread, but couldn't decide where it should go.

Thanks for the pics on the leaf net. I haven't been able to get one, but just going through the motions of removing leaves, things going pretty well, no money to replace parts or buy anything new, and yesterday the water was just starting to feel warm enough to swim ...

Then we had about 2 feet of rain and a flash flood.

Most of the flood went through the side yard, but I know it dumped some in the pool. There were leaves and soda cans floating in it, and I can see dirt dumped in. I can't quite make out details in the deep end. Lots of leaves down there again. The water is once again cloudy, darkish-greenish-not quite blackish. Actually MUCH better than I started with before, and the color is probably due to suspended particles, dirt, and a very cloudy sky.

So ... DEEP SIGH ... any suggestions for how I begin to clean it out again? Like I said, I don't think it's algae, there was none yesterday. Just whatever got washed in from the flood. The pump is turned off (I think I saw something swimming in the skimmer opening - I hope it's not a snake). Not many leaves in there, and not much floating on the surface. I got the chairs and cans out, will get the leaves when all danger of lightning is past.

I'm sure I need to drain off some water, and get started with the leaf rake.

I do have the pump that I used to just vacuum up sand and all. But it cycles stuff it picks up THROUGH the pump, and a bunch of leaves at once will clog it, though it can handle acorns, sand, and a few leaves at a time.

Should I run the filter, or can it possibly damage anything? And I'm guessing I need to get the creature out of the skimmer - I hope it doesn't swim down into the drain.

Any suggestions, cautions? Should I post in a different forum? I wasn't sure which one, opening/closing may be the closest but wasn't sure?

Thanks everyone. At least this time I can take pics from the beginning if ya want.

I'm rather tired and discouraged at the moment. My teenage daughter (who just started working and just got her license) got off work last night, and that's when we found out about all the flooding, and she was stranded there all night and just finally got her safely home - I've been awake nearly a day and a half right now and I just don't feel up to this - but I AM glad she's safely home (even though she was hard-headed and drove home without letting me know she was leaving, and the roads WERE still underwater, but she found alternate routes - but I'm a little ticked because she didn't even let me know she was on the way).

Any help re: the pool and what I should do MOST appreciated.

 

[Smykowski]

Sorry to hear, but glad everyone is ok.

I would guess that most of the stuff that made it into the pool is dirt and debris. However, you probably need to SLAM again, just to be absolutely sure that the gross is out of the water, but I think that the process will be much, much faster this time.

Take some pictures, and keep us posted.

 

[Trishanna]

I think I just erased my reply. Hit the wrong button.

I thank you so much for the reply. Looks like it's mostly leaves and dirt. The water is a bit cloudy, but I can see the bottom. Hard to judge the color well because it's so cloudy, and I guess the usual pretty blue is really the liner anyway, which is now coated in gunk.

Removed some water, got all the debris off the top, hit it with chlorine. Not quite as high of levels as before since I didn't retest the CYA and we got around 2 feet of rain. I'll definitely take and post pics this time all the way through. I don't think it will take as long (I hope!) since it's dirt instead of algae? It may be a couple of days before I can really start, since we are supposed to have more storms, but if I have a safe chance tomorrow I'll get out there with the leaf rake. I need to get that out before I can use the vacuum. I'll scrub it down too, I guess.

Hubby maybe gets to help this time. My shoulder has been pulled for a month from cleaning it before, and the roads are still closed (and may be for a while) for him to go to work. Sinkhole at the job site. Florida can be fun.

Seriously though, I don't mean to complain. Lots of folks have it worse. Thanks very much for the help and advice. I hope this storm system didn't cause problems or danger to any of you all.

Thanks again, very much.

 

[AprilNC]

Glad everyone is safe! My family in the panhandle are dealing with flooded houses, so I hope things settle down for all of you very soon!

leaf rake, vacuum, filter, filter, filter ... shouldn't take as long this time!

Be careful!

 

[Trishanna]

Going to try to get the photos in. These are after removing the debris and the majority of what was floating on the pool, but it started storming again so didn't get all the leaves.

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[Trishanna]

Glad everyone is safe! My family in the panhandle are dealing with flooded houses, so I hope things settle down for all of you very soon!

leaf rake, vacuum, filter, filter, filter ... shouldn't take as long this time!

Be careful!

Thanks. I mainly wanted to be sure I could filter as normal and not worry about it.

I do hope things are ok with your family. Flooded houses are no fun to clean up and can be dangerous too. I hope nothing too precious was lost. In the end, we are all glad when everyone is safe, yes. Thank you very much.

I actually feel fortunate it's just a bit of a mess in the pool, and lost some fencing and had things knocked around a bit. Even the chickens are ok though the flood went right through the lower part of their coop. Well, they are alive, and they should be fine. Flooding can be so dangerous, and I'm so thankful my daughter made it home safely. She took out the trash at work and stepped into thigh-deep water, thankfully standing and not running. A pickup truck got washed alongside the store and was almost completely submerged. Like I said, I'm just thankful she's safe.

And thank you again - hope things go ok for your family.

 

[Trishanna]

Got most of the leaves out - I have a 55 gal garbage can that's about half full. Some of the gunk as well, some sticks and assorted stuff. Quite a few dead frogs.

Running the filter. Water still green and there's still a good bit of dirt in there.

I might have made more progress, but hubby decided to go fishing yesterday and I messed up my shoulder scrubbing it daily while dealing with the algae, then he came home and turned the pump off without saying anything, so ... if he had let it run all night, the stuff should have been more gathered in piles the way it does when the pump runs. Instead it fell everywhere and so it's all spread on the liner again. I don't think I'm going to let him swim when I finally get it clean!

Anyway ... I mostly need to get out the dirt and general green-ness. It doesn't look any cleaner (the water) but I did get the big stuff out of the bottom. I'm keeping chlorine up to near-shock level once a day, just in case. Enough grossness in there, I'm sure there are germs that need killing. I'm guessing the chlorine is supposed to do that too?

Plugging along. The only good thing is we got cold weather along with the storms, so the pool is once again too cold to swim in anyway, which makes it a little more bearable. Being in Florida, I'd have thought we could have opened it a month ago. But the weather is very strange this year. Such is life ...

 

[Casey]

Can you post a full set of test results.

I would SLAM the pool. Aside from the leaves, it looks cloudy and green.