A few Qs on how to Close/Winterize/Blow Out Paramount In Floor Cleaning System?

[k.alexander]

I have inground cement pool. It has a Paramount In Floor Cleaning System, with a number of in-floor nozzles that pop-out rotating and blowing air/cleaning, and a dome canister for the 6 Port Water Valve in the grassy area on the deck.
It's my first year, and I want to make sure we close the pool properly. I've read the instructions from Paramount, which frankly leave much to be desired in terms of information and clarity. Can someone answer a few questions for me.

The pop-out nozzles are on the bottom of the pool, but I also have one on each of the steps of the pool and another one that's on a little sitting/ledge area, on the other side of the pool, that's also close to the top of the water line.
I have someone coming to help me close the pool but it's the same people who opened it, and they were clueless regarding the Paramount system on opening, so I want to make sure we close it right.

Per their instructions, I've drained water from the pool, just below the decorative tile line that runs around the perimeter of the pool. I seem to remember that the pop-out nozzle on the top step and on that sitting/ledge area were removed for the winter and I reinserted them when I was opening the pool.
Q1: Do I need to drain the pool below the top step and sitting ledge area? i.e. Do I need to make sure that the highest pop-out nozzles are above the water line?
Q2: Do I need to remove these nozzles (again top step and that sitting ledge shelf)? Why? What's the point?
Q3: I've read Paramount's instructions on closing. As I understand it, we basically have to blow out each of the 6 ports on the water valve one by one--correct? Then do we also blow out the center port which is the water flow IN valve? Do we blow that one out from the water valve towards the pump or from the pump towards the water valve?
Q4: Is that the correct order: blow the 6 OUT ports first, then blow the 1 center IN port?
Q5: Do I need to add antifreeze anywhere to the Paramount canister area?

Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks!

 

[Catanzaro]

Below is some information on the Paramount Systems!

Paramount System - Plugs, etc.	Safety cover and water levels
	How late do you close in New England? Was just wondering how late others close in the New England area. This is only my second closing with the new pool. At some point I might take over the closing myself, However where the pool is only 1 year old and has a In floor cleaning system I am having the PB do the closings for now. We... www.troublefreepool.com

 

[k.alexander]

Thanks for the reply. I'm still a bit confused. I called Paramount and a very helpful tech support person there suggested that I remove and plug any nozzle heads that are above the "water freeze line;" further suggesting that I also consider spraying anti-freeze into those lines.

Question (probably dumb, so pre-facing with that -- what is and how do I know what is my water freeze line?
Any other tips on winterizing the Paramount system?

 

[Pool_Medic]

I use duck plugs and don’t lower water, just be sure you get air out of all six lines once pop ups are removed.

 

[ajw22]

Question (probably dumb, so pre-facing with that -- what is and how do I know what is my water freeze line?

Look at the depth on the Frost Line Map.

Frost Line Map

• ajw22
• Oct 21, 2019

Frost Line Map

 

[k.alexander]

I use duck plugs and don’t lower water, just be sure you get air out of all six lines once pop ups are removed.

Sorry, talk to me like a 1 year old (my first year with this, any, pool
1. So you're saying blow all six lines out--I get that.
2. But when you say "once pop ups are removed" -- are you talking about the pop up nozzles that are in the pool? Which ones to you remove? Top step(s)? Obviously no one is diving into the pool to remove the ones on the pool floor. I assume that I need to remove the top step pop up nozzle, and plug that and the six water valve lines once I blow them all out..?
3. Lastly, I assume that after I blow out all the lines I also have to blow out the center/IN port of the water valve?

 

[Catanzaro]

If you have the paramount system, the pop up heads are on the floor all over the pool, a self cleaning type of system. You are technically removing the water out of the lines with air. The blow through plugs (although expensive) are designed for the paramount system and to be used in conjunction with an air compressor. Is is like clearing the main drain and creating an "air lock", and basically the same concept.

Why a person would go down and try to remove the heads is beyond me. Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Sorry, talk to me like a 1 year old (my first year with this, any, pool
1. So you're saying blow all six lines out--I get that.
2. But when you say "once pop ups are removed" -- are you talking about the pop up nozzles that are in the pool? Which ones to you remove? Top step(s)? Obviously no one is diving into the pool to remove the ones on the pool floor. I assume that I need to remove the top step pop up nozzle, and plug that and the six water valve lines once I blow them all out..?
3. Lastly, I assume that after I blow out all the lines I also have to blow out the center/IN port of the water valve?

Are you following this procedure?

http://forms.1paramount.com/products/winter.pdf

Step 9 you blow out the center port after the 6 ports are plugged.

Do you have the special Schrader plugs? Picture of the plug is at Winterizing_Paramount_In-Floor_Cleaning_system

 

[Catanzaro]

I use duck plugs and don’t lower water, just be sure you get air out of all six lines once pop ups are removed.

Why would anyone dive in the cold water to remove the pop ups - Sounds kind of counter productive. The paramount system has there own blow-thru plug with schrader valves, and that is what they are used for.

K.Alexander:

Please confirm that your paramount system is what is shown in the pictures of the links. If so, remove the top and get to the heart of the plumbing and clear the lines this way. Remember that water is entering the system (return side) and spinning the mechanism. So one of the pipes should have been cleared from the equipment pad, or you will be blowing air back towards the filter. The others go straight into the pool. Close as if you are clearing the main drain line and creating an "air lock".

 

[k.alexander]

Yes, I have the Paramount system as shown in the attached links/pdfs. Here's a picture of my water valve from the spring, sorry I don't have a pic of the entire canister, but yes that's what I have.



I just looked at the plugs that I do have, and it looks like I have the regular (circular) plugs, and not the ones where one side is flat. Is that what makes them the special (Schrader) plugs?

I use duck plugs and don’t lower water, just be sure you get air out of all six lines once pop ups are removed.

Sorry, I'm new to this, what's a "duck plug"? Is that a regular plug or is that some special plug?

Why would anyone dive in the cold water to remove the pop ups - Sounds kind of counter productive. The paramount system has there own blow-thru plug with schrader valves, and that is what they are used for.

K.Alexander:

Please confirm that your paramount system is what is shown in the pictures of the links. If so, remove the top and get to the heart of the plumbing and clear the lines this way. Remember that water is entering the system (return side) and spinning the mechanism. So one of the pipes should have been cleared from the equipment pad, or you will be blowing air back towards the filter. The others go straight into the pool. Close as if you are clearing the main drain line and creating an "air lock".

Yes, I have the system shown int he pics and links.
Ok, so "remove the top" is remove the top of the canister of the Paramount system--understood.
"Remember that water is entering the system (return side) and spinning the mechanism." -- as I understand it on my system, the water is entering through the central port and spinning the system where it is being returned to the pool through the six ports that are around the perimeter of the Paramount water valve.
"So one of the pipes should have been cleared from the equipment pad" -- I assume that means that the central port should be cleared by blowing air into it from the main equipment area, i.e. the filter/pump/etc.
"Close as if you are clearing the main drain line and creating an "air lock"." -- again, excuse my ignorance as I'm doing this for the first time/year; and yes I've got pool people coming to help me but I worry that they don't really know this system either. So basically, after I clear the central port (the one that's bringing water to the Paramount water valve) by blowing air into it from the main equipment area; then I should blow each of the six ports and their respective pipes that go to the pool. My only question at this point, is what am I "closing" at that point, each of the six port valves?

Lastly, as I said, I was obviously kidding about diving in and removing the nozzles from the bottom of the pool, but I do have a nozzle on each of the three steps to the pool and another one, about 8" below the now lower water line on a little sitting shelf by the deep end. Do I remove those nozzles and plug them?

 

[ajw22]

Schrader is the air valve in the center of the plug that allows you to plug the port and then blow air through it.

You need...

Paramount Set of Winterizing Plugs (6 Pack) 004-302-1672-00

Paramount winterizing plugs have a new design. These winterizing plugs are for Paramount in floor cleaning systems and come in a six pack.

www.infloorpoolparts.com

 

[ajw22]

So basically, after I clear the central port (the one that's bringing water to the Paramount water valve) by blowing air into it from the main equipment area; then I should blow each of the six ports and their respective pipes that go to the pool. My only question at this point, is what am I "closing" at that point, each of the six port valves?

Please click on THIS LINK —> http://forms.1paramount.com/products/winter.pdf

and read what a Paramount says. You have the process backwards. You plug each of the six ports first with the special plugs and blow air through the plug.

Then in step 9 you blow out the center Port.

 

[Catanzaro]

Thanks Allen. I do not recall if the paramount housing is flush on one side. If so, I am almost positive that the regular round blow-thru plugs may not work. Very simple to do this. Install a schrader blow-thru plug (paramount ones) and use an air compressor to blow air. When you start seeing bubbling on each drain, allow to bubble for 30 seconds or even a minute on low pressure (under 20 psi) and just allow the compressor to run. Remove the air and insert the cap, and now you are done with one of the pop of heads. Air is now trapped in the line. If for any reason you want to be certain, just release air just like you are taking air out of the car tire or bicycle tire. Be careful and do not remove unless you remove the air.

You can then clear that line again so you can get a better understanding of how you are putting air through the system. Think of adding air to a bicycle tire, and the tire is now the plumbing line (the tire is a closed loop), but fills up with air. The line is an open loop and fills up with air. If the air is trapped, water stays out and below the frost line. The shallow end should be easier, unless they are all in the shallow area. The deep end may require the compressor to run a little longer.

Even though the instructions state to remove the modules, I have not seen any pool professionals in my area do this and from what I can gather, many homeowners I have spoken to through the years do not have them removed either. The heads pop up and spin, so low volume of air is best to move slowly through the closing process.

 

[Pool_Medic]

I thought he said he had some returns that were connected to the system. Simply blow all heads until bubbling happens if it’s just an in floor system.

 

[k.alexander]

Yeah I just looked at all the plugs that I have, including the ones I removed from the Paramount canister, and they're all round which is how I remember the holes in the canister, BUT none are Schrader plugs from what I can tell as none of them have a blow-thru on them. Hmm closing folks are coming Wednesday. Any chance this can be done without the Schrader plugs, don't know where I can get 6 Schrader in 24 hrs.

I'm also confused about the how air in an open line does not just escape through the pop-up nozzles that are in the pool? But that's really not important.

I hate to sound like an idiot, but I'm still not sure I'm getting this at all.

 

[Catanzaro]

Blow air through a straw in a cup and hold your finger over it, you will see the water not come back up. When you trap the air in the line, it should not come back towards you, unless there is a leak somewhere. Air will expand when heated and contract when cooled. You could push air through the system if you had the Cyclone (Professional Pool Blower), and then quickly plug each line.

Please note that there are no dumb questions on the forum as we are all constantly learning. What folks are coming Wednesday?

	Blowing Out Main Drain and Air Lock Question Hi everyone. New house has existing pool. Got thru the season great thanks to you guys, now time to close for winter. Plan to do myself and have question about the main drain. I plan to use a compressor to blow out the main drain and then air lock it with the 3 way valve that is in place... www.troublefreepool.com
	Can't blow air into main drain line for closing

 

[ajw22]

The pop up nozzles have a spring. When you blow air through the Schrader valve the nozzle will pop up and release air and water. When you stop blowing air the nozzle will close and you will have an air lock between the nozzle and the plug. Really easy with the right plugs.

What time does FEDEX overnight deliver to you?

 

[k.alexander]

I hired a company to open the pool. They were recommended by some local friends, and honestly they were inexpensive. They're really a husband and wife team that work for a pool company and then do openings/closings on the side--hence they're cheaper. They didn't even notice the Paramount system when opening the pool--granted the pool was very dirty and the Paramount canister was hiding under a bush in a different area from the rest of the equipment. When I called them back, they didn't sound like they knew much about the system and were kind of discouraging me on using it. I basically figured out how to "open" the Paramount system myself.
I've got the same people coming back. Frankly I didn't think it was going to be a big deal or anything overly complicated in terms of closing.

 

[Catanzaro]

Having someone else close the pool is no problem. However, you should watch and learn. They can always come back a second time for the paramount or you can close yourself with the right plugs. You do not have to use the in floor cleaning system, but it should be winterized properly.

 

[k.alexander]

Ok, so last (possibly) unresolved question: Do I remove the pop-up jets from the top step and sitting shelf and plug them with regular winterizing plugs instead?