Advice needed on my new pool

[PoolBrews]

I'm not sure you want to connect your autofill to sprinkler control. The autofill is designed to be connected directly to a water source - or are you putting it on a zone that will be on all the time? You don't know when the autofill will demand water, and for how long, so it is best to have it connected to constant source of water. Also, is the water in the sprinkler system the same as your house water? You don't want to use a non-potable source for your pool.

With the shallower depth of the deep end, I would look at a channel drain. Normal main drains are fine when the pool is 7' or deeper, but when it gets 6' or less, folks are always stubbing their feet on the raised drains... and the pool cleaner likes to get hung up on it. That is the single feature I really wish I could change on my new pool.

Long term, you may regret the 3.5' decision. My first pool was 3.5' - 8', and once the kids got a little older, this was way too shallow. Both of my last two pools have started at 4'. That works out much better for us (and we are not that tall!).

 

[tfp_fan]

I am wondering if the “Silencer 1 HP” is ok for my spa blower? or should I ask the builder for "1.5 HP"? The builder proposed seven (7) Hydrostream jets, however, I am thinking to ask him to install Paramount Parajets, instead. @mas985, @ajw22, @mknauss, @jimmythegreek, @setsailsoon, @Texas Splash, @Jimrahbe, @Stoopalini, @YippeeSkippy, @kimkats, @MyAZPool, @Dirk, @zea3, @JoyfulNoise, @Richard320, @JamesW, @Bama Rambler

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I will say, I have the 2HP blower and it blows the water all over the place and is a little much at times. I thought about picking up a 1HP to see if it was any better. I don't know anything about the different jets you are considering.

--Jeff

 

[mas985]

I am wondering if the “Silencer 1 HP” is ok for my spa blower? or should I ask the builder for "1.5 HP"? The builder proposed seven (7) Hydrostream jets, however, I am thinking to ask him to install Paramount Parajets, instead. @mas985

Blowers are mainly a crutch used by PBs that don't really know how to design a spa properly. It helps push the water out of the air lines but there are techniques one can use to make sure water doesn't flood the air lines so the venturis can easily pull the water out of the air lines. Air is required for massaging feel of the jets but the venturis are powerful enough to clear the air lines as long as there is not too much water in the lines. Design is critical.

What size water/air pipe is the PB planning on using for the spa? Should be a minimum of 2.5" but could be larger depending on the jet requirements.

What it is the run length between pump and spa?

What is the elevation change between pump and spa?

What is the gpm requirement for each type of jet?

 

[mihzyd777]

I am wondering if the “Silencer 1 HP” is ok for my spa blower? or should I ask the builder for "1.5 HP"? The builder proposed seven (7) Hydrostream jets, however, I am thinking to ask him to install Paramount Parajets, instead. @mas985, @ajw22, @mknauss, @jimmythegreek, @setsailsoon, @Texas Splash, @Jimrahbe, @Stoopalini, @YippeeSkippy, @kimkats, @MyAZPool, @Dirk, @zea3, @JoyfulNoise, @Richard320, @JamesW, @Bama Rambler

I think you posted this in the wrong spot?

 

[ajw22]

I am wondering if the “Silencer 1 HP” is ok for my spa blower? or should I ask the builder for "1.5 HP"?

Bigger is not better for spa air blowers. It needs to be properly sized for your spa design. Below is a Blower Sizing Worksheet from Polaris/Zodiac...

https://www.zodiacpoolsystems.com/-/media/Zodiac/Global/Downloads/1-4-1050.ashx

Zodiac Blower Sizing Worksheet.png

• ajw22
• Nov 20, 2020

Spa Air Blower - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[tfp_fan]

The builder has also proposed Pentair intelliflo VS (3HP) for my pool and spa and also Pentair max E pro 1 HP UR EE for the water feature. I am wondering if there is any change needed for the pumps (for example changing the waterfeature pump to 2HP Whisperflow) or the current ones are fine?

 

[mas985]

Blowers are mainly a crutch used by PBs that don't really know how to design a spa properly. It helps push the water out of the air lines but there are techniques one can use to make sure water doesn't flood the air lines so the venturis can easily pull the water out of the air lines. Air is required for massaging feel of the jets but the venturis are powerful enough to clear the air lines as long as there is not too much water in the lines. Design is critical.

What size water/air pipe is the PB planning on using for the spa? Should be a minimum of 2.5" but could be larger depending on the jet requirements.

What it is the run length between pump and spa?

What is the elevation change between pump and spa?

What is the gpm requirement for each type of jet?

You might need a separate spa pump. Again, it depends on the design criteria. In addition to the above questions:

What is the flow rate requirement for each feature? Every water feature used should publish flow rate recommendations.

 

[tfp_fan]

@mknauss and @ajw22 thank you for your comments on the stacked stone. Actually, I received three proposals from different builders and all of them proposed stacked stone spillway for the spa. I do appreciate it if you could suggest for the alternative. I am wondering what I should ask the builder to do for the spa spillway instead of stacked stone to minimize waterline scale, evaporation, and efflorescence?

Thank you @mknauss @ajw22 for your comments on the stacked stone spillway. By ceramic tile, do you mean similar to the spa in this sample photo?

 

[ajw22]

Thank you @mknauss @ajw22 for your comments on the stacked stone spillway. By ceramic tile, do you mean similar to the spa in this sample photo?

No, that is 1x1 inch tile with way too many grout lines to maintain.

It is better to use one of the 6”x6” tiles...

National Pool Tile | Tile Collection & Catalog | NPTpool.com

National pool tile Collection will help you discover a pool tile that’s a reflection of your own personal style. Explore our stunning glass, subtle earth tones, simple waterline, raised spa wall & poolscape. For more tile color & sizes, Visit NPTpool.com

www.nptpool.com

 

[tfp_fan]

I agree with YippeeSkippy on the pool cooler. I should have done that myself. I have the same depth profile you do, 3.5-5. I have decided that on my next pool, I would do a minimum depth of 4' in the shallow end and probably a sport pool profile, where it is deepest in the middle and shallower on the ends. Do like a 4-6-4.5. I will say, 5' is a little shallow when doing a cannonball. I bump my backside when I do that.

If you are wanting to control landscape lighting and other stuff with the Intellicenter, I would suggest getting the i10 version, as it comes with the maximum amount of relays and that leaves you the most flexibility. The cost shouldn't be much more than the i8.

For the lights, I don't think the Microbrites have the intensity/output that the Intellibrites do, so that may require additional lights.

Make the equipment pad as large as you possibly can. If you think you might want to add the cooler in the future, make sure you leave room for that. I think those things are like 40" in diameter or something like that, it's been a little bit since I've looked. Homerun everything back to the pool pad. All skimmers, drains, returns, etc, should be run back, so that you could isolate that line, should something happen to it, and not have to affect the rest of the pool functions. I didn't see it called out but only Jandy Never Lube valves, no ball valves.

Bubblers won't really help with the water temp on the first step. The water on that step will get warm. My tanning ledge water was significantly warmer than the rest of the pool. I think that might have been the biggest contributor to my pool temps getting so warm. The bubblers are fun to play with though. Especially when you crank the pump speed up and let them rip! The youngun's that we had in the pool this year loved when I would do that. I tend to use my bubblers for a nice soothing noise, while I'm drinking my coffee on the patio.

--Jeff

Thank you Jeff for your comments. I am still thinking which of IntelliCenter i8 or i10 I should get to be able to add landscaping light (now or in future) and control them? I hope @MyAZPool and @Jimrahbe can help me to decide.

 

[tfp_fan]

Allen (@ajw22), I would like to confirm with my builder the valves at the pad and also the separate piping, and make sure they will do it correctly. Based on what I have learned here so far, I should confirm:

• installing separate valves for all the suction lines at the equipment pad (one from the spa bottom drain, one from the pool bottom drain, and one each from the skimmers)
• installing separate valves to turn off the scupper (???)
• installing separate valves for the return eyes (which should be piped together ???)

Please let me know if the above is not right (I have question marks for the ones that I was not sure). Also, I do appreciate it if there would be any other related point to be considered.

 

[ajw22]

Allen (@ajw22), I would like to confirm with my builder the valves at the pad and also the separate piping, and make sure they will do it correctly. Based on what I have learned here so far, I should confirm:

• installing separate valves for all the suction lines at the equipment pad (one from the spa bottom drain, one from the pool bottom drain, and one each from the skimmers)
• installing separate valves to turn off the scupper (???)
• installing separate valves for the return eyes (which should be piped together ???)

Please let me know if the above is not right (I have question marks for the ones that I was not sure). Also, I do appreciate it if there would be any other related point to be considered.

Ask your PB to draw you a plumbing diagram and indicate where valves will be installed. There are a lot of ways to plumb a pool and what valves you need depends on how it is done.

Share with us what he gives you.

 

[ajw22]

Thank you Jeff for your comments. I am still thinking which of IntelliCenter i8 or i10 I should get to be able to add landscaping light (now or in future) and control them? I hope @MyAZPool and @Jimrahbe can help me to decide.

Does not make a big difference. The nice thing about the IntelliCenter is it is modular. If you get an i8 you can add a card and expand it if necessary.

What Is the list of devices you want to control and how many high voltage relays and actuators you need?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Fan,

The 8 and the 10 are the number of high voltage relays that come with the system.. The difference should be less than $200 bucks, so I would go with the 10.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[MyAZPool]

Thank you Jeff for your comments. I am still thinking which of IntelliCenter i8 or i10 I should get to be able to add landscaping light (now or in future) and control them? I hope @MyAZPool and @Jimrahbe can help me to decide.

@tfp_fan
Agree with Jim in his post above. The cost of purchasing the i10 over the i8 initially is minuscule compared to the cost of upgrading from an i8 to an i10 later... Those daughter cards (i8 and i10) when purchased a-la-carte are not cheap at all. Believe me, I happen to know that fact from personal experience.

A little "future-proofing" at the time of initial purchase/installation is always less expensive in dollars, time and work. Again, I have learned that valuable lesson first hand during various pool equipment upgrades and retrofits.

Good luck with your new build and take care..
r...

 

[tfp_fan]

Ask your PB to draw you a plumbing diagram and indicate where valves will be installed. There are a lot of ways to plumb a pool and what valves you need depends on how it is done.

Share with us what he gives you.

Thank you, @ajw22, for your suggestion. I will ask the builder to draw me a plumbing diagram with the valves location. I am also wondering if my water feature (scuppers) should be independently plumbed back to the equipment pad? The builder has proposed separate pump for the waterfeature, but I don't know what the correct plumbing diagram is.

 

[tfp_fan]

Fan,

The 8 and the 10 are the number of high voltage relays that come with the system.. The difference should be less than $200 bucks, so I would go with the 10.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you, @Jimrahbe, for your great suggestion. Please let me have your comments on these, as well:

1. In my pool design, my spa water will spillover into the pool. I had read that "saltwater cell must be plumbed after the spa bypass. If it is plumbed ahead of the bypass, when the cell reverses polarity and kicks off the calcium, the amount that goes in the spa will settle on the floor and benches and will be difficult to remove. If it is plumbed it after the bypass, the calcium will go into the pool and the pool cleaner will pick it up." Considering that I will have automation system (IntelliCenter), I would like to check if the above-mentioned way is the correct one before confirming it with my builder.
2. The builder has also proposed Pentair intelliflo VS (3HP) for my pool and spa and also Pentair max E pro 1 HP UR EE for the water feature. I am wondering if there is any change needed for the pumps (for example changing the waterfeature pump to 2HP Whisperflow)? or the current ones are fine? I am asking since I would like to know if the waterfeature pump mentoned above (Pentair max E pro 1 HP UR EE) can be controlled by the automation system if it is needed? (and I really don't know if the water feature operation are usually suggested to be operated on automation system or not?)

 

[ajw22]

I am also wondering if my water feature (scuppers) should be independently plumbed back to the equipment pad? The builder has proposed separate pump for the waterfeature, but I don't know what the correct plumbing diagram is.

It sounds like your builder is trying to do the right things. You can't micro manage him and tell him what to do. Get his plans and then you can review it.

A separate pump is best for a water feature. If the scuppers are on a separate pump they need to be independently plumbed to the equipment pad and that pump.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I had read that "saltwater cell must be plumbed after the spa bypass. If it is plumbed ahead of the bypass, when the cell reverses polarity and kicks off the calcium, the amount that goes in the spa will settle on the floor and benches and will be difficult to remove.

Fan,

Where did you read that??? I have not heard that before, and I really doubt it makes much difference.. But.. I don't see a problem with only using the SWCG for the pool, if that is what you want to do.. The spillover will keep your spa sanitized.

Your automation will control the IntelliFlo using an RS-485 serial cable... It can also control any Single Speed pump by using one of the high voltage relays. Obviously, it will only be able to turn the pump on or off. I know the pump your pool builder wants to use is a good pump, but I am not so sure it is a "water feature" pump.. Let's ask @JamesW .. and see what he has to say..

Thanks,

Jim R.