About to fill/balance a new spa...

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tfpusername

tfpusername

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Apr 23, 2017
109
Las Vegas
I’ve read the “Spa & Hot Tub Maintenance A Basic Guide” guide, but still have a few questions…

I have a single person 150g indoor hot tub (w/ ionizer). I will be the only bather. The goal is to use the bare minimum amount of chlorine, since I'd like to use it for daily therapy.

Given the unique situation, the guy at my local spa store said that once I get the ph balanced, all I need to do is add a small amount of chlorine after each use, then let the filtration cycle/ionizer do its thing. 24 hours later the chlorine will be low, but safe to soak in one more time (after which I will add another X amount of chlorine). I also plan on draining/refilling once every few weeks (since it’s such a small tub).

Is this going to work? And the 3 follow up questions…

1.) Am I using muriatic acid to lower the PH? I heard it’s not safe to use in spas? And what am I using to raise PH?
2.) Can I use the same liquid chlorine I use in my pool (diluted maybe?) or do I have to use bleach?
3.) Do I need to use dichlor (trichlor)? I’m pretty sure I read somewhere NOT to use dichlor (trichlor?) or it would void the warranty? Does the CYA even matter for my indoor situation? This is the stuff I use in my pool, is it safe to use in my new hot tub ? (https://www.amazon.com/Rx-Clear-Stabilized-Bactericide-Disinfectant/dp/B00OM8E7LE/)

Thanks
 
1. Muriatic acid is safe to use in spa. Similar to pools, treat the chemical with care, wear PPE (gloves and goggles are a good idea) and don't spill it on pool/spa surfaces. It's good practice to dilute in a large bucket and gradually pour in while water is circulating.

2. Liquid chlorine is bleach, like the exact same chemical at different concentrations. I use pool-grade liquid chlorine in my spa since it's available at higher concentrations and I don't have to worry about laundry additives, but many spa owners use "bleach" as well.

3. You should typically use dichlor only initially to build a reserve of CYA (30 ppm) and then switch to liquid chlorine (bleach). In your indoor spa, I expect that CYA is still useful but I'm not 100% sure. I don't think it can hurt, though.

Have you read the guide on how to use chlorine in your spa? How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?
 
bredwrd said:
It's good practice to dilute in a large bucket and gradually pour in while water is circulating.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar when it comes to Spas, but for pools never do this. Adds another chance for spillage and getting the acid on you. Just pour in a pencil size stream at the pool return.

I would think for a Spa I would dilute the acid with water in an original acid jug and then be able to add larger quantities of the dilute acid.
 
I'd imagine that the rationale for spas is that with a much smaller volume of water, it's more important to add acid at a lower rate. A typical amount to add to a spa could be 30 mL, or maybe 100 mL if trying to lower TA after initial fill.

In any case, I don't personally see much of a risk of pouring such a small amount into a large bucket. Diluting in advance is an interesting idea, but then you have to mess around with a funnel into the acid jug, which seems more error prone than just dumping a shot glass into a 5-gallon bucket.
 
Ok thanks for the info, I will use that dichlor stuff I linked to raise my CYA to 20ppm (can anyone further explain exactly how it benefits an indoor spa?), and muriatic acid at very slow poor (I assume Borax to raise it)?

> "just dumping a shot glass into a 5-gallon bucket."

Wait is there any reason why I can't just poor the shot glass directly into the spa (far from the intake/filter)?

As for chlorine, this is the "regular" bleach I have on hand (it says 7.5% Sodium Hypochlorite 92.5% "other ingredients").

Amazon.com: Clorox Disinfecting Bleach, Regular - 81 Ounce Bottle : Health & Household

Buy Clorox Disinfecting Bleach, Regular - 81 Ounce Bottle on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders
www.amazon.com

This is the only brand I can get delivered cheap, so I hope the "Color Max Technology" isn't a deal breaker. It's unopened, but also expired by a year... it should still "work" (just may require more) right?
 
Go to Home Depot and get some liquid chlorine. The Clorormax can foam and mess up your filter. And if a year old, it might be 2 or 3% strength.

A small amount of CYA dramatically reduces the harshness of the chlorine.
 
bredwrd said:
I'd imagine that the rationale for spas is that with a much smaller volume of water, it's more important to add acid at a lower rate. A typical amount to add to a spa could be 30 mL, or maybe 100 mL if trying to lower TA after initial fill.

In any case, I don't personally see much of a risk of pouring such a small amount into a large bucket. Diluting in advance is an interesting idea, but then you have to mess around with a funnel into the acid jug, which seems more error prone than just dumping a shot glass into a 5-gallon bucket.
Click to expand...

Some comments about acid

1) Never add water to acid. Never. You need to add acid to water. So if somebody gets the bright idea to dilute what is in the acid jug you bought, do not add water to the jug of acid, unless you want to get acid all over you. Mixing acid with water is highly exothermic - it gets hot. If you add water to acid, you form an extremely concentrated solution of acid initially and the solution may boil very violently, splashing concentrated acid. If you add acid to water, the solution that forms is very dilute and the small amount of heat released is not enough to vaporize and spatter it. You can remember this by using "Do like ya oughta, acid to wata". If you want a jug of diluted acid, you need to add the acid to a bucked of water, and then add it back to the jug(s) - why would you do this?

2) If you have acid in a jug, you still need to pour it into something to measure it, so you are not going to be pouring it directly into the pool anyway.

3) For my pool I use an old 1 quart wide mouth Nalgene bottle. I pour the acid amount I need into the bottle to measure, and then I pour from the bottle directly into my pool, slowly, in front of the running return.

4) For my hot tub, I have clear cups that are marked in 1oz increments. If fill one up to 4oz with water, and then add acid to the mark I need (I am usually adding between 1 and 2 oz to my tub). I then pour that into the tub with the jets running.
 
If you want a jug of diluted acid, you need to add the acid to a bucked of water, and then add it back to the jug(s) - why would you do this?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if this is in direct response to something I said, but I wouldn't want a jug of diluted acid. I would simply dilute the acid before pouring it in, which allows the acid, particularly if it's a large dose, to be added at a more gradual rate. Unnecessary? Probably. Dangerous? Doubtfully.
 
bredwrd said:
I'm not sure if this is in direct response to something I said, but I wouldn't want a jug of diluted acid. I would simply dilute the acid before pouring it in, which allows the acid, particularly if it's a large dose, to be added at a more gradual rate. Unnecessary? Probably. Dangerous? Doubtfully.
Click to expand...


You said "Diluting in advance is an interesting idea, but then you have to mess around with a funnel into the acid jug"

I know you were not saying you wanted to do it, but you did say it was an interesting idea. I just wanted to call our that it is not a good idea.
 

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phonedave said:
Some comments about acid

1) Never add water to acid. Never. You need to add acid to water. So if somebody gets the bright idea to dilute what is in the acid jug you bought, do not add water to the jug of acid, unless you want to get acid all over you. Mixing acid with water is highly exothermic - it gets hot. If you add water to acid, you form an extremely concentrated solution of acid initially and the solution may boil very violently, splashing concentrated acid. If you add acid to water, the solution that forms is very dilute and the small amount of heat released is not enough to vaporize and spatter it. You can remember this by using "Do like ya oughta, acid to wata". If you want a jug of diluted acid, you need to add the acid to a bucked of water, and then add it back to the jug(s) - why would you do this?

2) If you have acid in a jug, you still need to pour it into something to measure it, so you are not going to be pouring it directly into the pool anyway.

3) For my pool I use an old 1 quart wide mouth Nalgene bottle. I pour the acid amount I need into the bottle to measure, and then I pour from the bottle directly into my pool, slowly, in front of the running return.

4) For my hot tub, I have clear cups that are marked in 1oz increments. If fill one up to 4oz with water, and then add acid to the mark I need (I am usually adding between 1 and 2 oz to my tub). I then pour that into the tub with the jets running.
Click to expand...
As a teacher of middle school chemistry, I use a rhyme to remember which to add to which, since a year down the road, you might forget. Do as you oughta, add acid to water. (It of course applies to bases also.)

I have a bunch of 2 oz and 3 oz clear plastic travel bottles with a flip cap (for shampoo, etc). For my 370 gal spa, I'm considering putting muratic acid in the 2 oz bottles (1/2 oz equating to a drop in pH of .2 w/ 20%) and bleach in 3 oz bottles (equating to a single dose of 6.3 ppm w/ 10%). I've not yet to use either, but the thought of pouring from a one gallon bottle seems troublesome - and I'd like to do it as infrequently as possible. For these times, I can get out the gloves, funnel, etc. But for late at night after a soak, I want a simple pouring method. Anyone do this - or have better containers? I'm only using bleach once a week as shock and using MPS (w/ Nature2 + ozone + UV) the rest of the time.
 
 
contentedPilgrim said:
That looks perfect... a bit pricey (as was the hot tub), but I like. Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

Cheaper options than a food safe one designed for transporting liquor

For existing containers.


One that is cheap and can actually measure different amounts

Amazon.com: CONTAINER MFG. Series 1000 Tip-N-Measure Bottle 16oz : Home & Kitchen

Buy CONTAINER MFG. Series 1000 Tip-N-Measure Bottle 16oz: Kitchen & Dining - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
 
phonedave said:
Cheaper options than a food safe one designed for transporting liquor

For existing containers.


One that is cheap and can actually measure different amounts

Amazon.com: CONTAINER MFG. Series 1000 Tip-N-Measure Bottle 16oz : Home & Kitchen

Buy CONTAINER MFG. Series 1000 Tip-N-Measure Bottle 16oz: Kitchen & Dining - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for the alternative links. I already ordered the set of two (original link) for $20. Since the Amazon one you linked to has $6 shipping ($14 total) and I need two (chlorine + muratic acid) it'll work out cheaper in the end for the set of two. The other one that works with existing bottles and measures looks like a good option as well. I like that the ones I ordered come with its own container and is squat (stable). They also appear to have gradations for measuring smaller amounts. If not, I'll use a sharpie.
 
contentedPilgrim said:
Thanks for the alternative links. I already ordered the set of two (original link) for $20. Since the Amazon one you linked to has $6 shipping ($14 total) and I need two (chlorine + muratic acid) it'll work out cheaper in the end for the set of two. The other one that works with existing bottles and measures looks like a good option as well. I like that the ones I ordered come with its own container and is squat (stable). They also appear to have gradations for measuring smaller amounts. If not, I'll use a sharpie.
Click to expand...

Glad it worked out. The point is, these bottles are nothing new. You find them all over the place, especially in thing like fuel additives and 2-cycle oil, but there are even mouthwash bottles that use them. If they were that expensive, then the price of the products would reflect that. You can get cheap "regular" dispenser bottles all over the place. The "perfect pour" are nicer one designed to be used as a flask for alcohol, so they are sturdier, food safe (I hope), and have a snazzy marketing campaign. All of which make them more expense, and none of which is necessary for dispensing bleach or acid.
 
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