Advice for long-running SLAM process

[Jinky]

Hello everybody! New poster here... I stumbled into this great forum while looking for a way to turn my in-ground swamp ecosystem back into a swimming pool. I've been following the SLAM process for a little over 4 weeks. I've been maintaining a shock level of FC the entire time, brushing a few times a week and have had my pool sweep running during the day.

The first week my cartridge filter needed to be cleaned every few hours, transitioning to roughly every day for the 2nd-3rd week and is lasting the whole week or more at this point.

At this point the pool is clear of all leaf debris and is a cloudy grey/white. I can just barely make out the third step. It seems to be clearing up VERY slowly and I'm still adding 2-3 gallons of 10% chlorine every day.

I have three questions:

1. Is it normal for the process to take this long? I've easily dumped over 100 gallons of 10% chlorine since I started this process, and the visibility is only about a third of the way down to the deep end (8'). Will this take another month+ and another 100+ gallons of chlorine?
2. I'm wondering if the dead algae is too fine for my filter to pick up? Is there anything I can do to expedite the filtering process?
3. I currently have my SWG system shut down since there's no salt in the pool. Would it be a good idea to bring my salt level up to 3000ppm and use the SWG's super-chlorinate mode to aid in the chlorination process? It sure would be nice to not have to keep dumping so much store-bought chlorine into the pool.

My most recent test readings from my TF-100 are:
pH: 7.5
FC: 15.5
CC: 1
CYA: 30
CH: 225
TA: 120

I would appreciate any insight. Thanks!

 

[kimkats]

You are on the right track. If your pool was a true eco-system then it is normal for it to take this long to clear. It took quite a bit more time to turn into a swamp so.....If you can take and share a pic it will help us know just have far along you are.

Kim

 

[Jinky]

I think my pool certainly did qualify as an ecosystem! There were mosquito larvae, backswimmers, dragonfly nymphs (ewww), and lots of birds hanging around pooping everywhere. I'm happy to say that all the insects have been dead and gone for a few weeks and the birds have stopped coming to the buffet.

Here are some pics of the current state:



The main pool stairs:


... and the hot tub:

 

[kimkats]

See that blue??? That tells you that you are on the down side of the SLAM! Now it is keeping the filter working with the support of the higher FC.

Kim

 

[duraleigh]

How many times have you cleaned the cartridge filter since you began? What is the current psi?

 

[setsailsoon]

Jinky,
Congrats on getting the swamp looking this good. If you're not seeing much improvement day to day I'm inclined to go down the route Dave is asking about. Looks like the particles are large enough that you should filter them out quickly. Here are my thoughts:

• Are you running the pump 24/7 and are you running it on high speed? If not, please do so.
• Please track your filter pressure right after cleaning and right before you clean. Could be your filter cartridge needs a deep clean and/or acid clean. If the filter is not plugged the pressure should drop significantly after cleaning and then gradually increase. If it goes right up you need to clean more frequently. If the pressure goes up quickly and runs most of the day that way you could be bypassing internally which doesn't really do any good. If your pressure never goes up you may have a tear in the membrane or it may not be sealing properly.
• Sounds like you're on top of your SLAM but are you checking FC sufficiently to be sure you have no excursions below SLAM level? The fact your pool does not have green color indicates you're probably not going too low any of the time but I just want to be sure.
• Take a sample in a quart jar and let it settle for a few hours. If the sample clears up and the suspended particles sink to the bottom it may be quicker to do this with your pool and manually vacuum to waste then complete your SLAM. Do the test though as stopping a SLAM is not the normal way to recover and can cause a rebound. Regardless of how much better this makes your pool look definitely restart the SLAM immediately after vacuuming and complete the SLAM per ALL of the tfp requirements for completion

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[Jinky]

Thanks for the input Dave & Chris!

I've been running my filter pump on high speed (it's only a single speed pump) 24/7 for the past 4-5 weeks. I have the electricity bill to prove it!

I haven't been keeping track of my filter cartridge cleanings, but I would estimate that I've cleaned them about 20 times in the past month, mostly in the first 2-3 weeks. I believe the baseline on my filter is supposed to be 20 psi. At this moment, the pressure is about 21 psi. My goal is always to clean the filters at about 24 psi (20 + 20%), In the beginning of this process my filter would go from 20 psi to almost 30 psi in an hour or two. It got to where I was afraid to leave the cartridges in overnight or while I was at work, so I left the filter running with no cartridges when I wasn't around to clean them.

A few weeks ago I soaked the filters overnight in water & dishwasher detergent. That seemed to pull a lot of crud out of them and they lasted much longer after that. Just in case, I ordered new cartridges from Ebay and have been swapping those back and forth with the old cartridges after each cleaning.

For the past two weeks, I've only been cleaning the filters on the weekends at about 23-24 psi. They're definitely picking up something because quite a bit of light grey silt material washes away. The pressure always reads 19-20psi when I put the cleaned cartridges back in. I've been running my pool sweep during the day with the idea that it'll help stir up the sediment to be picked up by the skimmer faster.

I've been taking FC & CC measurements at least 3 times a day for the past 3 weeks (I didn't get my TF-100 until then). There was one time in those 3 weeks when my FC dropped below SLAM level overnight (only by .5 ppm), but I brought it right back up and have maintained FC well above shock level since then.

Chris, your jar sample test is a good idea. I just took a sample, but the water in the jar looks reasonably clear to begin with. I'll check it again in the morning when the sun comes up again to see if there's sediment on the bottom.

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks for the input Dave & Chris!

I've been running my filter pump on high speed (it's only a single speed pump) 24/7 for the past 4-5 weeks. I have the electricity bill to prove it!

I haven't been keeping track of my filter cartridge cleanings, but I would estimate that I've cleaned them about 20 times in the past month, mostly in the first 2-3 weeks. I believe the baseline on my filter is supposed to be 20 psi. At this moment, the pressure is about 21 psi. My goal is always to clean the filters at about 24 psi (20 + 20%), In the beginning of this process my filter would go from 20 psi to almost 30 psi in an hour or two. It got to where I was afraid to leave the cartridges in overnight or while I was at work, so I left the filter running with no cartridges when I wasn't around to clean them.

A few weeks ago I soaked the filters overnight in water & dishwasher detergent. That seemed to pull a lot of crud out of them and they lasted much longer after that. Just in case, I ordered new cartridges from Ebay and have been swapping those back and forth with the old cartridges after each cleaning.

For the past two weeks, I've only been cleaning the filters on the weekends at about 23-24 psi. They're definitely picking up something because quite a bit of light grey silt material washes away. The pressure always reads 19-20psi when I put the cleaned cartridges back in. I've been running my pool sweep during the day with the idea that it'll help stir up the sediment to be picked up by the skimmer faster.

I've been taking FC & CC measurements at least 3 times a day for the past 3 weeks (I didn't get my TF-100 until then). There was one time in those 3 weeks when my FC dropped below SLAM level overnight (only by .5 ppm), but I brought it right back up and have maintained FC well above shock level since then.

Chris, your jar sample test is a good idea. I just took a sample, but the water in the jar looks reasonably clear to begin with. I'll check it again in the morning when the sun comes up again to see if there's sediment on the bottom.

Jinky,

Thanks for the update and great effort! I'd check the OCLT test to see if you have any active algae. It sounds to me you've probably killed the algae and you have a fine silt from all the muck that must have accumulated or a precipitate from all the bird poop and who knows what was in the pool previously. If you pass the OCLT test and the sediment test works you may give the manual vacuum a try. If you pass OCLT and the jar test fails I'd consider a clarifier. If you use a clarifier and it helps I'd still continue with the SLAM afterward just to be absolutely certain, hopefully you'll pass quickly after you clarify the water and you'll be on the easy, normal, cheap, crystal clear, sparkly water tfp style!

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[BattleOfYakima]

It is my observation that while some people have luck with clarifiers (and I'm happy for them!) most TFP members that have tried clarifiers have reported setbacks.

The grey is likely smallest organics and mostly dead algae, which will all filter out in time. Maintain CYA and FC. If it has been over a month since FC was under 10, consider letting it drift down under 10 to check PH and adjust to 7.2, then continue SLAM. Consider cleaning cartridge with TSP as described here. Skip no steps. Ask all questions before you begin.

Does your pump/filter have an option to vacuum to waste instead of to the cartridge?

If so, you can read this next bit, if not, skip it.
If your pool owner patience is at its last straw, I personally would suggest (notice I said I and not TFP) researching here on TFP something called FLOC or flocculant which is an ENTIRELY OPTIONAL chemical additions that CAN do something called Flocculation which is a fancy way of saying it CAN make all your floating particles glob up and sink to the pool floor for a vac to waste. Please again note that I would only even suggest this if you're 100% certain you can vac to waste, that you've got your chemistry perfect, that you are passing the OCLT, and that you are willing to accept any consequences and setbacks that may occur from using something that is not part of the TFP proven practices. I only even suggest it because I have seen it help in cases where the Pool Owner truly understands TFP, where their filter is working, where they are seeing progress constantly, but it is dragging out past a month due to undersized filter.

 

[duraleigh]

Use of flocs and/or clarifiers is certainly your choice but it is not part of the SLAM procedure. Thousands and thousands of pools across the country are cleared by following the SLAM......nothing else needed.

You are certainly in the end stages of a SLAM and I can provide no insight whatsoever as to why your pool has not cleared.....most SLAMs are about 10 days or so.

If it was my pool, I would not be interested in adding more ingredients to your pool water. Far, far too many pools get cleared each season by following the SLAM procedure correctly......nothing is required except a properly functioning circulatory system and SLAM value chlorine

 

[BattleOfYakima]

Clarification to my last post -All your vac should be to filter as usual during and after the slam. My mention of vac to waste was only following any floc treatment you may decide to perform, which again is totally optional. Following SLAM to the letter in all regards, FC, brushing, 24/7 run time, cleaning cart at 20% above clean psi, cleaning the cart further if needed, etc. must eventually clear the pool as long as everything is working.

I wonder... does your cart still have the horizontal bands or are they long gone?

 

[ant 83]

I currently have my SWG system shut down since there's no salt in the pool. Would it be a good idea to bring my salt level up to 3000ppm and use the SWG's super-chlorinate mode to aid in the chlorination process? It sure would be nice to not have to keep dumping so much store-bought chlorine into the pool.

It should be noted that the liquid chlorine you've been adding leaves salt behind. The numbers are for every 10FC, 16.5 salt comes along for the ride. So, roughly speaking, you've add somewhere between 550-600ppm salt already. There may have been a residual amount of salt in the pool back with the dragon fly nymphs as well.

TFP doesn't recommend using SWG during slam. I think mainly, is that it takes too long to produce the chlorine, and TFP folks want you to stay on top of things.

But if it were my pool in your situation that your at now, I'd fire the thing up. The chlorine it produces is lower cost than bleach, especially if you already have the equipment. I do however think you have more salt in the pool than zero, anyway.

 

[setsailsoon]

Use of flocs and/or clarifiers is certainly your choice but it is not part of the SLAM procedure. Thousands and thousands of pools across the country are cleared by following the SLAM......nothing else needed.

You are certainly in the end stages of a SLAM and I can provide no insight whatsoever as to why your pool has not cleared.....most SLAMs are about 10 days or so.

If it was my pool, I would not be interested in adding more ingredients to your pool water. Far, far too many pools get cleared each season by following the SLAM procedure correctly......nothing is required except a properly functioning circulatory system and SLAM value chlorine

Dave,

Good points you make and duly noted. I wouldn't even think about it except he seems to have taken waaay longer than most. I've never had to use anything except tfp on my pool but I've used classifiers for industrial water purification as a last resort when the system had an upset. Properly used they worked well for me and they are filtered out so no concern about long term exposure. We tried alum and other floc agents and they worked also but came with another whole host of issues to keep the chemical plant down stream of us running.

Thanks for your comments as always!

Chris

 

[needsajet]

I'll just chip in with my (minimal) experience with clarifiers when my pool was brand new. The 'natural' ones (crab shell based, polychite, etc.) did not work noticeably for me. The chemical type worked somewhat, known as polyDAC [edit polyDADMAC], chemical name something like 'poly-diallylmethylammonium chloride'. The key with either type is to use to the correct amount. Extra will not help, and will hinder success if too much extra is used. If I remember right, pH needs to be in the correct range for the product.

I agree with the above though. The filter will do it, but do make sure the filter is working at its best (sounds like you have that covered).

Given the length of the SLAM, and all your great efforts, I would also try the suggestion mentioned above, to let my FC drop below 10 for a day or two and during that time, adjust pH down to 7.2, just to find out if that changes the cloudiness.

 

[Jinky]

Thank for all the input!

I'll give an update on where my pool is at since last weekend. The water is still cloudy, though there is some very slight improvement to the clarity. I can see the pebbles in the third step now, which wasn't true last weekend. I can now see a hint of the fourth step if the light is just right. So... I estimate I gained about 6-9 more inches of clarity in a week.

My pool passed the OCLT on Sunday and my last CC reading from today was .5, so I suppose that means that all the algae is dead. With that, I've passed two of the three SLAM complete conditions with my pool still not being clear.

The results of the jar settlement test I did last weekend were negative. After two days, there was no sign of particles settled on the bottom of the jar. As some suggested, I also dosed the pool with clarifier (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064E8BL6) on Tuesday and Wednesday. I'm not sure if the gains in clarity I have are due to the clarifier or just from a week more of filtering.

Unfortunately, my pump doesn't have a vacuum to waste option so I would need to rent a waste pump or hire a pool doctor to go the floc route.

Thanks to ant 83 for letting me know about the salt contained in liquid chlorine. I tested my salt and discovered that it's already at 2870. I guess I don't need to add the 720 pounds of salt I bought. Oops... I just turned on super-chlorinate mode to see if that can save me some money on buying chlorine.

One thing I found somewhat surprising is that the pressure on my filter didn't go up very much after running all week. It was barely up to 21. I had the brand-new cartridges I got a few weeks ago in the filter, and they were quite dirty when I pulled them out this morning. Very noticeably discolored with dead algae & whatnot. As I've been doing, I rotated in my original filter cartridges. With a pool this dirty, should I have expected the pressure to go up faster? Maybe the new cartridges can hold a lot of debris?

Unless I'm missing something, it looks like the only other suggestion here I haven't tried is to lower FC & fix the pH.

 

[BattleOfYakima]

Duraleigh may have better advice. Otherwise, stay the course.

Now that you've passed OCLT you have the low risk option to let FC drop under 10, test and adjust PH if needed, then resume SLAM.

On the cartridge changing frequency, once you finish clearing the pool, if you barely use your pool and don't get much debris blown in, you'll clean it maybe once a month. More use and more debris would be more frequently, but almost always still weeks. In your situation, I've seen a few days to a couple weeks. Some people have better results doing a vac each or every other day. Others brush the times a day. All try to keep filtering 24/7 and keep shock FC per current cya ([FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]).

Personally, I'd only be using my newest cart until cleared, but as far as I know, as long as your horizontal bands are intact, your pleats don't have holes or buildup blocking flow, and you've cleaned the cart correctly, then age alone doesn't diminish performance significantly.

Congratulations on passing OCLT!

 

[needsajet]

I don't recall your mix of inlets (skimmer(s) / main drain), but anything you can do to get more dust through the filter the better. The Polaris should be stirring everything up, but just in case this is a possibility, thought I'd mention it. If someone uses skimmers only, sometimes the cloudier deeper water isn't finding it's way to the filter so well.

 

[CavVet]

I've seen those pressure gauges either...1. Fail altogether, or 2. Get debris in them causing faulty readings.
It's quite possible the slow process of clearing dead algae is due to infrequent filter cleaning. You might be waiting for the pressure to build to clean them, when a more aggressive approach is due.
If it were me, I'd clean every 2-3 days and take daily pictures of the same spot in the pool (steps) to document clarity progress. if you see improvement, might try every 1-2 days.
Lastly, (and most unlikely) verify you aren't bypassing your filters in anyway. Recirculating unfiltered water through back into the pool defeates your purpose.
Good luck and keep going!