Advice needed on my new pool

[tfp_fan]

Hello all! We are finally about to sign the contract for our first pool and appreciate any guidance you can provide:
First, let me mention that the backyard faces west, and the pool will be mostly under the sun during the hot Texas noons/afternoons/evenings.

Specification and Equipment

• In ground saltwater freeform pool and spa, 38.67’x14.25’, 3.5’ to 6’ deep (I will ask the builder to change the deep end to 5’), ~13048 gallons
• 12" raised beam splitface travertine wall, three 18"x18"x18" columns and three 18" travertine scuppers
• 6’ stacked stone spa spillway
• Pentair Intellichlor IC40 salt cell (I will ask the builder to have minimum 18” straight pipe before the SWG)
• Silencer 1 HP for spa blower
• seven Hydrostream spa jets (I am wondering if I ask the builder to change it to Paramount parajets?)
• Pentair Intelliflo VS (3HP) for pool and spa
• Pentair Max E Pro 1 HP UR EE for water feature
• Pentair Clean & Clear 420 cartridge filter (wondering if I change it to 520? and wondering if I ask to add cyclone prefilter, too?)
• Paramount PV3 Infloor cleaning with Pentair Whisper Flo 1 HP FR EE (booster pump) (I will take the infloor cleaning and the pump off and add Pentair Prowler robotic cleaner?)
• Pentair Easy Touch 8 function with screen logic wireless bundle for salt (I will ask the builder to change it with IntelliCenter)
• Pentair MasterTemp 400 natural gas heater (I will ask builder to install it with the bypass valve)
• two (2) Pentair Intellibrite 12V color LED for the pool and one (1) for the spa (I will ask the builder to change them with MicroBrite)
• PVC schedule 40 on all pooling piping and pump connections (I will ask the builder to add unions for all the equipment at the pad)
• dual anti-vortex (qty 2); MDX R3 Qty 2
• 2" suction, separate lines for each skimmer & main drain
• Paramount paralevel autofill (I will ask the builder to make it controlled by sprinkler controller as a zone ??)
• overflow drain
• two Pentair Bermuda skimmers
• seven (7) min directional returns, 2” returns to 1st ‘T’
• water connection via backflow preventer
• separate valves, Pentair ComPool 2-way, 3-way, and checkvalve
• PebbleTec PebbleSheen Tier 1 for the interior of the pool and spa (the builder suggested Blue Surf ??)
• 3cm bullnose contrasting travertine coping
• spraydeck for new decking and capping the existing patio (I will ask builder to change it to travertine)
• 9’x3’ equipment pad (I am not sure if it is sufficient but I will ask the builder to make it large enough to support any future equipment I may want to add in the future. Also will ask to add GFCI and a switched overhead LED floodlight at the pad)

@ajw22, @mknauss, @jimmythegreek, @setsailsoon, @Texas Splash, @Jimrahbe, @Stoopalini, @YippeeSkippy, @kimkats, @MyAZPool, @Dirk, @zea3, @JoyfulNoise, @Richard320, @JamesW, @Bama Rambler, and others, I would appreciate it if you could share your inputs/comments on the design, equipment, and specification listed above.
Also, I have the following questions:

• What do you think about adding Cyclone prefilter?
• There is an oversized 1st step for the kids (instead of a sunshelf). Any comments on its size (26 sq ft) and depth (9”) and the depths of the next steps (18” and 27”)?
• I am wondering if I should ask the builder to install bubblers in it (the oversized 1st step) to make it cooler for the kids during the hot summer? What would be the cons?
• I asked the builder to install neither drains nor suction port, but it seems that he is against the idea and in his opinion a pool must definitely have drain and suction. I am wondering what else we should consider instead for the pool if he accepts not to do drains/suction port?
• Regarding automation and IntelliCenter, what should I consider and check with the builder? for example, adequate number of relays, controlling the valves (between pool and spa mode, bubbler control), controlling the heater, …
• I am thinking to add landscape lights at the same time of the pool construction by the builder or later in future. What is your suggestion and what should I consider and ask from the builder now (please remember that I will have IntelliCenter for the automation)?

Thank you all for your time and attention. I’m looking forward to your comments.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Dont need the pre filter, don't bother with in floor. Get a good robot save that money. Do not put all returns on 1 line. Stack a pair on each line and 6 is plenty. With water feature you need more suction points than just skimmer. I hate drain covers in shallow pools. Personally I would stick with 6' depth the kids will want to jump into pool and 5 is not enough off a raised wall

 

[mknauss]

Be careful using stack stone in wet areas, including splash zones. You will get calcium buildup from evaporation and/or efflorescence.

 

[Nikilyn]

We are getting the Cyclone. My husband heard about it and it is not up for debate .
I would keep it 6’. Better for jumping in and it will keep the water a tad cooler than 5’. I would also think about a bench in the deep end on the opposite side. You will want somewhere to rest or get out at that end. In our last pool I always wished we had a bench in the deeper end on the opposite side because there was nowhere to stop and hang out over there so I made sure to add it this time.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I would make it 7+ feet water depth if you listened to *moi*...... deeper is safer, more fun as folks can dive and cannon ball.

I'd add a pool cooler since you're in all that west facing sun.

I like the rendition of the future pool very much.

Maddie

 

[Nikilyn]

@YippeeSkippy We also like the 7’ depth as that’s what we’re getting. It feels deep and safe for jumping. I never worried with that depth in our last pool. But it isn’t too deep where you have to worry about extra insurance for it. Win, win.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I agree with YippeeSkippy on the pool cooler. I should have done that myself. I have the same depth profile you do, 3.5-5. I have decided that on my next pool, I would do a minimum depth of 4' in the shallow end and probably a sport pool profile, where it is deepest in the middle and shallower on the ends. Do like a 4-6-4.5. I will say, 5' is a little shallow when doing a cannonball. I bump my backside when I do that.

If you are wanting to control landscape lighting and other stuff with the Intellicenter, I would suggest getting the i10 version, as it comes with the maximum amount of relays and that leaves you the most flexibility. The cost shouldn't be much more than the i8.

For the lights, I don't think the Microbrites have the intensity/output that the Intellibrites do, so that may require additional lights.

Make the equipment pad as large as you possibly can. If you think you might want to add the cooler in the future, make sure you leave room for that. I think those things are like 40" in diameter or something like that, it's been a little bit since I've looked. Homerun everything back to the pool pad. All skimmers, drains, returns, etc, should be run back, so that you could isolate that line, should something happen to it, and not have to affect the rest of the pool functions. I didn't see it called out but only Jandy Never Lube valves, no ball valves.

Bubblers won't really help with the water temp on the first step. The water on that step will get warm. My tanning ledge water was significantly warmer than the rest of the pool. I think that might have been the biggest contributor to my pool temps getting so warm. The bubblers are fun to play with though. Especially when you crank the pump speed up and let them rip! The youngun's that we had in the pool this year loved when I would do that. I tend to use my bubblers for a nice soothing noise, while I'm drinking my coffee on the patio.

--Jeff

 

[HermanTX]

I am thinking to add landscape lights at the same time of the pool construction by the builder or later in future. What is your suggestion and what should I consider and ask from the builder now (please remember that I will have IntelliCenter for the automation)?

The main part about landscape lighting is burying the conduit/cables. If you have a plan now of areas needing light, I would ensure conduit is laid or as a minimum mark where your pool plumbing and sprinkler pipes are so no damage when adding lighting later.
Also, will you try to have the IntelliCenter control the landscape lighting as well? Just a word of caution, don't rely too much on 1 system - if that goes down, everything does.

There is an oversized 1st step for the kids (instead of a sunshelf). Any comments on its size (26 sq ft) and depth (9”) and the depths of the next steps (18” and 27”)?

Just remember to add 4-6 inches for that first step from coping. I assume you mean 9 inches of water depth which normally goes to halfway up your water tiles and then add in coping height. The second and third steps seem fine

 

[ajw22]

• Stacked stone on spillway and other areas is hard to keep clean from waterline scale, evaporation, and efflorescence
• 7 returns is a lot for your size pool. 3-4 is all that is needed.
• Cyclone prefilter is a waster of money for most people
• three 9" steps are fine. What is the length of the first step? Will it take an adult two steps or three steps forward before the next step?
• Put contrasting edge tile on the edge of the steps so it is clearly visible that the steps are non-standard
• IntelliCenter is modular and expandable so you don't need to figure out everything you need now
• Bubbler is up to you
• Having drains or suction ports is nice to have at times although not mandatory. I would not make a big deal if the builder wants them in.
• You don't need to put in landscape lights now but plan for it by putting PVC conduit around the grounds so you can easily pull low voltage cables to the light locations. That way you don't need to dig up the area later.

 

[tfp_fan]

Dont need the pre filter, don't bother with in floor. Get a good robot save that money. Do not put all returns on 1 line. Stack a pair on each line and 6 is plenty. With water feature you need more suction points than just skimmer. I hate drain covers in shallow pools. Personally I would stick with 6' depth the kids will want to jump into pool and 5 is not enough off a raised wall

Thank you, @jimmythegreek, for your great comments on pre filter, robot, returns, and the depth. OK, I will keep the 6' as the deep end and won't change it to 5' (the reason I wanted to change to 5' was I thought the pool didn't have the sufficient length (it is 34-foot long) to have the gradual depth change from 3.5 to 6). About suction port, you recommend to have the suction ports but no main drain, don't you? I am asking to know if I understood correctly.

 

[spd500]

You are almost building my pool's twin! We have almost the exact same design as this, but flipped. Our profile is the same as the one you posted with the 6' deep end and it is not bad at all. The profile you shared has the larger shallow area before it drops off to the deep end, that is exactly what our pool does and the average adult (me) can touch the bottom almost from one end to the other. Shorter adults (my wife) can still touch the bottom safely in almost 2/3 of the pool. We have the 3.5' shallow end too, it is perfect.

 

[tfp_fan]

Be careful using stack stone in wet areas, including splash zones. You will get calcium buildup from evaporation and/or efflorescence.

@mknauss and @ajw22 thank you for your comments on the stacked stone. Actually, I received three proposals from different builders and all of them proposed stacked stone spillway for the spa. I do appreciate it if you could suggest for the alternative. I am wondering what I should ask the builder to do for the spa spillway instead of stacked stone to minimize waterline scale, evaporation, and efflorescence?

 

[spd500]

I am wondering what I should ask the builder to do for the spa spillway instead of stacked stone to minimize waterline scale, evaporation, and efflorescence?

We did ours with Chiseled Travertine that matches the coping, but it is too new to say how it will age. I will be interested to hear what the pros have to say on the subject.

 

[mknauss]

Tile. With minimal grout lines. Not as pretty as stacked stone when new, but a couple years later you have a better shot at it still looking good.

 

[ajw22]

I am wondering what I should ask the builder to do for the spa spillway instead of stacked stone to minimize waterline scale, evaporation, and efflorescence?

I know it does not have the bling but large smooth ceramic pool tiles are much easier to keep clean and looking good then stone under a spillway.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Remember, the pool builder isn't worried about long term appearance or upkeep. If its pretty and you oooh and ahhh happily at completion, you're more likely to be happy all around.

The other thing about builders is - they more often than not know bupkis about chemistry.

Maddie

 

[tfp_fan]

• Stacked stone on spillway and other areas is hard to keep clean from waterline scale, evaporation, and efflorescence
• 7 returns is a lot for your size pool. 3-4 is all that is needed.
• Cyclone prefilter is a waster of money for most people
• three 9" steps are fine. What is the length of the first step? Will it take an adult two steps or three steps forward before the next step?
• Put contrasting edge tile on the edge of the steps so it is clearly visible that the steps are non-standard
• IntelliCenter is modular and expandable so you don't need to figure out everything you need now
• Bubbler is up to you
• Having drains or suction ports is nice to have at times although not mandatory. I would not make a big deal if the builder wants them in.
• You don't need to put in landscape lights now but plan for it by putting PVC conduit around the grounds so you can easily pull low voltage cables to the light locations. That way you don't need to dig up the area later.

Thank you, @ajw22 , for your great comments. Regarding the 1st step, the builder hasn't given me its dimensions except its area (26 sq ft). However, I guess the length is ~2.5'.

 

[tfp_fan]

I agree with YippeeSkippy on the pool cooler. I should have done that myself. I have the same depth profile you do, 3.5-5. I have decided that on my next pool, I would do a minimum depth of 4' in the shallow end and probably a sport pool profile, where it is deepest in the middle and shallower on the ends. Do like a 4-6-4.5. I will say, 5' is a little shallow when doing a cannonball. I bump my backside when I do that.

If you are wanting to control landscape lighting and other stuff with the Intellicenter, I would suggest getting the i10 version, as it comes with the maximum amount of relays and that leaves you the most flexibility. The cost shouldn't be much more than the i8.

For the lights, I don't think the Microbrites have the intensity/output that the Intellibrites do, so that may require additional lights.

Make the equipment pad as large as you possibly can. If you think you might want to add the cooler in the future, make sure you leave room for that. I think those things are like 40" in diameter or something like that, it's been a little bit since I've looked. Homerun everything back to the pool pad. All skimmers, drains, returns, etc, should be run back, so that you could isolate that line, should something happen to it, and not have to affect the rest of the pool functions. I didn't see it called out but only Jandy Never Lube valves, no ball valves.

Bubblers won't really help with the water temp on the first step. The water on that step will get warm. My tanning ledge water was significantly warmer than the rest of the pool. I think that might have been the biggest contributor to my pool temps getting so warm. The bubblers are fun to play with though. Especially when you crank the pump speed up and let them rip! The youngun's that we had in the pool this year loved when I would do that. I tend to use my bubblers for a nice soothing noise, while I'm drinking my coffee on the patio.

--Jeff

@Turbo1Ton Jeff, thank you very much for your great comments. Regarding the valves, the builder has "Pentair ComPool 2-way, 3-way, & checkvalve" in the proposal. Do you mean to use Jandy valves instead of Pentair?

 

[mihzyd777]

Thank you, @jimmythegreek, for your great comments on pre filter, robot, returns, and the depth. OK, I will keep the 6' as the deep end and won't change it to 5' (the reason I wanted to change to 5' was I thought the pool didn't have the sufficient length (it is 34-foot long) to have the gradual depth change from 3.5 to 6). About suction port, you recommend to have the suction ports but no main drain, don't you? I am asking to know if I understood correctly.

My last pool was 33' ft and was 6' deep and it was perfect. Moved to new home and now building another kids are older now and getting crazy and love diving and jumping in so new pool is 38' ft long and will be 8 ft. Deep.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

@Turbo1Ton Jeff, thank you very much for your great comments. Regarding the valves, the builder has "Pentair ComPool 2-way, 3-way, & checkvalve" in the proposal. Do you mean to use Jandy valves instead of Pentair?

Sorry TFP, I missed the Pentair valves callout in the list. Pentair are fine. They are both serviceable. I would also check on the compool deal. That looks to be some type of automation device. Might just be what the PB refers to the automated valves, but better to make sure.

My pool length is roughly 35' and the depth change is barely noticeable.

--Jeff